A disillusioned liberal democrat

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Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
2,153
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Obama's Change reminds me of the change that another great political figure brought the world during the early 1930s....
Please elaborate...if you're capable.

Well FDR did a lot of infrastructure work as Obama put in the stimulus.
And how did that change the world?

Well it help bring the US economy to a stable point. It also gave people more jobs which allowed them to get by. It lead the way for industries to get jump started and then later transfer over to manufacturing war goods for the war in europe.

Now that might not effect the entire world, but it did affect a major part of the western world. If our economy is good, then it should hopefully start spreading out to other nations.
 

Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,181
23
81
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Obama's Change reminds me of the change that another great political figure brought the world during the early 1930s....
Please elaborate...if you're capable.

Well FDR did a lot of infrastructure work as Obama put in the stimulus.

Are you sure the OP wasn't discussing Hitler sarcastically?
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Originally posted by: sportage
Well this is a vent (rant) that should make a lot of here republicans happy.
But as a liberal democrat, it will admit its true that democratic politicians truly believe the government can spend your money better than you can. Nothing has changed in that area.

Case in point... housing bailout and tax relief.
So workers will be getting around $13 a week for a tax break?
Where as folks having mortgage problems can "apply" (or whatever)
for some kind of bank mortgage relief?
And the bottom line? any relief or help will still be at the mercy of the greedy banks.
Don?t fool yourself. Banks will care NOT about your bottom line, only theirs.
So don?t count on much, if you are someone that falls within that ?mortgage crisis? problem area.

The tragedy here is with spending tax dollars on Fannie and Freddie, from the stim/housing package.
What Fannie and Freddie?s do is pay banks 80% on those home foreclosures.
That?s mortgage loan insurance, people.
Why should the banks risk ?working out? terms with the home owner, when the bank
could (and did):
#1 foreclose,
#2 get 80% on that failed loan from Freddie, and
#3 also got the home owners property back.

Now ?that? is a win win win situation for the banks.
Problem was, Fannie and Freddie went belly-up insuring all those failed loans.
And thus, our little saga begins (or began).

Here come your tax dollars to the rescue!!!
Right into Fannie & Freddie?s pocket.
And for what????
To pay those banks, again, their 80% on failed loans.
Win win win is back, Mr banker!
So do you REALLY believe that bank will have ANY desire to work with those ?foreclosure facing? home owners? Hehehe?..hehe
Just another train wreck in the making, funded this time by YOU, the tax payer.

I am now convinced that little if any of this stim package will really help much,
neither will the housing bailout/assistance program, with helping those that need it.

The remedy is simple. But you will never hear it from a democrat in congress.
Simple in that they could easily kill two birds with one stone, as it goes.
How? Simply give everyone a substantial tax relief benefit NOW, and for, say,
the next 12 - 18 months.
If every ?paycheck earning? workers tax holdings was cut by 50%, or better yet 75% for the next 18 months, then everyone could afford to get back on their feet. Folks behind in mortgage payments could afford to catch them up, and everyone else could afford to spend those dollars in truly "stimulating" sales and i.e. the economy.

If working people were given a substantial tax break, then this mortgage
crisis would pretty much cure itself.
That is? those that played by the rules but experienced bumps in the old personal financial road, they would have the money in their pockets to remedy their problem.
And for those that bought beyond their ability to pay in the first place, let them fail.
Government assistance programs will never cure a bad mortgage.
And?
Government assistance programs will never cure a good mortgage.

After all... what ?paycheck earning? folks simply need is "real" tax relief.
Other folks behind in home mortgages, without a job, will never in reality
save their home just by getting some gov assistance.
What they really need is work, plus tax relief on top of that.

But I now realize, and its clear, we will never see a change in that democratic ideology of government knowing best when it comes to spending your tax dollars.

Yes! For the most part we are thrilled a black man has been elected president.
History making, and YOU were there.
But beyond that, not much is going to change.
So, as a liberal democrat, I know most folks will all but have forgotten the GW Bush years, after the next two years has passed. The voters have very short memories. The republicans should have a strong clear shot at regaining power.
That is, if they can put a hold on their right wing nut cases (i.e. Sarah) , airport bathroom visitations, and the Bush-era corruption.

