A black hospital patient went on a walk with an IV drip. Police arrested him on suspicion of stealing medical equipment

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Do white people leave the hospital hooked up to IV drips? If so, does the security guard call the cops? And if they did, would it hit the news? I can't imagine it's ok to leave any hospital with their equipment, even if you are walking around the parking lot having a smoke. Doesn't seem like something they'd permit. I am not sure this has anything to do with racism however.

Have you ever been to a Hospital? Whenever near a Hospital there are always some Patients milling about with IVs and/or in Hospital gowns.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
I hear ya brother. It's not every day for me but it's still a heck of a lot of them and it's been about 15 years for me as well.

I'm working on 3 months. I think I have quit for good this time, last time I restarted I felt like I was going to puke my guts out, that didn't happen, but I wasn't pleased with the feeling. That said, after that initial smoke the rest of my cigs didn't have that effect, but the thought of possibly feeling that way again is a sufficient deterrent. I have been using Pot though, if I'm feeling a little off, the Pot covers the feeling and distracts my mind. So far, so good.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
146
That never would have happened to me. If you think ANY of the doing (x) while black stories happen to white people, you're delusional.

FYI, both I, and an ex wife of mine have taken walks around outside hospitals while patients in wheelchairs and an IV, no less. I've walked my mother hooked to an IV outside a hospital in a wheelchair. Taking walks outside is NOT unusual.

As usual, the denials come in. This would have never happened were he white.

FFS go look at ANY hospital. You'll find patients in wheelchairs and hooked to IVs ambulatory all over the fucking place.

And people said that Amber Guyger must have murdered because they found the alternative scenario too unlikely. The unlikely is what happens when you are reporting on anecdotal incidents among over 320 million people. I think this incident probably had more to do with common sense than the cop actively being racist.

And of course the "while black" stuff happens to white people. There are several examples of cops executing white people on the spot, for instance, and plenty of people call the cops on others for stupid stuff because they have a vendetta, lack sense, etc..
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,541
16,323
146
And people said that Amber Guyger must have murdered because they found the alternative scenario too unlikely. The unlikely is what happens when you are reporting on anecdotal incidents among over 320 million people. I think this incident probably had more to do with common sense than the cop actively being racist.

And of course the "while black" stuff happens to white people. There are several examples of cops executing white people on the spot, for instance, and plenty of people call the cops on others for stupid stuff because they have a vendetta, lack sense, etc..

And (single anecdotal story) proves the entire premise of racism and unequal treatment of black by police wrong because (I'll accuse you of anecdotal evidence after presenting my own.)

Meanwhile, there is actual, statistical evidence to show a HUGE disparity in how blacks are treated by cops vs whites.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016...-shootings-killings-racism-racial-disparities

https://theconversation.com/a-new-look-at-racial-disparities-in-police-use-of-deadly-force-98681

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2016/12/cover-policing

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/the-stop-race-police-traffic/

Moreover,. please, enlighten us exactly what justifies stopping an obvious inpatient, accusing them of theft, calling the police, and the police arresting the patient.

A fcuking patient. A hospital inpatient.

Please, enlighten us.

Racism is reaching a fever pitch in this country and the constant racist feeding of right-wing echo chambers is making these people feel full justified in treating blacks VASTLY differently than whites.

So take your "there is no such thing as systemic racism against blacks in america" narrative and shove it. You may as well tell us the earth is flat, chemtrails are controlling the weather, climate change is a hoax and vaccines are poison.

You're denying the obvious, statistically and scientifically proven facts.
 

Juiblex

Banned
Sep 26, 2016
500
253
136
Have you ever been to a Hospital? Whenever near a Hospital there are always some Patients milling about with IVs and/or in Hospital gowns.
I've been to a hospital twice in my life and honestly i was so sick i wouldn't have noticed. Let me ask my wife. She's a physician assistant and has worked in hospital for years. Her response: "at the va hospital normally no. But if the patient was a long term smoker they could get special approval."
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,222
136
I've been to a hospital twice in my life and honestly i was so sick i wouldn't have noticed. Let me ask my wife. She's a physician assistant and has worked in hospital for years. Her response: "at the va hospital normally no. But if the patient was a long term smoker they could get special approval."

Then your wife needs to expand her working horizons. Granted some VA's can be rather authoritarian, and I've only worked in one (Augusta, GA), pts still wandered around with IV's, some with pumps. I know that in the civilian sector, amongst the hospitals I worked, both large and small, patients wandering around with indwelling IV's isn't a rare happening...it's seen literally all the time.

