9800 GX2, too little too late?

[NanoStuff]

8800 GTX was released November 2006.
9800 GX2 is being released March 2008.

It appears the 9800 will be 40-60% faster than 8800 GTX.

A ~50% improvement over 16 months, is this the best we can do? I might as well pop in my Voodoo and play Oregon trail.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

I need something to replace my "aging" dual 7900gt setup but I'll wait for the second gen that nvidia almost always releases just a bit after their first of the series. It usually spanks the pants off whatever they put out first. Case and point with the 7800/7900/FX5800/FX5900 et al

 

[Genx87]

What were the performance increases from previous generations? I seem to remember the % is about the same. Is this a single GPU setup? I havent been keeping up with the video card industry since AMD bought ATI and Nvidia has had their way since.

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What were the performance increases from previous generations? I seem to remember the % is about the same. Is this a single GPU setup? I havent been keeping up with the video card industry since AMD bought ATI and Nvidia has had their way since.

9800GX2 is basically two 8800GTS 512mb cards glued on top of on another. Should be a nice little convection oven.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What were the performance increases from previous generations? I seem to remember the % is about the same. Is this a single GPU setup? I havent been keeping up with the video card industry since AMD bought ATI and Nvidia has had their way since.

The percentage was about the same with the exception of a few. The FX 5xxx series to the 6xxx was a significant jump, as well as the 78xx / 79xx to 8800GTX or GTS. I think most of us got spoiled by the HUGH performance jump with the 8800GTX, and now expect no less.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky

Originally posted by: Genx87
What were the performance increases from previous generations? I seem to remember the % is about the same. Is this a single GPU setup? I havent been keeping up with the video card industry since AMD bought ATI and Nvidia has had their way since.

The percentage was about the same with the exception of a few. The FX 5xxx series to the 6xxx was a significant jump, as well as the 78xx / 79xx to 8800GTX or GTS. I think most of us got spoiled by the HUGH performance jump with the 8800GTX, and now expect no less.

We expect, at least should expect, attempts at continued innovation in GPU architecture and power efficiency. Gluing together two 8800s and calling that 'next gen', without at least improvements in SLI performance doesn't qualify.

Those aren't unreasonable expectations, Nvidia hasn't been this sloppy for a while. ATI/AMD's feeble position in the market is really starting to show it's ugly side.

 

[scottb75]

Last time they tried this was the 7950GX2 which was replaced at the top by the 8800GTX only a few months after. I have faith that the 9800GX2 like the 7950GX2 is just there to hold us over until the next gen GTX comes along.

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: scottb75
Last time they tried this was the 7950GX2 which was replaced at the top by the 8800GTX only a few months after. I have faith that the 9800GX2 like the 7950GX2 is just there to hold us over until the next gen GTX comes along.

That's the plan from what I understand. AFAIK, the GT200 (nvidia's next white horse) should be out in june-july.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

ATi made dual-GPUs work, though.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: scottb75
Last time they tried this was the 7950GX2 which was replaced at the top by the 8800GTX only a few months after. I have faith that the 9800GX2 like the 7950GX2 is just there to hold us over until the next gen GTX comes along.

yeah, I wouldn't bother with the 9800gx2, especially since nvidia has publicly stated that their next gen arch will be a single gpu. AMD, otoh, has publicly stated that they are going to continue down the path of multi-gpu chips on a single pcb, so their drivers should continue to get better and better over time. Your best bet is to either get a 3870x2 or try to hold out for 2H 08 for the next gen arch of nividia.

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
ATi made dual-GPUs work, though.

yeah but they chose better design for the 3870 X2 - dual GPUs on one pcb. nV is gonna get the shit burned with their poop toast.

 

[Dropmachine]

I love that nobody gives a company like Nvidia credit. After all, its not like they produce the fastest cards int he world or anything.

Oh wait, they do.

Just because the 7950gx2 didn't go so well, doesn't mean they didn't learn a lesson and will do it right with the 9800GX2.

Astounding that a bunch of guys on forum think they know the right way to do things over a billion-dollar-profit company.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Dropmachine
I love that nobody gives a company like Nvidia credit. After all, its not like they produce the fastest cards int he world or anything.

Oh wait, they do.

Just because the 7950gx2 didn't go so well, doesn't mean they didn't learn a lesson and will do it right with the 9800GX2.

Astounding that a bunch of guys on forum think they know the right way to do things over a billion-dollar-profit company.

yeah we all know big corporations never make mistakes...

 

[Dropmachine]

thats not the point. The point is that good companies LEARN from thier mistakes. Nvidia is, I would say, a good company.

 

[taltamir]

the GX2 is just a gimmick for nvidia to compete with the x2... their real cards will come out VERY soon after... and then we shall see. I expect it to annihilate the competition due to its focused single processor.

Oh, and do give nvidia a little credit, they do make the worlds fastest GPU... the only reason they are twiddling their thumbs right now is because there isn't any competition so they are milking customers for every last dollar.

