A 8320e Build in 2016 or X5xxx Dual Xeon?

[DrMrLordX]

There are people who run with less than dual tower coolers on newer FX chips @ around that clockspeed. If you have to spend that much on cooling (which OP does not, not really) it starts to weaken the case for the FX, especially when you consider that the AM3+ mount hardware won't carry over to AM4 or any Intel platform.

 

[superstition]

There are people who run with less than dual tower coolers on newer FX chips @ around that clockspeed. If you have to spend that much on cooling (which OP does not, not really) it starts to weaken the case for the FX, especially when you consider that the AM3+ mount hardware won't carry over to AM4 or any Intel platform.

I like low-noise computers. It definitely takes more effective cooling to keep noise down.

The main culprit is stress testing under Prime (in-place 768-900K) which requires more power input than anything else. Maybe my board is really buggy but I couldn't get Linpack (via LinX) to hit the system as hard as Prime does. It's a catch-22. If one doesn't fully stress test then there is the chance of instability. However, if one fully stress tests then one can inflate the cooling requirements for real-world loads. Unless, that is, one is folding or something. I've heard people claim folding is pretty much as stressful as Prime.

The Stilt had a somewhat complex Prime testing methodology that alleviated the issue but it would be nicer to have a program that would do all that for you. He said the Vishera design is limited by L2 cache so, as I recall, he said a program that just stresses that could theoretically be used to determine power/cooling requirements (likely faster and easier than with Prime).

Besides noise level and board efficiency (like heat traveling back to the CPU from the VRMs due to inadequate VRM cooling) there is the issue of ambient temps and case cooling. I had my system stable with the case door removed and a ceiling fan open and as soon as I put the case door back on or even closed the door to my room (which removed a draft) instability struck. Some of the people with lesser coolers may be keeping their houses quite cold. Others may put on things like a Delta fan. There is also the silicon lottery (which seems to help explain the low voltage seen in the Anandtech sample at 4.5).

Overclocking definitely has diminishing returns in terms of cost-benefit ratio. The Anandtech chart shows, I'd say, though, that an FX doesn't have to have a dual tower cooler for clocks below 4.4. 4.1 is probably the sweet spot for a single tower 120mm cooler while keeping the noise down. Taking the thin fan from the 8320E and putting it on the VRM sink of the UD3P at 4.4 requires a high RPM to cool it at full load, creating quite a bit of noise, btw. The 8370E comes with a thicker fan which may be the only difference between the two chips. I'm not sure I believe it's binned differently although I've only had one sample of each chip. The Stilt is a better authority about that.

 

[superstition]

Going with a custom loop is one way to avoid the mounting issue and deal with the heat of FX with reasonable noise. A popular block like the EK MX will not be lacking in terms of mounting brackets.

I think their basic 360mm 2.0 kit is a pretty good setup. I got one but then added a 480 with slow sleeve fans (couldn't afford Noctuas) to further cut the noise level. The vardar fans are a bit noisy at effective cooling levels. Avoid dropping them because ball bearing fans can be permanently turned into noise machines with one fall.

As far as price goes, though, shopping around can score a 140mm tower cooler for not much.

Another trick about the 8320E is that if people leave APM on they'll throttle heavily in multicore tests so they may think they're overclocking to a higher clock speed but are actually throttling under load. Cinebench is useful for seeing this. So people with weak cooling may be throttling. I think it was TechSpot that actually seemed to benchmark their chip with APM on. Oops.

found them:
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/1087/bench/Encoding_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/1087/bench/Encoding_01.png

Considering that the TDP is 95W and the chip uses around 86 watts at stock those results look to me like APM was on and it was throttling to 95W. Also, though, one person at another forum said these TechSpot tests were using unrealistic settings as well.

 

[Raduque]

I think if you're considering Xeons, pick this board
http://www.natex.us/product-p/intels2600cp2j-custom.htm
for $175, an E5-2670 C2 SR0KX stepping for VT-D for $70 from Ebay, 32gb ECC DDR3, and a PSU with two 8-pin CPU power connectors. That board will boot and run with just one Xeon and set of ram. If you find you need more power later, you can toss in another $70 2670 and 32 gigs ram. Throw the whole mess into a Phantek Enthoo Pro which supports that board's SSI EEB form factor.

