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A comparison between the top of the line 20" CRT AND LCD

yhelothar

Lifer
I've been using a refurb P275, like most of you with 21" FD Trinitrons, for about 1/2 year from November. I then had it replaced to a brand new one because I was disappointed with the quality of the refurb. So I'll start off with a comparison between the refurb and new CRT for the large majority of you large CRT owners that have refurbs.

I've went through 4 refurbs before I finally replaced it with a new model, so the issues I'm talking about is not specific to my particular refurb. This issue is actually pretty common on CRTs, when I turn up the brightness and contrast, fine lines/text would become blurry on light colored backgrounds, horizontal lines would split to two distinct lines! I have to set it at 85/35 for contrast/brightness respectively, to get everything sharpened up. On my new P275, it would be sharp all the way up to 100/45, and even up to 100/55, it would just be marginally blurrier. So the comparison between the P275 and 2001FP will use the much more precise brand new P275.

I've never really thought about switching to LCD for serveral reasons. First, the prohibitive price they usually carry. Second, the fact that they are restricted to their native resolution, or else using a non native resolution would result in a blurry image, which is a huge detriment to games and videos.

Although the 2001FP have been offered now at great prices. I got mine for $640 brand new from a member on AT Classifieds after I sold my P275 for $600. My love for games has lusted off in the past few months, so the native resolution problem isnt such a big deal for me anymore.

I received my 2001FP on Wednesday. First thing I noticed after I hooked it up, DVI-D to my 5900 at 1024x768, the non native resolution was very blurry just as anticipated. I set it to the native resolution, 1600x1200, and everything turned razor pixel for pixel sharp. But you can almost say it was too sharp, there is a clear distinction between each pixel, due to the thick black border between each pixel, so it makes the picture very grainy. The colors seem a tad dithered, despite Dells claims that this is a true 24-bit LCD. This is definitely not a problem with LCDs in general, because I own two other 15" LCDs, a BenQ and a Sony, and both doesn't have this problem. So this is a design flaw on Dell's part(or LG Philips since they are the one that made the monitor). Its not noticeable when I sit 2ft away from the monitor, but when I want to get a close look at a few pictures(for photoshop, not pr0n you pervs:evil: ), it becomes a large nuisance.

The viewing angles on the 2001FP are excellent; I don't get the gradient effects I get on my two 15" LCDs. You can almost say it's as good as looking at a CRT. I didn't notice any streaking/ghosting in games, although if I moved a window around slowly, I can see everything blurring and trailing, especially in my pictures slideshow screensaver, when the picture slides onto the screen, the picture would be blurred as it was moving. Not really a big deal. The contrast is exceptional compared to my two other LCDs, the whites rivals the vibrance of my FD Trinitron, something the two LCDs couldn't touch. Although the blacks are a tad lacking, I don't get the deep black I get from the FD Trinitron.

The ability for the 2001FP to rotate to portrait mode is absolutely awesome. Webpages were definitely designed for portrait mode, as the width is usually restricted to or designed for 800 or 1024 pixels. The height of the 2001FP is 1200, so it could accommodate webpages with the height as the width in portrait mode. Web pages are usually also longer than they are wide, which is the prime reason why portrait mode is so great for web browsing. Browsing portrait pictures while the monitor is in portrait mode is a huge improvement from the traditional landscape view. Portrait pictures fill the entire screen now and the entire picture can be viewed at once at twice the size. Rotating the screen is as easy as pushing two keys with the hotkeys manager in nview(nvidia drivers r0x!). Screenshot of my portrait desktop

I deeply miss a very beneficial feature that the P275 was capable up paired up with my dual head nvidia card. I hooked the P275s dual inputs onto the 5900. I set one input as a fullscreen video device. What the fullscreen video device feature on nview does is that it automatically changes the resolution of the screen to the resolution of the video. Videos look much sharper and vibrant when they are using their native resolution; upscaling will never match true native resolutions. Using the full screen video color correction, I increased the contrast to 125%, gamma to 1.31, digital vibrance to a tad lower than the first notch, and I set the image sharpening to half. This made non HD videos look vibrant and much more lifelike, how they look on your standard TV screen. Upscaled videos in comparison are blurry and filled with artifacts. Regrettably, LCDs are limited to one native resolution, so watching non HD videos at their native resolution would be impossible on the 2001FP.

All in all, Ive been enjoying the vibrance of the P275 with the 2001FP, with pixel perfect sharpness that I was not able to get with the P275 at the high vibrance settings. And I was able to throw out those two shoddy red tables that took up a big part of my room with the extra space Ive gained with the LCD.

