__ AnandTech GEAR HEADs.. Can you help me with my COLT? _______ > !! Colt Update !! <

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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
I tried to go to work tonight but didn't quite make it.
Problem: 1989 Dodge Colt, 1.5L EFI (heat related stall/start problem.
I can start the car fine cold, run it for about 20 minutes then it starts to hesitate, cough, sputter... until I have to pull over. It won't restart until a certain area is cooled down enough.
See trouble area HERE... De-linked

The car isn't overheating at all. The temp guage is working properly and only goes up to about half way after driving (that's been a normal temp since I've owned the car).
I can pour water over the circled area in the pic and the car will restart after that area has been cooled.

* Can anyone suggest which component in this area may be the culprit?
* Can someone direct me to a good manual for this car that goes into detail about the (vacuum, electrical), systems?

I'm already got some other cars scoped out. So no need telling me to get rid of this 13 year old beast. :p

>> UPDATE AT THE BOTTOM <<
 
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toph99

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2000
5,505
0
0
wow, for a car that age that engine is clean :) are you pouring water on the thermostat? Only thing i can think of is that it's cooling the intake air temp sensor, which when it gets hot will lean out the injectors. I don't think that would be the problem, but at almost 3am it's the best thing i can think of
 
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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Thanks for the info. It's a lot better to be here in front of my monitor than to be walking down a dark road, like I was about an hour ago. :)

BTW, The Colt's engine is a Mitsubishi

BTW II, The pic was taken by a Fuji FinePix 1400 about 1:20am CST, viewed as a jpeg, screen captured as a bitmap into MS Paint (so I could add the circle), cropped and converted back to a jpeg for uploading. :D
That is a nice pic for all it's been through!
 
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notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
I see you've got a rubber intake tube going to the throttle body there. I used to have one of those. When rubber gets warm, it gets soft, when you suck a lot of air through soft rubber into an engine, the rubber tube can collapse completely, causing all air into the engine to be cut off. This used to happen on my car (of course, my car is running 6psi of boost). Feel that rubber tube, how soft is it? This may not be your problem, but it may be a part of it. Usually, this wouldn't be a problem just with starting the car though, it's a lot more likely to show up at high RPMs.

Something could be heating up and expanding and sticking, maybe the throttle plate.

How hot is that rubber tube, and the throttle body (metal part between the rubbber tube and the part that says ECI on it) after running the car? Might be a sensor problem, maybe the TPS (throttle position sensor) is getting hot and giving bad info to the computer?

Give more info if you can.
 
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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
The rubber tube doesn't get hot at all. I mean, it's warm just by being in the engine compartment. But it doesn't get soft.

I went to Parts America to look at what sensors they have listed for my car. But I've never heard of a "Knock Sensor" :eek:
The sensors they have listed for mine are...
<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.partsamerica.com/PartTypes.asp?SourceArea=SHOP&PartGroupID=SENSAMS&Description=Sensors">Mass Air Flow,
Coolant Temperature,
EGR Valve Position,
Knock,
MAP-BARO (special order),
Oxygen,
and Speed</a>

I'm assuming that the Coolant Temperature sensor is located around the thermostat housing. I know the Mass Air Flow and Oxygen sensors aren't in the trouble area, but are the others?
 
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bizmark

Banned
Feb 4, 2002
2,311
0
0
just to make sure... the circled area is the part on top, right? The part where there's the rubber tube going into a metal thing, with a metal plate on the top of it and then a plastic connector with wires to the side and then lower down another plastic thing with wires? That's where you pour the water, and not some place below it (lower part of the circle, or possibly something we can't really see in the pic)?

just wanted to make sure that everybody's on the same page here :) I don't know too much about cars so I can't really be of much help. But what notfred said makes sense. It could be a sensor problem relating to the throttle.

Are you sure that the temp guage is working correctly? I.e. you have plenty of coolant in your engine? I had that problem once :) I didn't have enough coolant for the temp sensor to actually be able to sense the heat correctly :Q so I couldn't tell how much my engine was actually overheating. (I could tell it in other ways... nothing major though, and my car is still alive and kicking even though I drove it for a while on some very hot days like that :))
 
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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Yes, the radiator has plenty of coolant. The area in the circle is where I pour the water...
Over the throttle thingie (it runs down also), over the thermostat housing (it also runs down). Basically I know something in this area is the problem. I just don't know which part it is. The water also runs down on the fuel pressure regulator (I think that's what it is). It's the dull gray round thing down under the throttle thingie.

