98.2 of Icelanders reject bank bailout that'd equal a 25% paycut for next 8 years

[Jhhnn]

Why should icelanders pay for the follies of a few banking execs?

Well, they did profit from them, for awhile, but not to the extent of the liabilities incurred, that's for sure...

There's only ~350K Icelanders, so maybe they'll all emigrate, and the last guy out can turn off the lights...

 

[Zebo]

Its a debt. It is not guaranteed. You can always default on your debt. You just lose credit.

Exactly. Take your loses and move on. Shame we didnt do that but instead indebted us for generations to the richest Americans. (and don't tell me about the tbill y'all have grandma got ya)

 

[alphatarget1]

There's only ~350K Icelanders, so maybe they'll all emigrate, and the last guy out can turn off the lights...

Reminds me of South Park when Kyle paid off everyone's debt LOL

 

[werepossum]

Why should icelanders pay for the follies of a few banking execs?

Assuming Mxylplyx is correct, Icesave was guaranteed by the government of Iceland, much as US banks are backed by the US government. Iceland is thus on the hook for that money, and since governments do not produce wealth, that wealth must be generated from the Icelandic people. Although as Senseamp and Hacp among others have pointed out, the country can default on its promises, in which case it will not be allowed to join the EU and will probably face severe trade penalties.

The benefits of government go hand in hand with the liabilities of government. There is no free lunch.

 

[zephyrprime]

Assuming Mxylplyx is correct, Icesave was guaranteed by the government of Iceland, much as US banks are backed by the US government. Iceland is thus on the hook for that money, and since governments do not produce wealth, that wealth must be generated from the Icelandic people. Although as Senseamp and Hacp among others have pointed out, the country can default on its promises, in which case it will not be allowed to join the EU and will probably face severe trade penalties.

The benefits of government go hand in hand with the liabilities of government. There is no free lunch.

True in principle but not in fact. Look at Greece. They've defaulted on their debt 52% of the time over the last 100 years. It only takes them a few years to get loans again after a default. Look at Argentina. They defaulted and after a few years, they were rip roaring again after losing the albatross of debt. And trade sanctions? Forget about it.

And being part of the EU is of dubious monetary benefit. It seems like most countries want to join it just to be part of the party.

The truth of the matter is, banks create most all of the money they lend out of thin air. This being the case, their opportunity cost of not lending is higher than it would otherwise be if full reserve banking were in effect. So, banks don't have much incentive to not lend and they have a strong incentive to lend even when credit is bad.

The logical thing for countries to do is the rack up big, unsustainable debts slowly over time and then intentionally default. This would be the optimal strategy for maximum profit for countries (assuming that is what you want). The losers in the game would be the countries who are prudent.

 

[werepossum]

True in principle but not in fact. Look at Greece. They've defaulted on their debt 52% of the time over the last 100 years. It only takes them a few years to get loans again after a default. Look at Argentina. They defaulted and after a few years, they were rip roaring again after losing the albatross of debt. And trade sanctions? Forget about it.

And being part of the EU is of dubious monetary benefit. It seems like most countries want to join it just to be part of the party.

The truth of the matter is, banks create most all of the money they lend out of thin air. This being the case, their opportunity cost of not lending is higher than it would otherwise be if full reserve banking were in effect. So, banks don't have much incentive to not lend and they have a strong incentive to lend even when credit is bad.

The logical thing for countries to do is the rack up big, unsustainable debts slowly over time and then intentionally default. This would be the optimal strategy for maximum profit for countries (assuming that is what you want). The losers in the game would be the countries who are prudent.

That's true I suppose. I guess countries are always "too big to fail". Interesting that countries are being taught the same thing as individuals and corporations.

 

[JSt0rm]

Well if it comes to a vote in 30 years

"do you want to pay for the dead baby boomers excesses?" I would say fuck you

 

[zephyrprime]

That's true I suppose. I guess countries are always "too big to fail". Interesting that countries are being taught the same thing as individuals and corporations.

Interestingly, it's actually individuals and corporations that are only just now learning how to be too big to fail. Countries have enjoyed this status for millenia. The history of sovereign defaults is colorful and entertaining.

 

[werepossum]

Interestingly, it's actually individuals and corporations that are only just now learning how to be too big to fail. Countries have enjoyed this status for millenia. The history of sovereign defaults is colorful and entertaining.

You know, I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're absolutely right. Even in medieval times, when the sovereign got into too much debt he would just recall all the coin and debase it, or else simply imprison those he owed.

You're pretty smart. I had all those pieces and didn't put it together.

(Not that "even in medieval times" is farther back than millennia, obviously, it's just the oldest period with whose economics I'm reasonably familiar.)

 

[StageLeft]

Well if it comes to a vote in 30 years

"do you want to pay for the dead baby boomers excesses?" I would say fuck you

I wish we'd say it now. Frankly these assholes have left our generation with a ton more debt than their parents left them. And if we're like our fathers we'll do the same to our kids won't we? I hope our kids tell us to screw off, we deserve it for putting them in that position.

 

[JSt0rm]

I wish we'd say it now. Frankly these assholes have left our generation with a ton more debt than their parents left them. And if we're like our fathers we'll do the same to our kids won't we? I hope our kids tell us to screw off, we deserve it for putting them in that position.

Well the boomers children on a whole do less well then they did, they (the boomers) are the catalyst of failure in this country. I'm sure the greatest generation didn't realize how spoiled they were making their children.

We need things like single payer health care to rein in costs. Those spoiled shits will take until they are in the ground. Hell even with their deaths there will probably be a shortage of funeral plots and a plot bubble will hit our generation. Fucking assholes.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

If its that easy, the US should get there first. Take all the women for breeding and use the men as day-laborers

Hawt Icelandic women!

Maybe the U.S. should claim Iceland and then sell it to China in exchange for China forgiving our loan debt. (Iceland probably isn't worth that amount.)

 

[werepossum]

Hawt Icelandic women!

Maybe the U.S. should claim Iceland and then sell it to China in exchange for China forgiving our loan debt. (Iceland probably isn't worth that amount.)

LOL
Iceland might be worth that amount if you consider that sooner or later we all know China is going to get stiffed on its US debt.

Skoorb - I'm a boomer and I almost always vote Republican or Libertarian in national elections. We don't all want to vote ourselves money taken from other people, but there just aren't many good choices. Face it, free money taken from other people you don't know is a big selling point among all demographics.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think your characterization wrt boomers is really unfair, guys. It wasn't boomers so much as our parents who were suckered by Reagan&Co, which is where our own fiscal problems really started.

You really need to look to divides that are more regional and class related than generational to understand how things came to be the way they are, and to the deceptions inherent in the Republican pitch...

I think it's important to remember that Boomers agreed to pay it forward, to pay more into SS than has been coming out ever since 1983, to account for the demographic bulge. Not that it'll do us much good, given the explosive federal debt taken on by every repub president from Reagan until today... Basically, boomers and debt have taken up the slack created by serial taxcuts at the top... not that it's what we thought we were doing, but that's what happened...