Pros and Cons of switching from high end CRT to LCD
PROS
Text and fine lines are razor sharp at any brightness level
Ability to rotate the screen to portrait mode
Small footprint
Save money on electricity bill ($10 a year! 😀)

CONS
Colors are dithered when looking at them at <1ft
Confined to one native resolution, detrimental to games and videos
Blacks arent the deep black you can get on the CRT

I hope my guide has helped any of you planning on changing your high end CRT to an LCD or deciding between a high end CRT and an LCD! Good luck on your purchases!



 
Thanks. I am getting a 2001FP from that 40% off $2500 Dell deal and I havn't decided if I am going to keep it or sell it yet. I was looking at the 19" BenQ with 16ms response time, but I'm not sure yet.
 
Great Post!
I actually just fired up my 2001FP tonight. My Sony E540 21" is sitting on the floor next to me as I type this. Unfortunatley my E540 suffers from poor brightness issues at least imo it does, the text is blurry sometimes but for gaming it has been excellent. I hope to give the gaming a whirl tommorrow on the Dell. I'm running this on a 5900se using DVI, running @ 1280x1024(will try native tommorrow). I will withold further comments on the Dell until I have been able to spend more time using it as I'm only about 30 minutes into using this beauty.
 
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Definitely the Dell. Doesn't the BenQ use 1280x1024 res?

yes it does. I have read the 2001f isn't great for gaming. But I was going ot try it out first and if it sucked for it give it to my dad to use for his autoCad and sell the other one or keep mine and use it. From the review they say it has a bad after glow in games from what I hear peiople say it is great.. I guess I will just wait and see. I will just turn the AA down in my games in the future I suppose to get them to run smoothly hehe.
 
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Although the 2001FP have been offered now at great prices. I got mine for $640 brand new from a member on AT Classifieds after I sold my P275 for $600. My love for games has lusted off in the past few months, so the native resolution problem isnt such a big deal for me anymore.

What kind of person spends $700 on LCD and then buys a sub-par video card? Honestly? :|

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've never really thought about switching to LCD for serveral reasons. First, the prohibitive price they usually carry. Second, the fact that they are restricted to their native resolution, or else using a non native resolution would result in a blurry image, which is a huge detriment to games and videos.

How many times do people go out of 1024x1280? How many times do people go out of 1024x768? How many times do people go out of 1600x1200?

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I received my 2001FP on Wednesday. First thing I noticed after I hooked it up, DVI-D to my 5900 at 1024x768, the non native resolution was very blurry just as anticipated. I set it to the native resolution, 1600x1200, and everything turned razor pixel for pixel sharp. But you can almost say it was too sharp, there is a clear distinction between each pixel, due to the thick black border between each pixel, so it makes the picture very grainy. The colors seem a tad dithered, despite Dells claims that this is a true 24-bit LCD.

Wait, the monitor was blurry and the pixels where closer together? What? The pixel on the screen can't move. Explain to me how a dot pitch of 0.255 mm pixel pitch makes thick lines. How would these lines not appear when its blurred? Is the image sharp or grainy? How can it be both? If your colors seem dithered audjust your color temperature.

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I deeply miss a very beneficial feature that the P275 was capable up paired up with my dual head nvidia card. I hooked the P275s dual inputs onto the 5900. I set one input as a fullscreen video device. What the fullscreen video device feature on nview does is that it automatically changes the resolution of the screen to the resolution of the video. Videos look much sharper and vibrant when they are using their native resolution; upscaling will never match true native resolutions. Using the full screen video color correction, I increased the contrast to 125%, gamma to 1.31, digital vibrance to a tad lower than the first notch, and I set the image sharpening to half. This made non HD videos look vibrant and much more lifelike, how they look on your standard TV screen. Upscaled videos in comparison are blurry and filled with artifacts. Regrettably, LCDs are limited to one native resolution, so watching non HD videos at their native resolution would be impossible on the 2001FP.

Yes video are going to look better at their native resolution. If a upscaled video has artifacts its your video card, your computer or something else. Its not because you stretched it. How is it impossible to watch non-HD videos on a 2001? Just make it scale, millions of people do this. What would be the point of divx?

