980/970 OC doesn't do anything. [Update]

[hunkeelin]

Hi all. I have another thread comparing the two. This thread I would like to inform you guys that OC doesn't really do anything for either of the cards. What I mean is, yes OC do give you more average fps. For example the 980 is rendering 90fps at stock in scene A; OCing might achieve 110fps.
However, during scenes where the cards are pushed to the limit. For example, 980 rendering at 25fps at stock; oc will yield the same results. There's no difference between 1100mhz vs 1500mhz. This conclusion is based on extensive testing on two 970 and two 980 for cross references. (Both msi twin froze V) in 1080p monitor.

NOTE: As long as the framerate is below 70fps. Ocing doesn't do anything. I want to say 100fps but I am not sure. For one I am sure, when I'm gaming between 10~60fps, oc yield no improvement. My testing games are bf4, crysis3, and metro at the highest setting possible. My cpu is 5960x @ 4.4

 

[SlowSpyder]

Are you sure you aren't CPU limited at those portions of a game where the GPU overclock isn't helping increase FPS?

 

[Stuka87]

Sounds like your are CPU limited. You need to graph out your CPU usage while going through those areas on a per core basis. If the game supports lets say two cores, and you have four, you will be at 50% total CPU (all cores combined). But only because those two cores are pegged.

 

[bystander36]

^ and often in those games, only 1 thread is the culprit, so you still might not hit 50% yet be held back by the CPU.

 

[Ichigo]

That's why anyone who says CPU isn't important for gaming are straight up casuals. Frames are most important at the minimum.

 

[SlowSpyder]

That's why anyone who says CPU isn't important for gaming are straight up casuals. Frames are most important at the minimum.

I believe the CPU isn't that important, really. Label me however you will. The vast majority of the time, at settings I use in real world gaming, my CPU is not an issue at all. There are times when my video card use is less than 99% due to my CPU (even at 5.2GHz, single threaded games can be CPU limited on my FX). But in those instances, my frame rate is usually quite acceptable even if the CPU is the limiting factor.

Something will always limit your FPS, no one gets infinite frame rates at maxed settings. Most of the time the GPU is the limiting factor, sometimes the CPU. As long as the frame rate is acceptable, it really doesn't make a difference.

 

[bystander36]

It all depends on the game, and your FPS target. There are plenty of games where getting to 60 FPS requires a fast CPU, and in some cases, usually in multiplayer, it is not even possible to maintain 60 FPS. In these games, a fast CPU is important.

 

[Ichigo]

Because it doesn't really matter to me if the game averages 140 or 160 fps on my 120hz monitor. But if the minimum framerate is 70 vs 50 that matters a lot. It's that simple. One of these is a practical difference.

You say "as long as the frame rate is acceptable" which just indicates to me you're okay with those kinds of frame drops whereas a lot of people find that very frustrating. It's probably fine for your real world single player games.

 

[hunkeelin]

So are you guys telling me a 5960x @ 4.4ghz is bottlenecking? lol? Even at stock i doubt it will bottleneck anything. Read my sig.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Because it doesn't really matter to me if the game averages 140 or 160 fps on my 120hz monitor. But if the minimum framerate is 70 vs 50 that matters a lot. It's that simple. One of these is a practical difference.

You say "as long as the frame rate is acceptable" which just indicates to me you're okay with those kinds of frame drops whereas a lot of people find that very frustrating. It's probably fine for your real world single player games.

In my experiences when you get a low minimum frame rate due to a CPU limitation, it doesn't matter too much what CPU you have. You can choose between crappy and crappier experiences. Hypothetically, if the OP's 5960X is chugging down to 25FPS in some cases, what would my 5.2GHz FX do there? 15-20FPS? Who cares, either situation can ruin immersion for some people and are noticeable drops in performance from what is otherwise smooth gameplay. If the game runs smoothly otherwise, either system will have a noticeable slow down at that portion.

 

[SlowSpyder]

So are you guys telling me a 5960x @ 4.4ghz is bottlenecking my stuff?

Hard to say without knowing the games / settings in particular. But with two GTX970's / GTX980's in SLI and overclocked, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that at certain points in some games or benches, yes, your CPU can bottleneck you.

 

[Paul98]

CPU bottleneck is really helped by mantle, and will in the future be helped by DX12.

But yeah, minimums are really key for me also, I don't care if a game has a high average fps if it drops to below 40 at certain points.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I just want to add, I'm looking (but can't find so far) BFG10K's CPU update results. If I recall correctly he went from a 2500k to a 4770k (4790k?) and tested FPS over a wide variety of games he plays at real world settings he uses. I forget the exact numbers, but I want to say the average performance increase was quite small, under 10% I believe.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Read your update, try moving your CPU back to stock frequencies and bench it in the trouble areas, then bump it back up to your OC and bench it. See if that changes your FPS. My guess is you are CPU bound in a few spots.

 

[96Firebird]

I just want to add, I'm looking (but can't find so far) BFG10K's CPU update results. If I recall correctly he went from a 2500k to a 4770k (4790k?) and tested FPS over a wide variety of games he plays at real world settings he uses. I forget the exact numbers, but I want to say the average performance increase was quite small, under 10% I believe.

Average was 6% gain going from 2500k to 4790k...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389580

BTW - Little tip, it was pretty easy to find. Just use advanced search and limit your search to threads started by BFG10K in the VC&G forum.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Average was 6% gain going from 2500k to 4790k...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389580

BTW - Little tip, it was pretty easy to find. Just use advanced search and limit your search to threads started by BFG10K in the VC&G forum.

Since it was a CPU upgrade I only looked in CPU and OC'ing, thought it was there. At any rate, thanks!

