A Chalk Mark On A Tire Is A 'Search'?

[Fanatical Meat]

That's cool, I rarely visit the bigger cities. The smaller metro areas I'm used to, but I haven't seen this done.

hasn't happened often from visiting friends in Boston decades ago or more recently work but occasionally tire gets a small line or upside down v. Meter maid check to see if the tire has moved. Basically you can’t stay in the same spot for too long in some areas. Typically shopping or food places where there needs to be a certain turnover.
Traditionally they are cool with moving the car to a different spot. They don’t want you in one spot all day.

 

[ch33zw1z]

hasn't happened often from visiting friends in Boston decades ago or more recently work but occasionally tire gets a small line or upside down v. Meter maid check to see if the tire has moved. Basically you can’t stay in the same spot for too long in some areas. Typically shopping or food places where there needs to be a certain turnover.
Traditionally they are cool with moving the car to a different spot. They don’t want you in one spot all day.

I get what they mean. Don't wanna go too off topic. IMO, chalking tires is not a 4th amendment violation, don't mind hearing an argument otherwise, but seems like a stretch.

If the gubbermint was using chalked tires as a means to question citizens for non parking violations, or to try and gain entry into a vehicle, I could see the argument.

 

[Zorba]

If the plaintiff's complaint was that the govt was using the chalk marks for a reason other than to issue parking tickets, I would wholeheartedly agree with them.
Interesting case though. IMO all Constitutional rights should be stretched in favor of the People to their fullest possible extents, but OTOH parking your car on property you don't own is not a right.

Most street parking is in public right of way, so it is shared property, not someone else's property.

I think the issue is they are altering the car. If they were just scanning plates, I doubt there'd be an issue.

 

[Zorba]

"Once we establish it's a search"

How the !@#$ is that?
Marking a tire is not breaking into and searching the inside contents of a vehicle.
I am met with outrage over the absurdity, and a lack of explanation.

Is it that much different than installing an magnetic GPS tracker? Which has already been ruled against at the supreme court.

 

[Pohemi]

I think the issue is they are altering the car. If they were just scanning plates, I doubt there'd be an issue.

That was basically it, that they were 'trespassing' on private property and marking it. I searched for the case I mentioned, and it appears it happened in Michigan, not NY state.

Court Says Using Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitution

Physically marking a tire without a warrant is a violation of the Fourth Amendment, a federal appeals court ruled. The amendment protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures.

www.npr.org

Looks like it may have been overturned at a later date...

Yes, Tire Chalking is Legal! A History of the Tire Chalking Legal Battle

The legal argument over the validity of tire chalking is whether the parking enforcement technique is a violation of the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution!

westwardindustries.com

"As of June 2020, on-street parking enforcement, and specifically tire-chalking, has been upheld by the courts. While there had been prior confusion or uncertainty as to the legal status of tire-chalking, the matter is now concluded, and tire-chalking has been upheld as a legal parking enforcement practice. The case that brought the tire-chalking controversy to the courts and media attention has been dismissed again and on-street parking enforcement will continue to be upheld."

Seems the argument is more a case of, "don't touch/mark my private property" which is entirely voided if the cameras and mailed tickets were used. But the court says the chalk marks represent "reasonable" search, and I'm not sure I would disagree, to be honest.

 

[Viper1j]

Or maybe she is stupid or should follow the time limits posted. 15 parking tickets, I have never had a parking ticket.

Ever see that show Parking Wars?

Some meter maids are ignorant.

 

[HomerJS]

how the hell have you never had a parking ticket? do you live in a swamp?

Philadelphia is a motherfucker with parking tickets. There used to be a reality show called Parking Wars where they were prominently featured.

Two come to mind with me

1. Got back to my car from dinner and was 3 minutes late. They must have been sitting there waiting which they do when you are down to <= 5 min. Paid it because I was wrong but DAMN!

2. When Philly first put in kiosks I returned to my car to find a ticket for $301. It was for parking in a handicapped spot. I was like WTF I never saw that sign. Checked again and the parking sign which was 2x3 had a little blue square 1" x 1" with handicap symbol. I went online and discovered the parking authority had a lot of people dinged because they never saw the symbol. Since the PA said sigage is a problem I appealed and won. Whew!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Philadelphia is a motherfucker with parking tickets. There used to be a reality show called Parking Wars where they were prominently featured.

Two come to mind with me

1. Got back to my car from dinner and was 3 minutes late. They must have been sitting there waiting which they do when you are down to <= 5 min. Paid it because I was wrong but DAMN!

2. When Philly first put in kiosks I returned to my car to find a ticket for $301. It was for parking in a handicapped spot. I was like WTF I never saw that sign. Checked again and the parking sign which was 2x3 had a little blue square 1" x 1" with handicap symbol. I went online and discovered the parking authority had a lot of people dinged because they never saw the symbol. Since the PA said sigage is a problem I appealed and won. Whew!

