97% of police complaints resulted in no punishment to cops

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GarfieldtheCat

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Jan 7, 2005
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/19/u...ice-result-in-discipline-data-shows.html?_r=0

Once again, this isn't anecdotal evidence. This is the Chicago PD actual records, so this is a systemic issue of abuse. Just like the systemic racism in several states worth of police.

Yup, no institutional issues here, no sir. The system works, obviously 97% of the people complaining are all lying about the cops abuse them. For 2015, it's 99% of all complaints result in no punishment.

Anyone really believe this? Bueller? Bueller?

One interesting point, black police officers are twice as likely to be disciplined as a result of complaints then white officers.

Glad to see institutional racism still at work here. Cops are discriminate against their own based on skin color, not just other civilians.

African-American officers were punished at twice the rate of their white colleagues for the same offenses, the data shows.

And complaints from white people were more likely to have their complaints upheld as well.

And although black civilians filed a majority of the complaints, white civilians were far more likely to have their complaints upheld, according to the records.

And look at this fine upstanding cop:

In 18 years with the Chicago Police Department, the nation’s second-largest, Jerome Finnigan had never been disciplined — although 68 citizen complaints had been lodged against him, including accusations that he used excessive force and regularly conducted illegal searches.

Then, in 2011, he admitted to robbing criminal suspects while serving in an elite police unit and ordering a hit on a fellow police officer he thought intended to turn him in. He was sentenced to 12 years in prison. “My bosses knew what I was doing out there, and it went on and on,” he said in court when he pleaded guilty. “And this wasn’t the exception to the rule. This was the rule.”

Wow, 68 complaints, all ignored or white-washed. And he admits this is common practice and his superiors knew about it.

So fewbadapplse? Or perhaps lotsofbadapplse?
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
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and here i thought only african elections could be that efficient...
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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Almost every would-be thief we've ever deterred where I work goes on to file complaints against my coworkers while asserting their innocence, often making things up to get back at us even when we never made an accusation. Usually they were caught red-handed but "customer serviced to death" until they ditched it making a stop/arrest unnecessary, then they went home, complained to mommy, and mommy filed a corporate complaint. There's a word for it: Sour grapes.

Some of them have dared to come back after expressing faux offense, stolen again, and been arrested. :awe: I love it when that happens.

Sorry, OP. You thought you had a point, but 97% sounds about right. These complaints are almost always motivated by sour grapes and/or misguided indignation. Most are bogus. THAT'S why so many are dismissed. It's kind of silly that you would believe many more have merit and can be acted on.
 
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fskimospy

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Mar 10, 2006
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Almost every would-be thief we've ever deterred where I work goes on to file complaints against my coworkers while asserting their innocence, often making things up to get back at us even when we never made an accusation. Usually they were caught red-handed but "customer serviced to death" until they ditched it making a stop/arrest unnecessary, then they went home, complained to mommy, and mommy filed a corporate complaint. There's a word for it: Sour grapes.

Some of them have dared to come back after expressing faux offense, stolen again, and been arrested. :awe: I love it when that happens.

Sorry, OP. You thought you had a point, but 97% sounds about right. These complaints are almost always motivated by sour grapes and/or misguided indignation. Most are bogus. THAT'S why so many are dismissed. It's kind of silly that you would believe many more have merit and can be acted on.

Not so sure about that. The CCRB in NYC investigates complaints against police by citizens and finds that about 17% of the ones they investigate are substantiated in at least one allegation.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/html/faq/faq.shtml#a19

While I agree that on average a complaint is likely not to be true (or at least not with sufficient evidence to be likely true), but 3%? I sincerely doubt it.
 

Enigmoid

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Sep 27, 2012
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Not so sure about that. The CCRB in NYC investigates complaints against police by citizens and finds that about 17% of the ones they investigate are substantiated in at least one allegation.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/html/faq/faq.shtml#a19

While I agree that on average a complaint is likely not to be true (or at least not with sufficient evidence to be likely true), but 3%? I sincerely doubt it.

Well sure, but the next sentence directly contradicts the OP.

19. Q. What percentage of cases are substantiated? A. In 2014, the CCRB completed 1,917 full investigations and substantiated at least one allegation in 327 complaints or 17.1% of fully investigated cases.