I didn't see a "Throttle Position Sensor" being listed as one of the sensors for my car.

I'm glad I watched so much Beavis & Butthead... now I know what things are called... Thingies ;)
 

The part you have circled is a Throttle Position Sensor.

Do not start "guessing" at what's wrong,go here

and retrieve the trouble codes.This will tell you exactly what is wrong.
 
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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Ok, the gray roundy thingie is my E.G.R. valve. I removed it and cleaned it out. It was a little "gunky" but who knows, I haven't driven it yet.
My local Auto Zone doesn't have a manual for my Colt. I'll be ordering one online (safe here at home).

* Which manual would go into more depth... Chilton's or Haynes?

My local Auto Zone also doesn't have O2 or Knock sensors for my car. What online auto parts vendor has a good selection of parts at fair prices?

Thanks everybody! :D
 
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Thegonagle

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2000
9,773
0
71
First, it's good that you keep the engine compartment clean. My compliments.

I'm going to guess that it's a mechanical device called the fuel pressure regulator. It's located at end of the fuel rail, and it's supposed to keep the fuel pressure ay the injectors constant. The fuel pump is designed to provide more pressure than the injectors need and the regulator's job is to bleed the pressure off and send the excess fuel back to the tank via a return line. If the regulator is bleeding off too much pressure, the engine won't run correctly.
 
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RayH

Senior member
Jun 30, 2000
963
1
81
You might want to pull the spark plugs after stalling to see if the engine is running rich or lean. Is there alot of smoke when the car is about to stall? It sounds like a heat related throttle position sensor problem since most other sensor failures in that area would either cause the regular idle to be bad but not bad enough to stall the engine entirely.

The other possiblity is a gasket leak near the throttle body when the car is hot but it shouldn't cause the engine to stall entirely.
 
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etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
I have never worked on a Colt engine so....

The TPS is the one the side with the three green wires running into it. It has the two bolts holding it on. Possible but not likely.

The connection on top probably goes to the MAP sensor. The MAP sensor will be inside just past the end of the large air intake hose. They have been known to stick. Use an O2 safe cleaner and clean it out. You might try reseating the connector on top also. Just pull it apart and plug it back together. While you have it apart look for any corrosion inside.

Fuel rail, silver line that runs into the gold anodized line. Fuel could be vaporizing due to heat. I don't think that is too likely either.

How many miles on the car? A partially pluged fuel filter will give you similar symptoms. It might be worth it to just change the fuel filter. How long does it run after you douse it?


The O2 sensor/s will be located in your exhaust. Not likely in this case.


<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/80s-codes.html">The 1980s-1990s Chrysler Computer Codes
</a>
 
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Quixfire

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2001
6,892
0
0
Blain,
The problem you are having is with the throttle position sensor (TPS), the reason it isn't displaying a code is because it is still within a specific value. The problem with these cars is the TPS gets out of range, then the computer thinks the throttle is open wider or closer than it really is. You need to adjust the sensor to a value of .490-.525 volts with the key in the run position. This is best done with the engine running. Also clean the throttle body with a brass or nylon brush and some throttle body cleaner prior to this adjustment. I have fixed quite a few of these cars with this method. If you can't find a manual to show you the wiring diagram, then take it to a professional repair shop and request this service.

Good Luck!
 
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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Quixfire,
Thanks for the info. I don't mind digging into the repair myself. How do I go about the actual adjustment of the TPS?
I remember seeing a hand drawn diagram of the TPS contacts somewhere on the web, but I don't recall the site. I'm usually pretty good about adding stuff like that to my favorites. But I didn't this time :(

At $115 a new TPS is kind of steep. Would a junk yard part work out in this situation, or is "new" the best way to go? That is if the adjustment doesn't work.
 
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Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
I swapped out the throttle assembly with a salvage yard unit... Not Fixed
I swapped out the coil with a known good unit... Not Fixed

I took it to a garage to get worked on. They couldn't find the problem and had me pick up the car.
After driving the car home, I let it idle for about 30 minutes. It Did NOT quit on me! The next day I let it run for about 45 minutes and still It Did NOT quit on me. I drove it 3 or 4 more times since then, all without having the problem appearing again!
The car has become "unreliable" for me at this point. Would you all consider the problem "fixed" based on the recent history of running fine?
The car's going to be sold off cheap, because I got the unltimate "Colt fix" >> HERE << :D

Thanks for all your help anyway! I really appreciate it. :)
 
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