Cant remember where but that woman who got fined for walking in front to the meter maid adding change to expired meters.
Forgot where but it happened within the last 10 years. There is a thread about it somewhere.

 

[Paratus]

how the hell have you never had a parking ticket? do you live in a swamp?

I’ve never had a parking ticket either. And since I think pckgeek lives in SE Texas like me the answer to, “does he live in a swamp?” is yes.

 

[tweaker2]

I think smearing silicone grease on my tires would solve the problem of having my tires being defaced with chalk. The nerve of some people these days I tell ya's. Besides, it would add a really nice sheen to 'um. I may as well slob that stuff on the tire treads too so I can do some wicked burn outs as I'm warming up the engine.

See? It's all good when you have positive attitude.

 

[hal2kilo]

I was just saying something to this effect to my wife. We literally have government cars driving around scanning cars all day, since when did we have to fall back to chalk?

Just watch some Parking Wars.

 

[hal2kilo]

I get what they mean. Don't wanna go too off topic. IMO, chalking tires is not a 4th amendment violation, don't mind hearing an argument otherwise, but seems like a stretch.

If the gubbermint was using chalked tires as a means to question citizens for non parking violations, or to try and gain entry into a vehicle, I could see the argument.

I'm sure at least half of these people complaining have 0 problems with piss tests.

 

[Moonbeam]

Or maybe she is stupid or should follow the time limits posted. 15 parking tickets, I have never had a parking ticket.

how the hell have you never had a parking ticket? do you live in a swamp?

Conservatives are big on personal responsibility, one of the reasons liberals have a hard time looking credible to them.

 

[HomerJS]

Isn't chalking someone's tires vandalism? I don't think they can commit crimes to enforce parking laws

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Isn't chalking someone's tires vandalism? I don't think they can commit crimes to enforce parking laws

The chalk mark in my experience is tiny and disappears fast. I think it would be a difficult argument to make that you had damages from it

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Is that big metal clamshell boot that effectively disables a vehicle a 'search'?

 

[Moonbeam]

I have a feeling that if I walked up to a police car and chalked the tire I'd immediately have some trouble with that police officer. Funny that.

I told a cop he just parked in a handicapped spot and he thanked me and moved his vehicle. It was dark and there wasn't a sign, just faded blue lines and I couldn't even see he was in a cop car. I just told him so he wouldn't get a ticket. Haha.

 

[pmv]

But while the car may be 'private property', surely if it's not legally-parked, and it's on public, or someone-else's private land, then how is it protected? If I leave a sofa on the sidewalk in the street outside, can I then object if anyone moves it or damages it? Or even sits on it?

 

[MrSquished]

I'm fine with them doing it around here. If you don't have a permit for this area, you can't park more than two hours. This is partly because there is great public transport to the city here, so people would come park all day, commute to NYC, and keep the spots from locals.

 

[pcgeek11]

how the hell have you never had a parking ticket? do you live in a swamp?

No, I don't live in a swamp. LOL

It's really easy to not get tickets.

Hint: follow the rules and the law and you will be fine and get no parking tickets. It has worked for me for my 50 years driving on the streets all over the US, England, Germany, Spain and several other countries.

 

[pcgeek11]

I was just saying something to this effect to my wife. We literally have government cars driving around scanning cars all day, since when did we have to fall back to chalk?

That is weird. Until I read this I had not seen a "meter-maid" since i was a very young man say mid to late 1960's.

 

[pcgeek11]

Ever see that show Parking Wars?

Some meter maids are ignorant.

No, Never watched it. Sounds boring.

Just like some people are ignorant.

I liked this part in the article linked above:

The case was brought by Alison Taylor, a Michigan woman whom the court describes as a "frequent recipient of parking tickets."

 

[pcgeek11]

I’ve never had a parking ticket either. And since I think pckgeek lives in SE Texas like me the answer to, “does he live in a swamp?” is yes.

No, not in Texas. I live in the Charleston, SC area.

I have driven in countries all over the world and never been ticketed for parking. My last ticket that I had was in 1983 for failure to dim lights... went to court and it was dismissed by the judge. Only one other ticket on my record and that was back in around 1977 for speeding which I paid as I was guilty as hell.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

No, I don't live in a swamp. LOL

It's really easy to not get tickets.

Hint: follow the rules and the law and you will be fine and get no parking tickets. It has worked for me for my 50 years driving on the streets all over the US, England, Germany, Spain and several other countries.

I agree,I have gotten them I think the last one was either late 90s or 2003 give or take. Those may be the last two and I am thinking of them as one event.
Regardless either pay the meter, arrive back in time or pay the damn ticket.

 

[Jaskalas]

You are outraged by this?

The claim "this is a search" is sheer stupidity.
They should be laughed out of court and threatened with wasting the court's time.