I will wager Newt Gingrich to play a major part in the next election.
And if republicans play their cards right, and smart, they should
have no problems regaining much of the losses during the Bush years.
And I for one, a liberal democrat, will be paying close attention.
Because sadly, it looks like democrats still have not learned their history lesson.
And that is why I vent. Because I?m not a happy tax paying camper, riding on the train wreck express. Especially when the solution is so simple a child could have figured it out.
I thought this new group I elected would know better. Guess not?

I feel your pain. Obama has been a mixed bag so far, and on some issues he's at least as bad as Bush.

But, this approach will get him re-elected, which is when the rubber meets the road. Typically, in a second term a President has a freer hand IF he has a Congress from his party. We may have to wait until the second term, if there is one, to get any bones out of this guy.

Meanwhile, hope he starts giving evidence of having some balls in the next 30-60 days. I'll wait and see....

Color me skeptical.

-Robert

 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Obama's Change reminds me of the change that another great political figure brought the world during the early 1930s....
Please elaborate...if you're capable.

Well FDR did a lot of infrastructure work as Obama put in the stimulus.
And how did that change the world?

As a child you may have played in one of the parks built during the Depression. Also, a lot of guys got menial government jobs and could support themselves and their families until we went to war and a few million of them died so we could be pounding keyboards today, like the monkeys we are. :)

-Robert

 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Andrew1990
Obama's Change reminds me of the change that another great political figure brought the world during the early 1930s....
Please elaborate...if you're capable.

I think Hitler used the word 'Change' as well..
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: winnar111
Chalk up a $533 billion deficit in 2013, according to Zero's own estimates.

Change!

We know how liberal felt about a 500B deficits with republicans in control, how will they feel about 500B deficits with democrats in control?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Ronstang
This just happened to a friend of mine. He is a complete dumbass who I will not defend because he should not have bought the house in the first place. The house was a complete mess structurally and he bought it at the peak of the market. We found upon further inspection once he owned it (I told him NOT to buy it because I could see many hidden problems) we concluded the whole house needed to be redone....I mean stripped of drywall, wiring, plumbing....the whole works. We had to replace so many walls due to poor construction. This house is a shell. It only looks like a house from the outside. You can see the bottom of the roof standing on the bare concrete of the home. The back wall is not even completely sided again so it is open to the elements but hidden by a huge screened in back porch.

The porch collapsed during a storm to the tune of about $35K the insurance company would not cover. During the hurricane the power was out so long the pool turned green and is now a pond. The huge driveway is so cracked and uneven it needs to be replaced, but he knew this when he bought the place and planned on doing it down the road. Basically this property is total loss to anyone but him. It needs to be torn down, bulldozed, and the lot then needs a whole new house built on the site for it to be a usable property.

He got laid off at the end of last year and due to supporting a wife in a different house who refuses to work he could no longer keep up with the $3000 a month mortgage. The bank WOULD not even talk to him. He had a 15 year loan when he should have had a 30 year. If the bank would have simply redid the terms of his loan to 30 years he could have continued to make the payments. They would not even talk to him, nor did they inspect the property which is now basically worthless.

We found out why. Freddie Mac is guaranteeing the loan and reimbursing the bank. So not only do they get to keep the $27K down payment and 2 years worth of mortgage payments to the tune of $3000 a month they get reimbursed from the government. They actually come out AHEAD like he had paid about $60K more for the house than he did. No wonder they wouldn't help him stay in the house. Now the government is going to be stuck with a piece of property that is worthless and he bank makes more money than it would have under normal conditions.

The government is going to take the hit on this, which means you and I are paying for it. My friend was willing to continue making mortgage payments on this dump because he wants the place, and he is the only one that will. A contractor came out to look at the place because he was considering buying it at auction but said there is no point as it needs to be completely razed and the cost is more than the property as an empty lot would be worth.

Dont worry there will be lots of room for cheating with this real estate bailout. If a working couple can afford a house, one of them quit and get the mortgage rewritten to 31% of new income. And the government will pick up a tab on a house that was otherwise affordable.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: extra
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
The republicans think they can spend my money better too. They're both irritating me at the moment-- there is no conservative to vote for.

Bingo... How about some sort of common sense party. Not all government spending is bad but they've both been all over the place. I'd cut all kinds of shit, but I would try to bring in some sort of socialized medicine....

that is not common sense... Just talk to anyone whose kids are on Schip. Or their states version... They treat you like crap. F you in the ass loose your paperwork. Tell you to go wait in line and start over.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: winnar111
Chalk up a $533 billion deficit in 2013, according to Zero's own estimates.