20. Q. How many officers have been disciplined as a result of CCRB investigations? A. In 2014, the police commissioner disciplined 103 officers, a disciplinary action rate on substantiated CCRB complaints of 73%

Also seems contradictory.

Some probably are true. But the vast majority of complaints are probably bogus. Others may be true as well but not severe enough to result in disciplinary measures.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Not so sure about that. The CCRB in NYC investigates complaints against police by citizens and finds that about 17% of the ones they investigate are substantiated in at least one allegation.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/html/faq/faq.shtml#a19

While I agree that on average a complaint is likely not to be true (or at least not with sufficient evidence to be likely true), but 3%? I sincerely doubt it.

How you define complaint is probably an important factor here, as well as how you validate legitimate ones. A complaint of "the officer was very rude" is an entirely different matter than "he tasered me without cause." Using a generic example of "office used excessive force," what's the metric you'd use for determination? Reasonable man standard, presence of bruises or other injuries, the subjective opinion of the complainant or witness (the "I'll know it when I see it" standard), something else entirely?

Also important is what the nature of the review was - for example if complaints are being analyzed for possible referral for criminal charges, the burden of proof is likely far higher than if the result is merely an administrative remedy like counseling, adverse performance review, etc.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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How you define complaint is probably an important factor here, as well as how you validate legitimate ones. A complaint of "the officer was very rude" is an entirely different matter than "he tasered me without cause." Using a generic example of "office used excessive force," what's the metric you'd use for determination? Reasonable man standard, presence of bruises or other injuries, the subjective opinion of the complainant or witness (the "I'll know it when I see it" standard), something else entirely?

According to the FAQ they use the preponderance of the evidence standard, the same that's used in civil court. It would be interesting to see what percentage are 'he was mean to me', but the FAQ says that 51% of their investigations involve excessive force. Not sure what percentage of the excessive force are substantiated though.

Also important is what the nature of the review was - for example if complaints are being analyzed for possible referral for criminal charges, the burden of proof is likely far higher than if the result is merely an administrative remedy like counseling, adverse performance review, etc.

From the FAQ there appear to be several different levels. The lowest is the commissioner making a ruling, for more serious charges they go to some sort of disciplinary trial and I believe if it's actually a serious crime they skip the whole civilian complaint thing entirely and handle it criminally.

I imagine Chicago investigates cops for fairly similar things, and only 3% are disciplined. That to me seems implausibly low.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
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Well sure, but the next sentence directly contradicts the OP.



Also seems contradictory.

Some probably are true. But the vast majority of complaints are probably bogus. Others may be true as well but not severe enough to result in disciplinary measures.

Based on your data, only 17% of legitimate complaints result in any action.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
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Based on your data, only 17% of legitimate complaints result in any action.

17% of claims were substantiated. These may be a variety of claims including "he/she was rude/loud/etc" or if for example, the person was asked to leave and did not and was escorted (roughly because they did not want to go) out. 17% of claims NOT 17% of legitimate claims.

It appears that of the legitimate claims, 73% resulted in discliplinary action. Which is about right depending on the severity.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Almost every would-be thief we've ever deterred where I work goes on to file complaints against my coworkers while asserting their innocence, often making things up to get back at us even when we never made an accusation. Usually they were caught red-handed but "customer serviced to death" until they ditched it making a stop/arrest unnecessary, then they went home, complained to mommy, and mommy filed a corporate complaint. There's a word for it: Sour grapes.

Some of them have dared to come back after expressing faux offense, stolen again, and been arrested. :awe: I love it when that happens.

Sorry, OP. You thought you had a point, but 97% sounds about right. These complaints are almost always motivated by sour grapes and/or misguided indignation. Most are bogus. THAT'S why so many are dismissed. It's kind of silly that you would believe many more have merit and can be acted on.

So the 68 complaints against an officer/criminal who later plead guilty to charges of robbing people and trying to put a hit on a fellow officer were all (or at least 97%) bogus? Yeah right. How about the cops caught on camera telling people that they will make up charges just to falsely arrest someone? If it ain't caught on camera how many of those do you think make it into the 97% versus the 3%?

In the cops own words, most are willing to either break the law or look the other way when a fellow cop breaks the law. Doesn't get anymore "real" then that.
 
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