95 Prizm (Carolla) 1.6L SOHC... (Update)

[Blain]

UPDATE: The problem turned out to be a cracked ignition coil.


My old 95 Geo Prizm crapped out on me yesterday.
* Drove out of a parking lot and engine lost power, puff of smoke comes up from under the hood, finally died.
* I let it set a minute or two, the engine restarts and runs at a lower power.
* I make it about 4 or 5 blocks and the engine stalls and dies again.
* Got it towed home, the engine cranks fine but doesn't even try to start.

My past vehicle repair experience screams "Timing Belt" has shot craps.
The car has about 110k on the original timing set.

Before I sink any time or cash into this job, one critical question remains...
Is the 95 1.6L (single overhead cam) engine an Interference or Non-interference model?
I've Googled but found conflicting information.

I'm as tight as the bark on a tree, so "repair" is a much favored option over "replace" the car.


Me looking at the camera while showing off my flashy 1968 Simca (back in the day).

 

[exdeath]

If it was interference, you'd know by now.

I don't think it's timing belt if it's stalling then starting again fine and cranking without issue. It certainly wouldn't restart again or crank fine with a broken timing belt regardless of being interference or not.

Is it cranking with the same speed/sound it normally does?

 

[alpineranger]

Non interference from all I've read over the years. Also, one of my friends had that gen prizm and had the timing belt snap on him. No lasting damage.

 

[Blain]

When it restarted it ran at a lower power for the 4 or 5 blocks.
I figured the belt had slipped/skipped a tooth or two at that point, then finally skipped too far to stay running.

There is no odd noise when cranking. It reminds me of other vehicles I've replaced timing chains/belts on...
Cranks over just fine, but fails to fire.

 

[dawp]

usually belts don't jump timing, they tend to either break or the teeth get stripped. I've had both happen, the only time I had an engine jump timing was a V8 with a chain and gears.

 

[exdeath]

When it restarted it ran at a lower power for the 4 or 5 blocks.
I figured the belt had slipped/skipped a tooth or two at that point, then finally skipped too far to stay running.

There is no odd noise when cranking. It reminds me of other vehicles I've replaced timing chains/belts on...
Cranks over just fine, but fails to fire.

It's very easy to tell when it's cranking fast and there is no compression.

 

[exdeath]

usually belts don't jump timing, they tend to either break or the teeth get stripped. I've had both happen, the only time I had an engine jump timing was a V8 with a chain and gears.

Tensioner idler assembly not replaced with belt and subsequently failing, loose oil pump sprocket rounding out it's key hole, I've seen a few examples where the timing belt was able to jump a tooth and still run.

 

[exdeath]

When it restarted it ran at a lower power for the 4 or 5 blocks.
I figured the belt had slipped/skipped a tooth or two at that point, then finally skipped too far to stay running.

There is no odd noise when cranking. It reminds me of other vehicles I've replaced timing chains/belts on...
Cranks over just fine, but fails to fire.

Could be anything. Start with basic spark and fuel pressure. Cranks but doesn't start is the most desirable condition to troubleshoot; you can only *dream* that some random intermittent problem eventually degrades to this.

Mechanical timing problem can be ruled out just by observing the position of the distributor (rotor) if you don't want to pull the timing cover back and take a peek just yet.

 

[Blain]

As long as the engine is Non-interference it's worth the time for me to at least tear it down to investigate.

I'm on vacation this coming week, but had other plans rather than work on the old Geo.
:$ That's life I guess...

Are 1.6L timing belts known for lasting longer than 110k miles?

 

[gururu2]

The timing belt on my acura integra (interference) snapped while stoppped at a traffic light. Car just died, but electrical was fine, so it cranked. Foolishly and embarassed for the predicament, I cranked it at least a few dozen times before opting to have it towed. Before mechanic looked at it he told me over the phone it was probably toast. Once he had it, he couldn't find any problems and it had fine compression with a new belt.
The fact that yours stalled a couple times but still turned on IMO doesnt suggest timing belt. Mabe ignition coil?

 

[Blain]

Would a coil explain the small backfire through the intake (puff of smoke coming from under the hood)?

 

[exdeath]

Would a coil explain the small backfire through the intake (puff of smoke coming from under the hood)?

Could have been from the PCV backing up through the intake inlet with the engine running so rough and trying to stay alive, no vacuum, etc.

You haven't even popped the hood yet, you could have had an electrical fire and a burned up harness making smoke and preventing the engine from starting for all we know

 

[Blain]

Of course I've opened the hood. No signs of fire.