Change!

We know how liberal felt about a 500B deficits with republicans in control, how will they feel about 500B deficits with democrats in control?

The 2010 projected deficit is around 880B. 533 is the low point of Zero's first term.

And here come the tax flipflops:

http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

Obama?s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP).

http://www.reuters.com/article.../idUSTRE51K1ZF20090221

Obama, who promised during his White House campaign to roll back tax cuts on people earning more than $250,000, also plans to boost tax collections from about 16 percent of the economy this year to 19 percent in 2013, the official said, confirming a Washington Post report on Obama's budget proposals for the 2010 fiscal year.



Skyrocketing taxes indeed. McCain was correct.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Excellent post Sportage you have a good grasp off the banking issue and others. I think Working people have always been taxed too high since about 1963. With regards to the tax cut and it helping the economy... Say you just eliminated the SS tax for those under say 50K...I don't think so now. Too late. Business all around them are closing, friends are being laid off, National huge companies are going bankrupt and laying off like GM. People are scared and will save that extra now. Too late. This should have been done 8 months ago.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The economic disaster that's the Bush legacy enabled Obama to win convincingly but it also will be his greatest headache. Unlike the Iraq War which tried our patience after a time this situation with the economy is upon us now and we have very little patience. It's such a mess that there's not going to be any easy fix. No Stimulus Bill authored by either Republicans or Democrats is going to magically solve this problem, we are going to have to deal with the pain and I don't think any of us are really prepared to do that.

He could fix it overnight if he took back all unrighteous gains, personal and otherwise, by war profiteers and robber barons. Including paying off national debt in full! Of course Obama would never do that being bought and sold by the same 'click' as Bush. That's something y'all will never get, it's all about party minutia to most of you, can't see forest for the trees..
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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Originally posted by: gingermeggs
the ultra-liberal is only a stones throw away from full core fascista, thats the next phase. It is destiny and a part of the blame game.
give a liberal some property and they turn fascist, like the ussr did, but hey its the polarization of Caucasian and Asian against Negro and indo, which is on the cards big time......watch Pakistan evolve into majorl war, funny thing will be the USA /Russo allegiance.
White is right!
the pommes started all of this, if the players where smart they would cut the pommy throat first....and yes I am half Irish!
yes it is black and white after all.

You are a blithering idiot.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
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I think disillusioned liberal democrats should get together with all the disillusioned conservative republicans from the last 8 years and form a new party.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Originally posted by: alchemize
I think disillusioned liberal democrats should get together with all the disillusioned conservative republicans from the last 8 years and form a new party.

The disillusionati? ;)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,890
55,152
136
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
The republicans think they can spend my money better too. They're both irritating me at the moment-- there is no conservative to vote for.

Agreed, thanks to the neocons that hijacked the Republican party. Fiscal conservationism is dead for the moment at the federal level. :(

Fiscal conservatism has been dead much much longer than that, and it died because when its actually put into place nobody likes it. What Republican president do you think was the last fiscal conservative? Sure wasn't George HW Bush, sure as HELL wasn't Reagan, who?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
The republicans think they can spend my money better too. They're both irritating me at the moment-- there is no conservative to vote for.

Agreed, thanks to the neocons that hijacked the Republican party. Fiscal conservationism is dead for the moment at the federal level. :(

Fiscal conservatism has been dead much much longer than that, and it died because when its actually put into place nobody likes it. What Republican president do you think was the last fiscal conservative? Sure wasn't George HW Bush, sure as HELL wasn't Reagan, who?
Ike?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,890
55,152
136
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
The republicans think they can spend my money better too. They're both irritating me at the moment-- there is no conservative to vote for.

Agreed, thanks to the neocons that hijacked the Republican party. Fiscal conservationism is dead for the moment at the federal level. :(

Fiscal conservatism has been dead much much longer than that, and it died because when its actually put into place nobody likes it. What Republican president do you think was the last fiscal conservative? Sure wasn't George HW Bush, sure as HELL wasn't Reagan, who?
Ike?

Yeah, Ike's a good choice. So it's only been a good half century or so, longer than most of us have been alive.