Mr. X: "Mr. Y, don't bother with him, Irrational people can't make rational arguments, so just ignore him" and Vice versa
That is a quote and a sentence that I have seen many time here. As we know someone probably used a lot of 4 letter word without saying any thing relevant against Mr. Y and Mr. X is advising him on ignoring this. By the way any of the trigger-happy-flamers can stop reading cause, this argument/opinion is not siding any one US/Others, merely a psychological point of view that might explain the argument that we have be experiencing.
So, returning to the earlier quote (and its opposite), while in context it might be true, in real life it isn't. Let me explain, but before I do, I'd like to point out that I decided to discourse this issue cause it might shed some light on not just earlier quote, but also on why in the past few days (if a search was conducted, which I could not cause the program only searches trough tread titles) we seen the following words have been thrown at each other hundreds of times:
Ignorant
Pro-American
Anti-American
"WTF"
International-policy
Racist
I?m good your evil
Rational/irrational
Have you ever heard the term "Cognitivee dissonance"? I'm not sure it?s in the dictionary. It?s a psychological term. If you have read Elliot Aronson's "The Social Animal" you should understand. To familiarize you with it, I try explaining with examples and try to keep it very simple. (BTW all this is based on a lot of research and experimenting)
Basically we all have our reasoning and our feelings (of what we believe in and our self perception). Now most peoples self-perception is: I'm smart, just, moral, good, logical and reasonable. This perception rarely changes, cause it gives us a bad feeling. Unfortunately as we know this is not always true (we all make mistakes) and this "bad feeling" tends to come up at times like that. Now we all hate to feel bad, especially about ourselves. So very often our "sophisticated brain" does the following to reduce this feeling as much as possible (many time unconsciously). I'll give an example here: <imagine that you beat the hell out of someone that comes across the street with you, for no apparent reason>. This would counter your self-perception of being good, just, rational, moral etc. And with that the "bad feeling" comes. Two things came be done to reduce this 1) You had a really bad day, your drunk and angry. 2) That person was a hardened criminal and deserved it. Or 1) and 2) together. Now here comes the tricky part. Those (facts 1 and 2) can be "make-believe, that is (and this is also proven to be a very common phenomenon with humans, especially in cases like this) we have the ability to talk our self?s into it (we could even get help from others, like friends whom are close to you or share the same interest in that issue).
Now that was a raw and extreme example, but it helps get my point. Its an every day thing and does not have to be in that magnitude. Another example: picture a US marine in Vietnam who just shot a Vietnamese woman because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most probably this marine has a self-perception being a good person, but these two things counter each other (a kill innocent Vietnamese lady and "I'm a good person"). What happens is the marine make himself believe that she deserved it: "she was on the wrong side, she probably worked for the enemy, she was not Caucasian and there as expendable/inferior, Vietnamese are bad people etc".
I think you definitely get my point now, so I will not give more examples (its getting too long anyway).
Now to round this up, in the perspective of what is happening on this forum and why "a rational person can make irrational statements".
This is actually a fact and it is something that we all do, but just admitting it will make us feel bad and vulnerable. HUMAN NATURE is not perfect.
In the light of this you will more clearly understand (I'm not saying admit) the following:
a.) Someone from another country sounding or being very anti-American: explanation: most American are proud, being proud they often boast, if they boast others hear them, if they hear them, then they either have to admit that for example "the US is the best country to live in or the US has the best and most decent economy". NO! That would be like admitting that the country they live in and the govt. they support is not the best, which in turn would make them feel bad. Instead this person would focus on all the negative aspects of the US and make it a bad thing in his/her mind
b.) Some Americans sounding very superior and bashing every one that says negative things in respect of the US (like: there was a partially rational reason for the attack or America had it coming): explanation: Submitting to or even considering a statement like would be almost like saying "My country is bad" or "I've been fooled by my own govt. and this is supposed to be the freest and most democratic country in the world". NO! That would make them feel bad. Instead this person would focus on the other countries mistakes and all the good doing of the US that has gone unappreciated or just consider the person ignorant, without taking into consideration that the American citizens have the highest statistics (among developed countries) of not knowing the names and locations of other countries of the world.
So that?s basically it, if you?ve read through and understood then you might be able to understand a little bit more on why ?he doesn?t get my point or wouldn?t admit it? or ?he is ignoring my question and being very ignorant? kind of thoughts come to mind often in the argument we?ve been having here (on the WTC issue) with each other.
Just thought I might share that with you??..
