91.47 Driver Enables (and continues) Transparent AA on 6 Series Cards

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: wizboy11

Originally posted by: yacoub
Hey, just curious what the difference in AA quality is between, say, 4xTRAA and 4xS AA. I see an option called "4xS" AA in my list of available AA options in NTweak. I think there's also a TRAA mode but I am curious which looks better and which performs better. Thanks.

4xS doesn't work on the modern cards since they can't perform it anymore.

Transparent AA (TRAA) performce AA to Alpha Textures like trees, fences, etc. It's completly different from normall AA and is independent as well.

Don't you have an ATI video card?? (according to rig in sig)

4xS seems to work fine with nhancer on my 6600gt and 6800gt. it's just 2x2 supersampling by itself isn't it? I tested it and discovered the edjes were still not as good as regular 4xMSAA, but alpha stuff like trees as well as texture crawling was much better.

btw is 91.45 coming out on nvidias site anytime? i still see 91.31 as latest

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: wizboy11

Originally posted by: yacoub
Hey, just curious what the difference in AA quality is between, say, 4xTRAA and 4xS AA. I see an option called "4xS" AA in my list of available AA options in NTweak. I think there's also a TRAA mode but I am curious which looks better and which performs better. Thanks.

4xS doesn't work on the modern cards since they can't perform it anymore.

Transparent AA (TRAA) performce AA to Alpha Textures like trees, fences, etc. It's completly different from normall AA and is independent as well.

Don't you have an ATI video card?? (according to rig in sig)

4xS seems to work fine with nhancer on my 6600gt and 6800gt. it's just 2x2 supersampling by itself isn't it? I tested it and discovered the edjes were still not as good as regular 4xMSAA, but alpha stuff like trees as well as texture crawling was much better.

btw is 91.45 coming out on nvidias site anytime? i still see 91.31 as latest

The driver was designed for the GX2 do I doubt you'll see it on Nvidia'a site anytime soon. By that time there will probably be a different #

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: wizboy11

Originally posted by: yacoub
Hey, just curious what the difference in AA quality is between, say, 4xTRAA and 4xS AA. I see an option called "4xS" AA in my list of available AA options in NTweak. I think there's also a TRAA mode but I am curious which looks better and which performs better. Thanks.

4xS doesn't work on the modern cards since they can't perform it anymore.

Transparent AA (TRAA) performce AA to Alpha Textures like trees, fences, etc. It's completly different from normall AA and is independent as well.

Don't you have an ATI video card?? (according to rig in sig)

4xS seems to work fine with nhancer on my 6600gt and 6800gt. it's just 2x2 supersampling by itself isn't it? I tested it and discovered the edjes were still not as good as regular 4xMSAA, but alpha stuff like trees as well as texture crawling was much better.

btw is 91.45 coming out on nvidias site anytime? i still see 91.31 as latest

I think 4xS uses vertical SS along with 2x MS. The 2x2 mode is different and falls somewhere between 8xS and 16xS.

 

[Gstanfor]

4xS mode comprises 2x MSAA + 1x2 SSAA. I dont use it or the 8xS (old) mode which is 2x MSAA + 2x2 SSAA because of the 2x MSAA component. The jaggies are still far too visible without 4x MSAA in there.

I agree with wizboy11 on farcry too - the thing screams along even with SS:TRAA, no need for MS:TRAA there.

 

[BFG10K]

Plus I find it hard to see the difference (Maby I'm not looking hard enough )

Like I said it depends on the game as it doesn't work in all of them.

In Far Cry and Serious Sam 2 it significantly reduces vegetation sparkle but there's next to no performance hit even in outdoor areas with heavy vegetation.

I also use it in Call of Duty 2 because it increases image quality but doesn't get affected by heavy smoke on the screen.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: fliguy84
It works for my 6800!!

Some screenshots:
4X AA
4X Tr AA (Supersampling)

4X AA
4X Tr AA (Supersampling)

That looks pretty good. :thumbsup:

I am going to install these this weekend.

 

[Gstanfor]

I guess it could be useful in COD2 because of the smoke, I'll grant you that.

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Yep. the MSAA variant is a little useless IMHO.

Why not split the difference and go for 1152x864?

Case at that reso some games run even slower han 1280

 

[Gstanfor]

If the game was poorly programmed, perhaps. I've not come across that situation though, and I've got relatives that use 6600GT's with 17" monitors (not everyone is interested in highend computer stuff) that use 1152x864 when gaming.

 

[hemmy]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
This is a good move on nVidia's part. :thumbsup:

Now both vendors need to pull their finger out and make it work in OpenGL games.

you mean ATI, because TAA works in opengl games on my 6800 (COD, CS 1.6)

 

[SonicIce]

Whats the differance between supersampling TRAA and multisampling TRAA? I mean how do you remove jagged edjes on an alpha texture without supersampling? Then what exactly is the differance between SS TRAA and regular supersamling (without MS). or am i totally on the wrong track?

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
Whats the differance between supersampling TRAA and multisampling TRAA? I mean how do you remove jagged edjes on an alpha texture without supersampling? Then what exactly is the differance between SS TRAA and regular supersamling (without MS). or am i totally on the wrong track?

TRMS really doesn't work THAT well but it does help to remove some of the jaggies in Farcry. TRSS is deffinitly the way to go if your rig can handle it.

Regular 8xS supersampling I belive just expands the image 2x2 then applies 2xMS to it then resizes it to your resolution.

TRSS just applies SSAA to the alpha textures while your regular AA setting applies AA to everything else.

Get it??