I have a single 2670 in my WHS storage/transcoding server. The motherboard cost me $203, but you can't seem to find a consumer board under $300 these days.

For what it's worth, I was wrestling with this question myself a month back. I finally settled on an i5-6500 Skylake chip, giving me the ability to throw in an i7 further down the line. I'll be using it to edit and render videos for youtube in Sony Movie Studio 13, not Adobe Premier though, so I don't need a GPU.

 

[jfp555]

Downside: most UEFIs/BIOSes limit the amount of memory that can be assigned to framebuffer. FM2+ generally limits framebuffer allocation to 2Gb. So, no real advantage there unless you have some crazy HSA/OpenCL 2.0-style stuff going on . . .

Okay, so it's interesting to hear that you can't rely on GPUs for your pro-level render output. I'm a bit put-off that people are having accuracy/quality issues using GPUs for the final render! Is that with consumer-level cards? Maybe the pro cards (that cost $$$$$) and their drivers do a better job of addressing the problem?

In the event that you need CPU-level rendering and modern or semi-modern features, I can see why you might look at the FX since several board OEMs released refreshes of their AM3+ lineup with new features tacked onto the aging 970 and 990fx chipsets. I'm not really sure how FX stacks up in Premiere Pro in 2016 vs. a similarly-priced Intel CPU. Most FX chips are in the price range of a locked i5 Haswell or Skylake (think 4460 or 6400). Something like the 8320e can be had for less, though you will have to mess with clockspeeds (basically set it to max turbo, or close to it) to get the most out of that chip in any long-term render workload.

I think if you're considering Xeons, pick this board
http://www.natex.us/product-p/intels2600cp2j-custom.htm
for $175, an E5-2670 C2 SR0KX stepping for VT-D for $70 from Ebay, 32gb ECC DDR3, and a PSU with two 8-pin CPU power connectors. That board will boot and run with just one Xeon and set of ram. If you find you need more power later, you can toss in another $70 2670 and 32 gigs ram. Throw the whole mess into a Phantek Enthoo Pro which supports that board's SSI EEB form factor.

I have a single 2670 in my WHS storage/transcoding server. The motherboard cost me $203, but you can't seem to find a consumer board under $300 these days.

For what it's worth, I was wrestling with this question myself a month back. I finally settled on an i5-6500 Skylake chip, giving me the ability to throw in an i7 further down the line. I'll be using it to edit and render videos for youtube in Sony Movie Studio 13, not Adobe Premier though, so I don't need a GPU.

So I've been reading the responses in detail and some further research also led me to this VERY informative response from the gpu subforum:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38318245&postcount=61

On AMD vs Nvidia

By OpenCL is widely supported across all effects. It took time, but it's there now. Today, Fury X is the most stable and fastest card for the latest Premiere Pro released last week. You are right that most workloads are CPU driven and hence don't show off the GPU's potential. But drop in a heavy sequence - we are talking 8K on a light codec with a whole bunch of effects, and Fury X shows its might, outperforming even Quadro M6000. (Haven't tested 1080 yet)

On Premiere Pro CPU vs GPU scenario:

Premiere Pro uses GPU acceleration extensively, everything from scaling, colour management transforms to exports. For exports, it even uses multi GPUs. How much your system is CPU limited is determined by the source format used. That is because decoding is almost always CPU bound.

So, if you are reading 6K R3D RED RAW files, it doesn't matter - you will be CPU bound till you have a 20-core system. If you are reading 4K XAVC or XF-AVC files from cameras like Sony F5 or C300 Mk II, you will be CPU bound till a 6-core system. Some codecs are storage I/O bound too. Such as ARRIRAW or F65RAW. These are uncompressed codecs with GPU accelerated debayer, so the CPU doesn't do much work. But you need a SSD or fast RAID0 subsystem to eliminate the bottleneck as they draw to the tune of 300 MB/s. Finally, we have mezzanine codecs like DNxHR, Cineform and ProRes. You can run 8K easily, little stress on CPU or I/O. Here the sequence become GPU limited as the GPU has to work to scale down the 8K to your sequence and display.