Now I'm just speaking from what I've seen working for ~25 years as an LPN/RN in various ICU's and ER's. But what do I know, right?
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
146
And (single anecdotal story) proves the entire premise of racism and unequal treatment of black by police wrong because (I'll accuse you of anecdotal evidence after presenting my own.)

Meanwhile, there is actual, statistical evidence to show a HUGE disparity in how blacks are treated by cops vs whites.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016...-shootings-killings-racism-racial-disparities

https://theconversation.com/a-new-look-at-racial-disparities-in-police-use-of-deadly-force-98681

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2016/12/cover-policing

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/the-stop-race-police-traffic/

Moreover,. please, enlighten us exactly what justifies stopping an obvious inpatient, accusing them of theft, calling the police, and the police arresting the patient.

A fcuking patient. A hospital inpatient.

Please, enlighten us.

Racism is reaching a fever pitch in this country and the constant racist feeding of right-wing echo chambers is making these people feel full justified in treating blacks VASTLY differently than whites.

So take your "there is no such thing as systemic racism against blacks in america" narrative and shove it. You may as well tell us the earth is flat, chemtrails are controlling the weather, climate change is a hoax and vaccines are poison.

You're denying the obvious, statistically and scientifically proven facts.

Your first article is debunked by your second article. Several nuggets in there demolish the rampant racism hypothesis as well. In your last article, it only mentions race, but there is a huge disparity between gender (see sciencedaily article), so why do you care far more about one over the other?

police%20killings%20by%20race.png


VS.

“Fatal police shootings are strongly tied to situations in which violent crime is being committed or suspected of being committed. Researchers looked at data on violent crime to see if it helps explain the difference in rates of black and white citizens who are fatally shot by police. They looked at 16 different measures of exposure to violent crime. Below are eight of the 16 measures used in the study. Each number represents the number of black and white individuals per 100,000.”

“The differences in involvement in criminal situations between black and white citizens fully explains the population-level disparity in fatal police shootings.

This suggests that officer bias – in terms of officers making different shooting decisions for black and white citizens – is not necessarily the cause of black citizens being shot at higher rates. Even if officers were making the same decisions about whether to use deadly force for black and white citizens, population-level disparities would still emerge given these crime rate differences.”


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120621130716.htm

Racial profiling has gained national attention in recent years, and a Kansas State University researcher is finding that it can involve an additional factor: gender.

“When compared with men, women were 23 percent less likely to be ticketed, 55 percent less likely to be arrested and 76 percent less likely to be searched when stopped by police. Women were more likely to only receive a warning or have no outcome when stopped by police during a traffic stop.”
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,568
9,939
146
I am not sure this has anything to do with racism however.
Want to guess the race of this kid?

Teenager Accused of Rape Deserves Leniency Because He’s From a ‘Good Family,’ Judge Says

The family court judge also said the victim should have been told that pressing charges would destroy the accused’s life.

The boy filmed himself penetrating her from behind, her torso exposed, her head hanging down, prosecutors said. He later shared the cellphone video among friends, investigators said, and sent a text that said, “When your first time having sex was rape.”

^^^ Of course, it was nothing so heinous as walking with an IV drip in your arm . . . while black.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,185
2,232
136
But why did he steal the equipment???



To sell it at the scrap metal place, obviously. The scrap guys there were going to take out his IV needle and then give him some pants as part of the deal so his ass isn't hanging out.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Want to guess the race of this kid?

Teenager Accused of Rape Deserves Leniency Because He’s From a ‘Good Family,’ Judge Says

The family court judge also said the victim should have been told that pressing charges would destroy the accused’s life.

The boy filmed himself penetrating her from behind, her torso exposed, her head hanging down, prosecutors said. He later shared the cellphone video among friends, investigators said, and sent a text that said, “When your first time having sex was rape.”

^^^ Of course, it was nothing so heinous as walking with an IV drip in your arm . . . while black.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.
 

Juiblex

Banned
Sep 26, 2016
500
253
136
Want to guess the race of this kid?

Teenager Accused of Rape Deserves Leniency Because He’s From a ‘Good Family,’ Judge Says

The family court judge also said the victim should have been told that pressing charges would destroy the accused’s life.

The boy filmed himself penetrating her from behind, her torso exposed, her head hanging down, prosecutors said. He later shared the cellphone video among friends, investigators said, and sent a text that said, “When your first time having sex was rape.”

^^^ Of course, it was nothing so heinous as walking with an IV drip in your arm . . . while black.

