900mA through each port on a self powered usb hub

quartzz1

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Aug 11, 2018
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Hi,

situation as follows, any info appreciated

I've contacted atollo, the manufacturers of this hub

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071QZ5D7L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00

and heard....nothing.

a standard USB 2 port can supply 500mA?
a 2.5" laptop hard drive takes up to 900mA

question is....can a port on a self-powered hub, supply 900mA through each usb port?

asking because, I might be connecting 2x 2.5" hdd's to the hub using something like

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-3-0-...r-for-External-HDD-SSD-Hard-Disk/173420911991

I believe it's uses the splitter to draw 900mA from 2x onboard usb ports

but since I'm using the hub, I'd prefer not to have to use 4 ports, for 2 hdd's
 
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corkyg

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Hi,
... question is....can a port on a self-powered hub, supply 900mA through each usb port? ...

Yes . . . a good 4 port powered hub can provide 5v/2.5A with a max draw of 900mA per port.
 

quartzz1

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Aug 11, 2018
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thanks, when you say a good hub, do you mean it would like to go to 800, but could produce 900 through one port at a push? or that it should be able to produce (theoretically) up to the amp rating of it's power supply through one port
 

Paperdoc

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Aug 17, 2006
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You are right to pursue the details, and there is a "gotcha" in that Atolla device. Then there's another of less importance in the adapter on eBay.

The Atolla USB Hub has 7 regular USB3 ports, plus a special high-current charging port. EACH standard USB3 port CAN supply up t0 0.9 A current per the USB3 specs, BUT that can NOT be done for ALL of the ports simultaneously. The limit certainly is in the power supply module - it can only deliver up to 3.0 A max to the Hub. So, if you were using devices that actually pull the 0.9 A max for each device, you could only use up to three of them simultaneously. And of course, IF you were trying to use the special charging port to charge something else at its max 2.4 A output, you'd have less than the 0.9 A available at ONE USB3 standard port. This is a common habit in the design of USB3 powered Hubs - the power supply module is not able to supply ALL of the ports at max current simultaneously. The design concept depends on two factors: (a) you won't try to use all ports simultaneously, anyway; and, (b) even if you do, some of the devices (e.g., a mouse) will require much less that the max, so it will work most of the time. For this particular Hub, they make it easier for you to manage this by using a separate switch for each standard USB3 port so you can disconnect unused devices without having to unplug them.

For your purposes in using it with 2½" laptop-style hard drives via those adapters from eBay, you MAY not have a problem. Note that the adapter specifies that it can only be used with 2½" drives, and not the 3½" larger units for desktop machines. That is because the 3½" drive design uses BOTH +12 VDC and +5 VDC power connections, and there is no +12 VDC supply available through a USB3 connection. Among 2½" drives designed for use in laptops, MOST can work with up to 0.9 A at 5 VDC, but that is not ALWAYS the case. Note that the adapter write-up says you plug in the thicker USB3 cable to a USB3 port to get that much power AND use the high-speed data transfer ability of USB3. THEN IF your device still is not getting enough power, you can plug the smaller cable into a different USB port to get more power. It does not specify whether that port should be USB2 or USB3, but that really does not matter. SO, if the HDD units you plan to use can EACH work within the 0.9A max current limit of a single USB3 port, then for each HDD you would only need to use an adapter with the ONE thicker cable plugged into ONE USB3 port of the Hub, and it would handle that two-port load easily with the power module supplied. You really would need to find the specs for the 2½" drives you plan to use to verify this will work.

Your alternative, IF you believe you need more than 3.0 A max current for your purpose, would be to buy a different Hub that has a more powerful power module supplied with it. That CAN get tricky to read the specs. Unlike the particular Hub you linked to, many Hubs come with power modules that output 12 VDC to the Hub, and then the Hub converts to 5 VDC. So the power spec of the module is in WATTS usually (sometimes in A at 12 VDC), and you have to assume that most of those Watts will be available from the Hub's USB3 ports at 5 VDC, with an A rating reached by calculation. For example, if a Hub comes with a power module that puts out 12 VDC at up to 50W (4.17A), then the Hub can dispense that 50 W at 5 VDC, which comes out to max 10A in total for all the Hub's ports. For examples,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00P115F4E/ref=twister_B0797F7WB3?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

is a 7-port powered USB3 Hub including a power module outputting 12 VDC at 2.5A at a price similar to the Atolla one. That means 30 W, so at 5 VDC it can supply up to 6 A to its seven ports, almost up to the 0.9 A max per port - maybe 1 port short.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker®-Pow...sprefix=USB3+powered+hub,computers,340&sr=1-3

is a heavier unit for more money. It has 7 USB3 ports plus 3 charging ports, and a power module of 12 V, 5 A (60 W) output, so that's 12 A max available at 5 VDC, well able to supply the 0.9 A per port to all 7 USB3 ports PLUS spare power for the charging ports simultaneously.
 