It's completely false that you can't edit 4K on Premiere Pro. We have finished multiple 6K RED Epic / Weapon projects. This is the most popular camera being used. Like I said above, with a light codec, 8K is pretty easy on Premiere Pro with a mid-range system. Check out Devin Super Tramp - he has multiple videos showing off his workflow - a lot of 6K footage finished at 4K. On a Mac with AMD graphics cards, by the way.

He also highlights Adobe Premiere Pro vs FCPX which is excellent reading for anyone interested in understanding these workflows.

Lets say I'm looking for best bang for buck, centered around a workflow that revolves around a variety of formats but nothing like the massive 8k and 6k footage mentioned above.

The Natex link with the dual cpus and mobo+ram is looking quite sweet though I have decided that a fury Nano will be a very reasonable card to use with this setup.

So in my usage scenario, all three systems below come with their own pros and cons. I could just see where I get the best bang for buck within a reasonable power envelope.

What power supply and power requirements are we looking at:

AMD 8320e OC to 4.4ish + fury nano

dual 2670 with Fury nano

5820k OC to 4.2ish + fury nano

 

[DrMrLordX]

Fury Nano's power requirements are not that severe. I don't have any numbers for its power consumption under Premiere Pro, but you can check:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9621/the-amd-radeon-r9-nano-review/16

The test system:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9621/the-amd-radeon-r9-nano-review/3

You can use a ~600-700W PSU and never have to worry. If you are planning to upgrade to a multiGPU scenario, then you might need a little more, but I seriously doubt that.

I would recommend one of the EVGA SUPERNOVA p2 PSUs like this one:

http://pcpartpicker.com/product/6p8H99/evga-power-supply-220p20650x1

It isn't the only game in town, but I have a 750W p2 and I like it a lot. Very efficient, reasonably-priced, and of good build quality. SuperFlower really did a good job with their reference design.

 

[jfp555]

For the ideal xeon build, how is this:

From the /r/homelab reddit, in a post debating between getting the z820 workstation or building from scratch:

https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/co...g_hp_z820_workstation_for_around_1k/?sort=new

I think you could do better if you build the computer from scratch. There is a couple of reasons for this. First, you will not have to deal with proprietary connectors, power supplies, motherboard designs, whatever. If something breaks, you can order a new part and swap it in (as opposed to having to buy used parts and hoping they will last a long time). Here is a quick build I put together that comes in under $1,000:
Motherboard: ASUS Z9PE/D16 (~$450) Newegg via eBay

- You can pick a cheaper motherboard if you like, like this Supermicro for $350
though it is used. You are protected by eBay / Paypal / your credit card if you get a dud. The boards are expensive right now because those CPUs are so cheap. However, I still think this platform in general is still a good value. Sandy Bridge Xeons are not that much worse than the newer Haswell-EP processors for most tasks in my opinion, and it would cost much more to build a similar machine from those. RAM: 8x8GB DDR3 ECC PC3-10600 (1333MHz) $130 via eBay

. There are plenty of other sellers selling this configuration, and the prices are roughly $130 - $140. Processors: You already know where to get those .
Power Supply: Corsair HX750i Full Modular 80+ Platinum Power Supply via Newegg

- $100 after coupon code and rebate. Power supply choice is important because for most dual 2011 boards, you need two 8-pin CPU / EPS connectors. Most higher end Seasonics have them, and this Corsair has them (but the 80+ Gold version of this Corsair does not). Case: This is a bit tricky too, because fitting all of this into a tower requires a big tower that can take SSI-EEB motherboards. There are not too many cases on the market that specifically support this motherboard type. While it is the same size as Extended ATX (12x13"), the mounting holes are in different places. I have the Enthoo Pro (~$99 from Newegg