 

[bystander36]

I just want to add, I'm looking (but can't find so far) BFG10K's CPU update results. If I recall correctly he went from a 2500k to a 4770k (4790k?) and tested FPS over a wide variety of games he plays at real world settings he uses. I forget the exact numbers, but I want to say the average performance increase was quite small, under 10% I believe.

But, that 10% is the average. The minimums are what improve the most from a faster CPU. That 10% might actually be more like a 20-30% increase on the minimums. And you should know that most online versions of every game, have a much higher CPU requirement and those tests aren't showing multiplayer versions of those games.

 

[sxr7171]

So are you guys telling me a 5960x @ 4.4ghz is bottlenecking? lol? Even at stock i doubt it will bottleneck anything. Read my sig.

Your sig did not state the O/C.

You seem to be very interested and willing to study these effects as much as we are interested in learning about them. It wouldn't be a terrible idea to have a CPU plot running if only to rule it out. Without ruling it out it's hard to make any assertion about GPU overclocking and where it stumbles. And then maybe we could figure out what the bottleneck is.

 

[SlowSpyder]

But, that 10% is the average. The minimums are what improve the most from a faster CPU. That 10% might actually be more like a 20-30% increase on the minimums. And you should know that most online versions of every game, have a much higher CPU requirement and those tests aren't showing multiplayer versions of those games.

Ok, but what do you get when you add 20% - 30% to the minimums? If a game drops to 10FPS, you get 12-13FPS. If it drops to 25FPS, with a 30% higher bump you get 32.5FPS. I'm not saying it doesn't help at all to have a faster CPU, but in the parts where there are big drops it will still hurts immersion whether you have a monster CPU or not.

 

[bystander36]

Ok, but what do you get when you add 20% - 30% to the minimums? If a game drops to 10FPS, you get 12-13FPS. If it drops to 25FPS, with a 30% higher bump you get 32.5FPS. I'm not saying it doesn't help at all to have a faster CPU, but in the parts where there are big drops it will still hurts immersion whether you have a monster CPU or not.

Most games that have CPU bottlenecks, drop to no lower than the 30's, except in extreme situations. If you are playing DayZ, for example, in multiplayer, you might see lows around 30 on one system, and 40-50 on a faster CPU. That is pretty significant.

Here is a real life example:
I was playing Riven 2 on my i7 920. It had reset to default clocks of 2.67Ghz (didn't realize it), and I was getting drops to 30 FPS constantly. I OC'ed it to 3.9Ghz later, and my FPS were not dropping below 50 FPS and usually over 70 FPS. I do not know how or why that clock increase increase my FPS by nearly double, even though my clocks were increased by less than 50%, but it did. DA2 had a similar effect.

The point being, you have a fast CPU, so you don't run into a lot of CPU bottlenecks, but you do. People with slow AMD CPU's are all over the forums crying about drops in FPS.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Most games that have CPU bottlenecks, drop to no lower than the 30's, except in extreme situations. If you are playing DayZ, for example, in multiplayer, you might see lows around 30 on one system, and 40-50 on a faster CPU. That is pretty significant.

Here is a real life example:
I was playing Riven 2 on my i7 920. It had reset to default clocks of 2.67Ghz (didn't realize it), and I was getting drops to 30 FPS constantly. I OC'ed it to 3.9Ghz later, and my FPS were not dropping below 50 FPS and usually over 70 FPS. I do not know how or why that clock increase increase my FPS by nearly double, even though my clocks were increased by less than 50%, but it did. DA2 had a similar effect.

The point being, you have a fast CPU, do you don't run into a lot of CPU bottlenecks, but you do. People with slow AMD CPU's are all over the forums crying about drops in FPS.

The OP has an Intel CPU and is complaining about dropping as low as 10FPS in some areas (imagine if he had a slow AMD CPU, that could be as low as 6-7FPS!), that's why I started with that number. I'm not saying the CPU makes no difference, of course it can and does. But, in my experiences when a game is running silky smooth and drops below 'silky smooth', I don't care if it is 44FPS or 30FPS, you notice it when it drops. And in my experience that's what you're dealing with when it comes to bottlenecks in otherwise smooth gameplay. It doesn't matter that one benches higher than the other, when it drops you feel it when gameplay is otherwise locked at 60FPS. But, most of the time, unless you have a ton of graphics horsepower, at real world settings you are graphics limited anyway.

Not sure how you got 67% more performance out of a 46% overclock... :\ I have an 18% overclock over my 4.4GHz base. Not for any real need, but I have all this water cooling stuff... might as well tame the 220w TDP beast.

 

[bystander36]

Not sure how you got 67% more performance out of a 46% overclock... :\ I have an 18% overclock over my 4.4GHz base. Not for any real need, but I have all this water cooling stuff... might as well tame the 220w TDP beast.

I'm not sure how that happened either, but it seems to make a huge difference in that one game. I know other games see market improvements, and make many games playable.

I might also note, he didn't say that he specifically was getting 10 FPS. He stated that when in the 10~60 FPS range, that no amount of GPU OC is helping, which clearly means he's bottlenecked by something other than the GPU.

NOTE: As long as the framerate is below 70fps. Ocing doesn't do anything. I want to say 100fps but I am not sure. For one I am sure, when I'm gaming between 10~60fps, oc yield no improvement. My testing games are bf4, crysis3, and metro at the highest setting possible. My cpu is 5960x @ 4.4

 

[Rvenger]

OP, you already have a 980/970 thread. I suggest you use that one instead of creating a new one every time you have a thought.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2418138

Rvenger
Anandtech Super Moderator