 

[LTC8K6]

Crank Position Sensor?

Distributor Rotor?

 

[Blain]

I've got the engine tore down to view the cam position at TDC.
Monday I plan on pulling the bottom timing cover off to see if the crank and cam are timed correctly.

 

[jlee]

You have a 4A-FE engine (non-interference) but I don't know the timing belt service interval. However, if it hasn't been done yet (by 110k), it should.

I've got the engine tore down to view the cam position at TDC.
Monday I plan on pulling the bottom timing cover off to see if the crank and cam are timed correctly.

Good luck!

 

[redgtxdi]

If you haven't already, you might wanna post this over on toyotanation too. I have a '95 Prizm 1.6L myself & have rec'd much help there!!

Usually a good giveaway that you'll usually hear before a timing belt goes is it'll slap pretty loud & rattle the belt guard when it's getting tired.

I'll be curious to see what your prob is.

 

[hanoverphist]

check your fuel pump and filter. i had a similar incident recently with my civic 1.6L. turned out to be a worn out fuel pump that was working, but not pumping enough to make it run other than rough idle. after a few times of restarting and a few blocks dying it quit altogether. the pump still hummed tho, threw us off until i did a pressure test. that was after my mechanic friend had the timing cover pulled.

 

[Blain]

Well I'm planning a tool shopping trip to Harbor Freight this morning.
I know I'll buy more than I need, but that's part of the Harbor Freight experience.

On a side note, my wife and I have three vehicles.
The Prizm went down so I switched over to my F150.
I loaded some fire wood into the bed yesterday to take to my dad.
I had the truck was idling for about two or three minutes for the cab to cool down.
I then heard the engine stop... And it hasn't started yet.
It to cranks like the wind with the fresh battery I installed a few days ago.
I checked the fuses and swapped relays around trying to get it to start... Nothing

I'm on vacation this week and didn't plan to work on one vehicle much less two that wouldn't start.
A tow truck packed off the truck to a friend's repair shop.

:\ It's turning into one of those weeks...
At least I'll score a butt-load of tools to brighten my day.

 

[redgtxdi]

Geez Loueeeez......what a week!!

Well.....I, in fact, happen to have an F150 too.....LOL!!!! And as such.....can also recommend F150online.com. Those folks are as knowledgable on the Fords as the Toyota folks on toyotanation.

As I literally just google your prob, this came up (I don't know what year/engine, etc. yours is, but just some gab on the matter in general).......

http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...t-died-while-driving-wont-start-no-spark.html

 

[Blain]

Geez Loueeeez......what a week!!

Oh wait, it gets better!

I started to mow my grass yesterday, hit something and bent the blade.
I get in my wife's car to go get a new blade.
It's hot so I lower the rear window... Which then got stuck in the down position.
The cable/track has bound up and needs replaced.

Update: The F150 problem was a blown radio spark suppressor, which zapped one of the diodes in the fuse block when it died.
My friend told me it took out the diode which was better than getting back to the computer comntroller.

Having replaced one of my wife's window motor assemblies last year, I went ahead and ordered one for the left rear and front passenger side.
Both motor/track units ran me a total of $159.11 shipped, which I thought was a really good price.
Rock Auto really does ROCK! Especially with a 5% discount code found by Googling.
I told you I was cheap.

My father-in-law just got out of the hospital...
What a week it's been!

 

[redgtxdi]

Indeed! That's just a list & a half right there!!

Well, nice that you got the truck figured out & know what you're up against on the window prob. (Still waaaay cheaper than a new car payment, eh?)

Now we just need to get the Prizm up & running & it'll be all good..........at least until you wake up tomorrow......LOL!

 

[Blain]

My John Deere mower (JS40), is now making a knocking sound... once I finally got it to start.
Once I get my truck back, drop off the firewood, I think I'm going to pick up a commercial grade Honda mower. The HRC216K3HXA or maybe the HRX217K2HXA.

The shop just called about the truck. It's going to be $208 which includes the towing charge.
Not as bad as I expected.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

You have a 4A-FE engine (non-interference) but I don't know the timing belt service interval. However, if it hasn't been done yet (by 110k), it should.



Good luck!

6 years or 60k miles from my googling... so it should soon be due it's second by now by milage or nearing it's third by age...

 

[Blain]

Here's the cam alignment (used an allen wrench through the hole to align with timing mark).
Here's the crank pully alignment with timing tab.
The timing mark at the crank V notch is marked as "0".
I'm assuming it is TDC.
Is the crank off enough to keep it from starting?