 

[BFG10K]

you mean ATI, because TAA works in opengl games on my 6800 (COD, CS 1.6)

Transparency AA does not work under OpenGL and I can confirm it most certainly does not work under CoD.

I haven't tested CS 1.6 but if it's working for you then you're probably running it under Direct3D.

Whats the differance between supersampling TRAA and multisampling TRAA?

Exactly that - super-sampling and multi-sampling.

I mean how do you remove jagged edjes on an alpha texture without supersampling?

Basically it has to do with the alpha test: when regular MSAA is used samples that don't comply are dropped and hence they get no AA. When transparency MS is used some of the samples are kept even if they fail the test.

Then what exactly is the differance between SS TRAA and regular supersamling (without MS). or am i totally on the wrong track?

The main difference is that regular super-sampling renders the image larger and then scales it down, hence it applies super-sampling to everything.

Transparancy SS only applies super-sampling to alpha textures (like vegetation and chain-link fences) but the rest of scene receives regular MSAA.

 

[BFG10K]

Regular 8xS supersampling I belive just expands the image 2x2 then applies 2xMS to it then resizes it to your resolution.

That's the old version (8x).

8xS is actually 4xMSAA + 1x2 SSAA (i.e. two texture samples per pixel with four multi samples applied to each texture sample making a total of eight).

 

[xtknight]

How does multisampling apply to a texture though? Isn't an alpha texture a raster object? Doesn't multisampling deal with vectors? Is 'multisampling transparent AA' a misnomer or am I misunderstanding something?

Just for added clarification I am speaking about this dialog: http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/uti...t_image/10/0,1425,sz=1&i=102005,00.jpg

What the TAA supersampling option does: applies MSAA to all geometry and SSAA to all alpha textures. (is some of the scene not AA'd at all like non-alpha textures (sky, etc)?)

What the TAA multisampling option does: ?

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: xtknight
How does multisampling apply to a texture though? Isn't an alpha texture a raster object? Doesn't multisampling deal with vectors? Is 'multisampling transparent AA' a misnomer or am I misunderstanding something?

Just for added clarification I am speaking about this dialog: http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/uti...t_image/10/0,1425,sz=1&i=102005,00.jpg

What the TAA supersampling option does: applies MSAA to all geometry and SSAA to all alpha textures. (is some of the scene not AA'd at all like non-alpha textures (sky, etc)?)

What the TAA multisampling option does: ?

You're right, it's a misnomer. ATI's naming scheme makes more sense: performance or quality adaptive AA.

Salute to the LCD guru
::salutes::

 

[BFG10K]

How does multisampling apply to a texture though?

The current theory is that when an alpha texture is detected the associated geometry is resubmitted to the pipeline multiple times and jittered each time, hence offsetting the texture position in each case.

This then allows texture AA to occur via regular geometry sampling further along the pipeline, unlike regular MSAA which always has one fixed texture sample regardless of the geometry samples you use.

What the TAA multisampling option does: ?

The simple answer:- it's exactly like super-sampling transparency AA except it uses multi-sampling instead.

 

[SonicIce]

so bascially you wont get the texture crawl-reducing benefits of regular SS with TRSSAA?

 

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

How does multisampling apply to a texture though?

The current theory is that when an alpha texture is detected the associated geometry is resubmitted to the pipeline multiple times and jittered each time, hence offsetting the texture position in each case.

This then allows texture AA to occur via regular geometry sampling further along the pipeline, unlike regular MSAA which always has one fixed texture sample regardless of the geometry samples you use.

What the TAA multisampling option does: ?

The simple answer:- it's exactly like super-sampling transparency AA except it uses multi-sampling instead.

if the card goes through the extra work of messing with the texture and sampling the offsets or whatever, wouldn't it be just as fast as just using TRSS? i dont fully get how TRMS works yet, sorry.

 

[BFG10K]

Correct - TrAA/AAA only affects alpha textures, not regular (solid) textures.

 

[BFG10K]

if the card goes through the extra work of messing with the texture and sampling the offsets or whatever, wouldn't it be just as fast as just using TRSS?

No because we are still dealing with geometry samples so we get the associated cost savings from re-using the same texture sample, unlike SS TrAA which physically has to fetch multiple texture samples.

Remember, the explanation above is only our best theory. If you want to know exactly how it works you'll need to ask an nVidia engineer.

 

[dug777]

FWIW i couldn't see any real impact of the TRMS in hl2, but the TRSS was very impressive.

Was it you BFG who was saying that MS works very well in Farcry tho? I wasn't paying attention to the graphics when i tried that since the XG 91.45s were too busy hating on my overclock i'd carried over from 84.21 ( that was rock solid previously, and is rock solid again with them )...

 

[BFG10K]

FWIW i couldn't see any real impact of the TRMS in hl2,

HL2 is one of the titles where MS TrAA doesn't work.

Was it you BFG who was saying that MS works very well in Farcry tho?

Yes.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
so bascially you wont get the texture crawl-reducing benefits of regular SS with TRSSAA?

you won't if you don't stack it on top of 8xS.

Transparency AA stacks on top of normal AA, which is very nice. The ATi version *should* stack also, but you'll need to get somebody else to confirm that.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

if the card goes through the extra work of messing with the texture and sampling the offsets or whatever, wouldn't it be just as fast as just using TRSS?

No because we are still dealing with geometry samples so we get the associated cost savings from re-using the same texture sample, unlike SS TrAA which physically has to fetch multiple texture samples.

Remember, the explanation above is only our best theory. If you want to know exactly how it works you'll need to ask an nVidia engineer.

Antialiasing with Transparency
Whitepaper (pdf)
sample applet