We can all cherry pick articles that are not relevant to the topic at hand to attempt to make a point, but what's your point? If you want to talk about that one, create a new topic. I don't see anybody defending the boy though. But let's switch it around. What if the boy was black? Would you have posted it? *Grin*
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,202
18,671
146
We can all cherry pick articles that are not relevant to the topic at hand to attempt to make a point, but what's your point? If you want to talk about that one, create a new topic. I don't see anybody defending the boy though. But let's switch it around. What if the boy was black? Would you have posted it? *Grin*

Nobody but the judge. If the boy was black, the book would've been thrown at him post haste.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
8,522
136
We can all cherry pick articles that are not relevant to the topic at hand to attempt to make a point, but what's your point? If you want to talk about that one, create a new topic. I don't see anybody defending the boy though. But let's switch it around. What if the boy was black? Would you have posted it? *Grin*

I'm guessing there were some fairly high-paid lawyers doing just that. Plus, apparently, the judge.

I doubt it would have happened like this if the boy had been black. But to be completely fair, that does bring up the point that this was possibly also partly about class. It might not have played out like that if the boy had been a poor white kid from a trailer park either.
Either way, it appears to be an example of how some groups get gentler treatment than do others.
 
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simpletron

Member
Oct 31, 2008
189
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The Post title is misleading/false. The three black men were arrest for disorderly conduct and two of them got an additional charge of resisting arrest. They were not arrest on suspicion of stealing medical equipment.

To those of you saying it is normal for patients to walk outside with IV drips, how normal is it to walk across a large parking lot to a corner of the hospital property with only residential properties in front of you for multiple blocks? I ask this because the house in the background of the video is clearly the one located at Stephenson Street and Whistler Avenue as described in the police statement. At my local hospital, I only have seen patients with IV drips outside in the green space on hospital property, standing near an entrance smoking, or walking between hospital building. I also seen patients in gowns without IV drips walk to the fast food places at one corner of the hospital. Personally I think it is a little strange for them to be that far out without an obvious destination.

This is what I suspect happened. Three black men either about to leave the hospital property or already left hospital property with IV drip and pump when the hospital security on patrol drives by and see them. The hospital security accuses them of stealing hospital equipment. They make a scene (remember self-described as "livid and irate"). The hospital security calls police. The police shows up, then investigates and determines they made a scene and arrest them.

The CNN article is one side because one of the guys arrested is talking to CNN, while getting no statements from the security officer and only the official statement from the police. The guy that was arrested is playing the victim and leaving out details that would make him look bad like exactly where he was that might warrant an accusation of stealing and that he lost his cool because of the accusation. They were still cussing at the hospital security during the arrest in the video. There is nothing in the video that make the police look bad.

The only person would might need some more training is the hospital security because if they weren't trying to steal the equipment, he should have shepherd back to the hospital building without incident.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,541
16,323
146
The Post title is misleading/false. The three black men were arrest for disorderly conduct and two of them got an additional charge of resisting arrest. They were not arrest on suspicion of stealing medical equipment.

To those of you saying it is normal for patients to walk outside with IV drips, how normal is it to walk across a large parking lot to a corner of the hospital property with only residential properties in front of you for multiple blocks? I ask this because the house in the background of the video is clearly the one located at Stephenson Street and Whistler Avenue as described in the police statement. At my local hospital, I only have seen patients with IV drips outside in the green space on hospital property, standing near an entrance smoking, or walking between hospital building. I also seen patients in gowns without IV drips walk to the fast food places at one corner of the hospital. Personally I think it is a little strange for them to be that far out without an obvious destination.

This is what I suspect happened. Three black men either about to leave the hospital property or already left hospital property with IV drip and pump when the hospital security on patrol drives by and see them. The hospital security accuses them of stealing hospital equipment. They make a scene (remember self-described as "livid and irate"). The hospital security calls police. The police shows up, then investigates and determines they made a scene and arrest them.

The CNN article is one side because one of the guys arrested is talking to CNN, while getting no statements from the security officer and only the official statement from the police. The guy that was arrested is playing the victim and leaving out details that would make him look bad like exactly where he was that might warrant an accusation of stealing and that he lost his cool because of the accusation. They were still cussing at the hospital security during the arrest in the video. There is nothing in the video that make the police look bad.

The only person would might need some more training is the hospital security because if they weren't trying to steal the equipment, he should have shepherd back to the hospital building without incident.

Why yes! Of course! Let's unduly harass and insult members of a certain race, and when they act as any oppressed person would, use those reactions as "disorderly conduct" and "resisting arrest."