), and it works with EEB motherboards. There is a windowed version too if you are into that kind of thing. Coolers: You could go with Noctuas (like the NH-U12DXi4), but that would put the build over $1,000 . The Supermicro SNK-P0050AP4

at $40 each should do nicely. They have brackets for both narrow and square ILM. If you are using square ILM, you could save a few bucks and get a pair of CoolerMaster 212EVO, but most server boards you will run across will use a narrow ILM. This build comes out at roughly $1,000, and give syou the ability to swap in another motherboard / CPU combo in the future. The Z820 does not really give you that.
A few tips:

• Do not cheap out on the motherboard. It might be tempting to buy the cheapest thing you can find, but it will often lack features or have some quirks you have to work around. I built a similar platform recently, and I splurged a bit on the motherboard, but I got all of the features I wanted (namely multiple x16 PCIe slots, good IPMI, quad Intel NICs, 8xSAS2, solid brand), and everything went together super smoothly.
• If you are patient, you can wait for sales. I got everything for my new build on sale except for the motherboard. $10 or $20 off per part adds up.

Please let me know if you have any questions, and please let us know what you end up doing!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Proprietary PSU connectors suck. You don't want to have to deal with them. Standard 24-pin ATX + 8-pin aux connectors should be a must on any system unless there's a very good reason for something different, such as dealing with a specialized server motherboard.

I don't recommend the Corsair over the EVGA but make your own judgment.

Most good power supplies should have enough connectors for 1 or 2 8-pin CPU/EPS plugs, but check to make sure.

 

[TeknoBug]

Proprietary PSU connectors suck. You don't want to have to deal with them. Standard 24-pin ATX + 8-pin aux connectors should be a must on any system unless there's a very good reason for something different, such as dealing with a specialized server motherboard.

I don't recommend the Corsair over the EVGA but make your own judgment.

Most good power supplies should have enough connectors for 1 or 2 8-pin CPU/EPS plugs, but check to make sure.

I remember having a dual Pentium II Xeon server which had a proprietary power supply, it even had power connectors for each VRM for the CPUs, once that power supply goes then you're stuck unless you can shell out another $500. It was a neat system, 16 ECC memory slots (don't remember what kind of RAM it was now). And the motherboard wasn't even a standard AT or ATX either.

 

[Burpo]

x99 Intel just doesnt make sense to me at this time because I cannot justify the cost as I would like to wait for Zen.

Dual socket LGA2011-3 board $300

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...581447?hash=item58d1c6b047:g:LZ0AAOSwNSxVShOr

Pair of 12 core Xeon E5-2658 v3 CPU's $310

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-...877964?hash=item1eaf1c2c0c:g:gp8AAOSw2GlXFvTV

Choose PS, HSF, RAM & Video. Maybe overkill, but 48 threads will render..

 

[jfp555]

Dual socket LGA2011-3 board $300

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...581447?hash=item58d1c6b047:g:LZ0AAOSwNSxVShOr

Pair of 12 core Xeon E5-2658 v3 CPU's $310

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-...877964?hash=item1eaf1c2c0c:g:gp8AAOSw2GlXFvTV

Choose PS, HSF, RAM & Video. Maybe overkill, but 48 threads will render..

Interesting. Considering the absurd prices of the lga 2011 v1 motherboards this is a very good proposition. Can you please help me locate CPU's with slightly faster clocks. 2 ghz is dangerously slow and could lead to issues.

It also seems that those selling these CPU's are saying that they will only work with certain motherboards. Will ES/QS CPU's be compatible with this mobo?

Even if the higher clocked CPU's are more expensive, will it be possible to operate just 1 cpu while I wait for prices to go down for the second one?

 

[Burpo]

Single thread performance isn't bad on those 2.2Ghz. chips, but here's a 3Ghz (turbo) 10 core..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-...303993?hash=item2369d33239:g:iVcAAOSwq5pXQVDm

Or 12 core E5-2676-V3 's..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-...630118?hash=item51e3d359e6:g:E78AAOxyCepScNeQ

That board supports ES CPU's and is ATX size.. also it supports bootable Nvme.

You just need to change PCIe to UEFI mode (please refer to manual)

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/compact-dual-e5-xeon-2690-v3-build.9606/

http://www.citrixguru.com/2015/08/08/building-a-dual-xeon-citrix-lab-part-1/


ECC memory is mandatory, and you can run with just one CPU..