Edit: corrected Spellings and Prognotive (Thanks to Moralpanic)
That is a quote and a sentence that I have seen many time here. As we know someone probably used a lot of 4 letter word without saying any thing relevant against Mr. Y and Mr. X is advising him on ignoring this. By the way any of the trigger-happy-flamers can stop reading cause, this argument/opinion is not siding any one US/Others, merely a psychological point of view that might explain the argument that we have be experiencing.
So, returning to the earlier quote (and its opposite), while in context it might be true, in real life it isn't. Let me explain, but before I do, I'd like to point out that I decided to discourse this issue cause it might shed some light on not just earlier quote, but also on why in the past few days (if a search was conducted, which I could not cause the program only searches trough tread titles) we seen the following words have been thrown at each other hundreds of times:
Ignorant
Pro-American
Anti-American
"WTF"
International-policy
Racist
I?m good your evil
Rational/irrational
Have you ever heard the term "Cognitivee dissonance"? I'm not sure it?s in the dictionary. It?s a psychological term. If you have read Elliot Aronson's "The Social Animal" you should understand. To familiarize you with it, I try explaining with examples and try to keep it very simple. (BTW all this is based on a lot of research and experimenting)
Basically we all have our reasoning and our feelings (of what we believe in and our self perception). Now most peoples self-perception is: I'm smart, just, moral, good, logical and reasonable. This perception rarely changes, cause it gives us a bad feeling. Unfortunately as we know this is not always true (we all make mistakes) and this "bad feeling" tends to come up at times like that. Now we all hate to feel bad, especially about ourselves. So very often our "sophisticated brain" does the following to reduce this feeling as much as possible (many time unconsciously). I'll give an example here: <imagine that you beat the hell out of someone that comes across the street with you, for no apparent reason>. This would counter your self-perception of being good, just, rational, moral etc. And with that the "bad feeling" comes. Two things came be done to reduce this 1) You had a really bad day, your drunk and angry. 2) That person was a hardened criminal and deserved it. Or 1) and 2) together. Now here comes the tricky part. Those (facts 1 and 2) can be "make-believe, that is (and this is also proven to be a very common phenomenon with humans, especially in cases like this) we have the ability to talk our self?s into it (we could even get help from others, like friends whom are close to you or share the same interest in that issue).
Now that was a raw and extreme example, but it helps get my point. Its an every day thing and does not have to be in that magnitude. Another example: picture a US marine in Vietnam who just shot a Vietnamese woman because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most probably this marine has a self-perception being a good person, but these two things counter each other (a kill innocent Vietnamese lady and "I'm a good person"). What happens is the marine make himself believe that she deserved it: "she was on the wrong side, she probably worked for the enemy, she was not Caucasian and there as expendable/inferior, Vietnamese are bad people etc".
I think you definitely get my point now, so I will not give more examples (its getting too long anyway).
Now to round this up, in the perspective of what is happening on this forum and why "a rational person can make irrational statements".
This is actually a fact and it is something that we all do, but just admitting it will make us feel bad and vulnerable. HUMAN NATURE is not perfect.
In the light of this you will more clearly understand (I'm not saying admit) the following:
a.) Someone from another country sounding or being very anti-American: explanation: most American are proud, being proud they often boast, if they boast others hear them, if they hear them, then they either have to admit that for example "the US is the best country to live in or the US has the best and most decent economy". NO! That would be like admitting that the country they live in and the govt. they support is not the best, which in turn would make them feel bad. Instead this person would focus on all the negative aspects of the US and make it a bad thing in his/her mind
b.) Some Americans sounding very superior and bashing every one that says negative things in respect of the US (like: there was a partially rational reason for the attack or America had it coming): explanation: Submitting to or even considering a statement like would be almost like saying "My country is bad" or "I've been fooled by my own govt. and this is supposed to be the freest and most democratic country in the world". NO! That would make them feel bad. Instead this person would focus on the other countries mistakes and all the good doing of the US that has gone unappreciated or just consider the person ignorant, without taking into consideration that the American citizens have the highest statistics (among developed countries) of not knowing the names and locations of other countries of the world.
So that?s basically it, if you?ve read through and understood then you might be able to understand a little bit more on why ?he doesn?t get my point or wouldn?t admit it? or ?he is ignoring my question and being very ignorant? kind of thoughts come to mind often in the argument we?ve been having here (on the WTC issue) with each other.
Just thought I might share that with you??..
Edit: corrected Spellings and Prognotive (Thanks to Moralpanic)
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