Congrats, you found the playbook of police to use the 13th amendment to disenfranchise an entire race.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,541
16,323
146
Your first article is debunked by your second article. Several nuggets in there demolish the rampant racism hypothesis as well. In your last article, it only mentions race, but there is a huge disparity between gender (see sciencedaily article), so why do you care far more about one over the other?

police%20killings%20by%20race.png


VS.

“Fatal police shootings are strongly tied to situations in which violent crime is being committed or suspected of being committed. Researchers looked at data on violent crime to see if it helps explain the difference in rates of black and white citizens who are fatally shot by police. They looked at 16 different measures of exposure to violent crime. Below are eight of the 16 measures used in the study. Each number represents the number of black and white individuals per 100,000.”

“The differences in involvement in criminal situations between black and white citizens fully explains the population-level disparity in fatal police shootings.

This suggests that officer bias – in terms of officers making different shooting decisions for black and white citizens – is not necessarily the cause of black citizens being shot at higher rates. Even if officers were making the same decisions about whether to use deadly force for black and white citizens, population-level disparities would still emerge given these crime rate differences.”

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120621130716.htm

Racial profiling has gained national attention in recent years, and a Kansas State University researcher is finding that it can involve an additional factor: gender.

“When compared with men, women were 23 percent less likely to be ticketed, 55 percent less likely to be arrested and 76 percent less likely to be searched when stopped by police. Women were more likely to only receive a warning or have no outcome when stopped by police during a traffic stop.”

Actually, no. The second article's data supports me, but conclusions do not. The interesting thing about that second article happens in the comments. Where the conclusion is challenged by "so apparently the only way for blacks to reduce their exposure to police is to hide from them."

This exposes a privilege bias in the conclusion of the article. The fact that blacks are overly exposed, by no choice of their own, to police contact in comparison to whites is victim blamed rather than addressed. Also, they completely ignore how blacks are treated in low crime white areas.

Curiously, you looked at the horribly flawed conclusion, but not the data. The data is the same.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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Well I'm thankful for the discussion. I can say that it is reasonable that the walk was outside of the norm and that the officer's approach was influenced by the security guard's suggestion that they were stealing equipment and that the men were not interacting respectfully with the police in the encounter.

And yet I am not conflicted that, absent evidence of a safety threat posed by the men, the right result of this encounter should be verification that the man was a hospital patient and no arrests.

Because, in my mind, there was a right outcome and we didn't get it, no amount of mitigating factors which make police actions make them more reasonable can make them appropriate to normalize. Instead, we should turn our attention to understanding why the error happened regardless, and since there are a plethora of these kinds of events, most specifically systemic reasons and systemic interventions.

To me, this is similar to a root cause analysis conducted in a hospital when a serious adverse event happened or was at risk of happening. The ideal is that a group of individuals involved closest to the situation map out all the details which illustrate what happened and identify the risk points of a system representing vulnerability and propose interventions to the system to help prevent and monitor the risks moving forward. It is explicitly not an exercise in finding the individual who screwed up and holding them accountable. And despite that I've never seen one that didn't call forth those dynamics to great degree. The need here is to amplify efforts to understand, monitor, and prevent these happenings at a level far away from individual accountability. Doing so will help the efforts to do things with greater transparency and make those participating in fact finding tamper their fears of being blamed so learning from their failures may be used to actually prevent future ones.

Realistically, individually punitive interventions are only effective for willfully engaged activity that is knowingly deviant and only if the surrounding culture communicates that at risk behavior is not ok independent of whether something bad happens.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,604
11,304
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absent evidence of a safety threat posed by the men, the right result of this encounter should be verification that the man was a hospital patient and no arrests.

If one removes bigotry of one form or another from the list of possible reasons why this happened, this is the most puzzling part of all. Surely all the security guard had to do was say, "because you're far from the other patients and on the border of our property, I ought to check that you're a patient here", then asks for a few details, rings and confirms those with the hospital, then advises the guy that in order for other security guards not to potentially hassle him as well that he'd be better off staying where the others are hanging out.

I'm not exactly known for my amazing people skills yet this seems obvious to me. I'm sure that someone more experienced could come up with a way that puts the questioned far more at ease and reduces the risk of escalation.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
I hear ya brother. It's not every day for me but it's still a heck of a lot of them and it's been about 15 years for me as well.

Been close to 11 years. I have never had one craving since I quit but being in the line of work I am in it is easier I imagine. Besides... I get to live out my smoking through my wife who simply refuses to stop... She will one day...