 

[Killrose]

nvidia doesnt have anything to worry about really. The 8800Ultra wears the crown and its a single chip solution. And if you want more power than that you add another one. However ATi seems to have a very nice implementation of 2 cores on one PCB and though nvidia doesnt have anything to worry about now, I do think they are a little worried about future ATi releases. The 9800 GX2 just seems like a poorly executed knee-jerk reaction.

 

[s44]

This just tells you how great the 8800GTX originally was.

 

[ricleo2]

I feel like I have been waiting forever on the next generation nvidia card. Couple that with short and lousy pc games and I have lost interest in building a new high end computer. In fact I just ordered all 3 Quake games for 20 bucks. Can't wait to play them again but on the highest settings (on my now old computer).

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: ricleo2
I feel like I have been waiting forever on the next generation nvidia card.

You have been. I really hope the next gen single gpu from nividia will max out crysis in a tri-sli system with a qx9770

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: ricleo2
I just ordered all 3 Quake games for 20 bucks. Can't wait to play them again but on the highest settings.

Yea, Quake 1 is going to rock on a 9800. One million frames per second, finally no flicker with alpha blending enabled!

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: taltamir
the GX2 is just a gimmick for nvidia to compete with the x2... their real cards will come out VERY soon after... and then we shall see. I expect it to annihilate the competition due to its focused single processor.

Oh, and do give nvidia a little credit, they do make the worlds fastest GPU... the only reason they are twiddling their thumbs right now is because there isn't any competition so they are milking customers for every last dollar.

All I hear from you is bla bla bla...

emmm hmmmm

The cards would sport 256bit membus like current ones, but with GDDR5 memories instead, and core clock would be 1050MHz for the HD4870, and it would peak at over 1TFLOPS compared to current HD3870 at 500GFLOPS.

Also, with new PowerPlay+, the cards are claimed to run idle at as low as 10W

Otherwise the featureset would remain the same, DX10.1, UVD etc

HD46x0 series would be running GDDR4 at 256bit membus with 240 shader untis, and one could assume with 16 texture units and 8 ROPs, while HD44x0 have 64 to 128bit membus on DDR2 or GDDR3 memories depending on model, and boast the same 40 shader untis as HD24x0 and HD34x0 series.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Dropmachine
I love that nobody gives a company like Nvidia credit. After all, its not like they produce the fastest cards int he world or anything.

Oh wait, they do.

Just because the 7950gx2 didn't go so well, doesn't mean they didn't learn a lesson and will do it right with the 9800GX2.

Astounding that a bunch of guys on forum think they know the right way to do things over a billion-dollar-profit company.

We're customers and we're demanding what we want. It's capitalism. Nvidia has been dragging ass and the reason doesn't matter. They're entitled to release what they want when they want, and we're entitled to fuss about it.

 

[angry hampster]

jesus christ..2 TFlops/S:Q

 

[Extelleron]

I really believe that R700 will be the return to competition for AMD and that the HD 4870 X2 will be superior to nVidia's next generation card, especially if the information listed there in any way resembles the truth.

If that information is true, it is reasonable to expect that the HD 4870 will be 2X+ the performance of the HD 3870 and that's not considering that R700 will probably be slightly faster (or maybe a lot faster) per clock than the R600 architecture. The HD 4870 specs they were quoting means that it would have over 2X the computing power of the HD 3870, 2X the memory bandwidth, and double the amount of memory (1GB vs 512MB). So it's not at all reasonable, even if R700 is no faster clock-for-clock, that the HD 4870 would be twice as fast as the HD 3870.

Given this, the HD 4870 X2 would be over 2X the performance of the HD 3870 X2, which is already anywhere between 20-55% faster than the 8800GTX (per Anandtech's review), with the average being around 25%~. Given this, nVidia's next generation card, with a single GPU, would have to be at least 2.5X the performance of an 8800GTX and the current G92 parts to compete with the HD 4870 X2.

Is that possible? Perhaps, but it definately isn't going to be easy or cheap for nVidia. nVidia's next gen is 65nm and a single die, AMD's is 55nm and two die. G92 is already 324mm^2, how much more can nVidia fit on a die before the cost becomes unreasonable? RV670 is only 192mm^2, AMD has a lot more room to work with than nVidia and their 2 die solution should improve yields. People may knock the HD 3870 for being slower than the 8800GT, but remember that it is based on a GPU that is 60% the size of G92 and very cheap for AMD to produce.

So my prediction: AMD is competitive in the next round, and perhaps wins performance wise. If HD 4870 X2 is equal to nVidia's next gen in price, then IMO AMD wins because the 4870 X2 will certainly be cheaper to produce.

 

[lopri]

If current rumours are to be believed, 9800GX2 looks very nice. Great performance, and possible 2GB configuration (1GBx2), HDMI port and audio passthrough, etc. But 7950GX2 was nice when it came out, too.. I will wait to see the reviews before getting hammered by marketing talks.