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quartzz1

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Hi many thanks

yes - wouldn't be trying to pull 900mA through each of the 7 ports, just basically 2x laptop HDD's on two ports, so ideally a worst case condition of 1.8A through two of the ports, -if- I was connecting each drive at the same time, and they were spinning up simultaneously.

basically spinning up the drive will take about 900mA through one port of the hub, I believe normal usage for the western digital laptop hdd is 1.6W (read/write) / 5v, which gives about 350mA

I was thinking that it would probably be unlikely that each port of the hub had it's own 500mA fuse?
 

killster1

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so i didnt read everything but why not buy a powered hub if you are planning on running powered devices?
 

corkyg

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so i didnt read everything but why not buy a powered hub if you are planning on running powered devices?
That is a good point. I happen to use a 13 port powered hub and for the past 3 years have had no USB issues.
 

killster1

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which hub is that? im always on the lookout for recommended parts 13 ports sounds so good.
 

Paperdoc

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so i didnt read everything but why not buy a powered hub if you are planning on running powered devices?

I think there's some confusion here in labels. "(USB) Hub" is generic and would include all USB Hubs. A narrower term is "Bus-Powered Hub", which specifically means that the Hub has NO power source of its own and uses only power from the host port. "Powered Hub" usually means the Hub DOES have its own power supply and draws almost no power from the host port. Often the unmodified "Hub" is used to NOT disclose that the unit is the Bus-Powered version. OP Used the label "Self-Powered Hub", which MIGHT be interpreted to mean it does not use any extra module to get power, and that would suggest the power is all from the host port. BUT OP's first link to the Atollo unit on Amazon is a Powered Hub that DOES include its own power supply module.

OP, your power requirements thinking is good. The real limit, as you suggest, is the high initial spin-up current, and most other operations require less. As long as that high current does not exceed 0.9 A, a single connection to a standard USB3 port is sufficient and you would not need that adapter's second USB connection. Then we're back to total simultaneous load on the Hub. I find it interesting that you plan to use no more than two such laptop HDD's for a worst-case scenario on total load, but then you're extra interested in a Hub with 13 ports?
 

corkyg

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My mistake - it is a 10 port, USB 2.0 powered hub, and I am using 8 of the ports since about 2013. The only "brand" on it is "Plugable."

As I recall, I got it from Cyberguys.com. They now have 7 port USB 3 and a 12 port USB 2.
 
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quartzz1

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Aug 11, 2018
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hi Paperdoc thanks

yes at the moment just the 2x hdd's, I haven't really got any plan to upgrade the hub if this works

my laptop has USBv2 ports. initially I had a different hub, the cable of the
hubs supplied adapter wasn't long enough to reach from the mains plug to the desk, so I used a generic multi-voltage adapter to power it (with 1.5/3/4/6/9v setting, slightly casually I set it to 6v).

when the 2.5" drive span up, about 10 seconds later the laptop died. required disconnecting the laptops ac adapter and removing the battery to get it to power on again. thought I had killed the laptop for a second. I checked the rating of the generic adapter I used, which was 300mA. So the USB2 port of the laptop was providing 500mA, getting 300mA from the adapter, so the spin up hdd was asking for more than the maximum of 800mA? which...could.....explain why the laptop switched off.

So I'm just a bit wary of connecting the hdd using a single port of the hub, in case each port of the hub can only supply 500mA, and/or disagrees with the laptops onboard usb2 port that the hub's plugged into
 

Paperdoc

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I think you misunderstand your previous bad experience. First of all, any USB Hub that DOES have its own power supply attached does not draw any current from the host computer's port. Then the Hub will provide power to each of its ports normally up to the limit of the Hub spec - i.e., 0.5A from a USB2 port, or 0.9A from a USB3 port. So VERY likely what actually happened is that your HDD received 300 mA (0.3 A), the max the power module could provide, and it could only generate really bad weak signals and error codes, causing the Laptop to freeze on bad inputs.

IF you have a USB3 Hub designed to supply 0.9 A max to each port, AND IF you do use the power supply module for it so that CAN actually be supplied at the ports, you should not have problems with external hard drives as long as that unit IS designed to work within the USB3 limits. Complete units sold as "USB3 Laptop Hard Drives" are designed to meet those limits. If you assemble your own unit by installing a 2½" "laptop" HDD in an enclosure designed for use in a USB3 system with a suitable power supply, it can still work as long as you verify that the particular HDD you use does work properly at no more than 0.9 A max current draw.

By the way, IF you are doing this with a Laptop computer that has only USB2 ports, this will still work. The power part is satisfied if the drive unit is able to work with that USB3 power limit and the Hub power supply can provide that. However, no matter which type of cable you use to connect the Hub to the laptop's USB2 port, that port can only do the data exchange at the lower USB2 speeds. So the system will work, but data transfer will be at the older and slower USB2 rates
 
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quartzz1

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ah, ok...so it might have been a data thing, rather than a power thing. for some reason I can't give you a thumbs for your post?
 

Paperdoc

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Right. Using the right Hub and power module it should work. I see that, after you have signed into your account, posts by others (not yourself, of course) have a thumbs-up icon at lower right in the post frame that you can click on. Thanks for your comments, and glad to help.