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Pros and Cons of switching from high end CRT to LCD
PROS
Text and fine lines are razor sharp at any brightness level
They don't hurt your eyes
Ability to rotate the screen to portrait mode
Small footprint
Save money on electricity bill ($10 a year! 😀)

CONS
Colors are dithered when looking at them at <1ft
Confined to one native resolution, looks blurry.
Blacks arent the deep black you can get on the CRT

I hope my guide has helped any of you planning on changing your high end CRT to an LCD or deciding between a high end CRT and an LCD! Good luck on your purchases!

Fixed
 
What kind of person spends $700 on LCD and then buys a sub-par video card? Honestly?
You upgrade the monitor once every 5 years or so. You to keep your games running at 1600x1200, you'd have to upgrade your video card yearly.

How many times do people go out of 1024x1280? How many times do people go out of 1024x768? How many times do people go out of 1600x1200?
All the time! You probably don't, since you're so accustomed to using your LCD.

Wait, the monitor was blurry and the pixels where closer together? What? The pixel on the screen can't move. Explain to me how a dot pitch of 0.255 mm pixel pitch makes thick lines. How would these lines not appear when its blurred? Is the image sharp or grainy? How can it be both? If your colors seem dithered audjust your color temperature.
It looks like you have some reading comprehension problems here. I said the LCD is blurry at the non native resolution as I anticipated. What part don't you understand about that?
Color temperature has nothing to do with the dithering :roll:

Yes video are going to look better at their native resolution. If a upscaled video has artifacts its your video card, your computer or something else. Its not because you stretched it. How is it impossible to watch non-HD videos on a 2001? Just make it scale, millions of people do this. What would be the point of divx?
Upscaled videos are always going to look worse than videos running at their native resolution, are you so blided by your LCD fanboyism that you can't see that? Of course a higher resolution is going to pick out the flaws in the low resolution videos.
Did I ever say it's impossible to watch non-HD videos on my 2001FP? Dude you seriously need to get your reading comrephension skills up. All I said that it's impossible get a sharp and defined picture with non hd videos with the 2001fp, because you can't get a sharp picture at the video's native resolution, unlike the CRT.
DivX encoding isn't upscaling:roll:. What DivX does is it determines which pixels change color and only holds data for the pixels that change, thus saving tons of space.

They don't hurt your eyes
Sorry, the comparison was for top of the line CRTs, not your shoddy CRTs that can't sync any higher than 60Hz that you're experienced with. :roll:
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Sorry, the comparison was for top of the line CRTs

When are you going to do that one? All I see is a comparison for the low end/antiquated P275- nothing remotely close to a high end CRT.

Erm P275 is higher end than 99% of the monitors out there.
If you want better, you'd be paying over 1.5 grand, and most of that is for the color calibration system it comes with.
 
Erm P275 is higher end than 99% of the monitors out there.

Remind me not to shop where you do, they must have an enormously lousy selection.

If you want better, you'd be paying over 1.5 grand,

And they must screw you over hard with pricing too. The P275's biggest attraction is its' price. It is a typical large Trinitron with poor convergance and it also suffers from lousy refresh rates at its upper resolution limits. IBM has CRTs superior to the P275 available for quite a bit less then a grand(even by FD standards the P275 is lower end today)- never mind all of the Diamondtron tubes the humble the P275- some of them available in the $500 range new(not refurb). Maybe a while ago the P275 was a real good CRT monitor, today it isn't close to the top ten.
 
How much did that rig run you?

I have been thinking about getting a 21" LCD. But damned if I can find one worth buying.
 
Originally posted by: remagavon
I still want a Sony F-520 🙂

(Have a 2001fp and it's pretty good)

That would be nice 🙂
But for the price of one of those babies, you can have a dual 2001FP setup 🙂

How much did that rig run you?

I have been thinking about getting a 21" LCD. But damned if I can find one worth buying.
I only bought one. IBM has really good warranty and cross ships without requiring any credit card info at all. You have a month to ship your old one back, so I enjoyed using my dual 21" for a while 🙂
 
P275 is the only CRT that received a 5 in all image quality aspects, beating the top diamondtron monitor, the Mitsubishi D2070U

Their standard test suite is run at the setting of 1280x1024@85Hz, pretty much sums that up. I'm not crapping in your thread btw, just wondering if you used an actual top of the line CRT.
 
Many of your comments specifically reflect the Dell LCD, and not necessarily LCDs in general.

I had most of the same bad things to say about my Dell when I first got it, I switched from an SGI 1600sw (a 17" widescreen LCD). The SGI montior was flat out beautiful. The Dell, eh, in comparison was medicore. Bigger, but not as impressive. I ended up keeping the dell for various reasons, but overall I miss the SGI.
 
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