900$ 64 rig questions

[nny]

building my brother a lower-cost version of a 64 3000 rig i put together 2 months ago. here's what i've got planned so far:

ANTEC "SONATA" w/ 380W Power Supply - 99$
CHAINTECH "VNF3-250" nForce3 250 mobo - 92$
POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9600PRO - 125$
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit - 223$
Corsair XMS 512MB DDR PC3200 - 123$
WD 120GB 7200RPM, WD1200JB - 89$
Lite-On 16X DVD-ROM Drive, Model XJ-HD166S - 28$
NEC 8X Black Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive, Model ND-2510A BLK - 87$
SONY Beige 1.44MB 3.5Inch Floppy Disk Drive, Model MPF920 - 11$
Ritek DVD-R 4.7G 4X 50PACK, Model DRD-47-4X-RDSM - 43$
total: 920$

a couple of questions:
1. he's not a big gamer, mostly rts and even some diablo2. is the 9600pro a safe choice for everything up to now, not including far cry?

2.will this corsair memory be sufficient for the rig? he wont be OCing.

3.does this sonata case provide adequate cooling with only the one fan?

4.finally, should he go with the newer 2510 or just get the 2500 and wait for a faster DL burner next year?

thanks for your help guys(and girls)

 

[Tostada]

A black case and a beige floppy?

The Corsair is fine, but OCZ Platinum is faster for $115.

I wouldn't get a WD drive unless it was a Raptor 74 GB. Hitachi/Samsung/Seagate all make better/quieter/faster drives that also have 3-year warranties.

Even if it's just 2.4X, dual-layer is better than no dual-layer. It's probably worth the extra $14.

If he's not a big gamer, what exactly does he use the machine for? Is there anything that justifies getting an Athlon 64 3000+?

If I were building an Athlon 64, I'd be using the K8N Neo Platinum and I'd be putting 1 GB RAM in it. If you're trying to make it cheaper, I don't see why you'd get an Athlon 64 3000+ in the first place. Does he just want to be able to tell people he has an Athlon 64? The system just doesn't make sense. Sure, it's got a great CPU, but you could spend less on a machine with 1 GB and a Raptor 74G, and it would feel much faster if he's just playing RTS games and Diablo.

 

[imported_SpitFire]

1. A 9600 Pro can handle most games but a better buy would be a 5900 xt for $170
2. The Corsair XMS isn't really needed since this isn't a gaming computer. You chould downgrade the ram to some Cosair Value series or Mushkin Green line or whatever it is. Uping the memory to 768 or 1024 will give an everyday boost over 512.
3. I'm not sure but the cheapest 120mm fan on newegg is like $8 after shipping so you could buy that.
4. Don't know much about DVD burners, why get 4x dvd-r's for a 8x burner get a lower quanity but 8x speed disks.

Also downgrading to a 2800+ athlon 64 would give you $30 to put toward the ram or video card

My recommendation would be 2800 a64, 512 Mushkin + 256 Mushkin 3200 green line, and a 5900 xt. Should cost around the same.

 

[Bar81]

An Athlon XP based system with a Radeon 9700Pro or 9800 Pro is what you should be building for your bro. Make sure to get a full Gig of RAM. Of course, that may change if there is a particular reason he needs an Athlon 64. What is he going to be doing with this PC?

 

[Corporate Thug]

get rid of the DVD rom since you alredy have a burner that will play DVDs, get a 25 pack of DVDr's and use the money you save to get a 9800 pro

 

[Tostada]

And what monitor are you getting? Please tell me you're not building an Athlon 64 3000+ and then recycling an old 17" CRT, otherwise he'd probably be much happier spending the $900 on a good monitor and an Athlon XP with 1GB of RAM.

As far as the graphics, a Radeon 9600 is about as fast as a GeForce4 Ti. I have a GF4 Ti 4200 and it runs Far Cry in 1024x768x32 just fine. With everything set to low, I can run 1152x864x32 and still get 85-95 FPS inside and 65 FPS outside. The lowest it ever dips is about 45 FPS in the middle of the jungle with the whole screen filled up with trees. If you want to turn the detail up to max, you'll need need something with 256-bit DDR (like a GeForce FX5900XT or a Radeon 9800XT or better).

 

[dmw16]

Looks like a nice setup, but I think it is a bit overkill. A few suggestions amd comments:

1. You could save $90 by going to newegg and getting their A64 2800+ and mobo combo for $223.

2. That video card is fine. If this is a general use rig then don't get an nVidia card, they sound like leaf blowers.

3. Corsair XMS is very overkill if you aren't overclocking. I game all the time on my box and I use Corsair Value RAM and have no complaints.

4. The hard drive sounds good, I have had my WD 120GB 8MB drive for some time and I have been very happy with it.

5. Dump the DVD-ROM drive, you don't need it.

6. At least get a black faced floppy. I would dump the floppy all together. I know people will probably get pissed, but bootable CDs can do anything a floppy can do, and floppy drives just look so ugly and floppy disks are generally unreliable.

You may also want to tell us all what he will be doing with the computer so that we can comment more on the parts and how they will work for his purposes.
-doug

 

[nny]

thanks for all the comments. the reason i'm using a 64 is longevity. i want this rig to last him 4 years. the comp will be used for light gaming, movie-backups and everyday college activities. i'm including a dvd-rom drive because in my past experience its bad to use a burning drive as a rom drive all the time; wears parts down faster and the rom drive is only 28$. he's getting a samsung 955df monitor.

the 64 2800 combo deal at newegg is a good idea. I might even OC his system to a 3000. would that be hard with the parts i have currently?

also, would a Seagate 120GB be better than a WD?

 

[Bar81]

Shouldn't be a problem to oc. Seagate may be better quality.

 

[getbush]

Don't foget 80-90 bucks for XP

 

[nitromullet]

That video card is fine. If this is a general use rig then don't get an nVidia card, they sound like leaf blowers.

hmmm... so they came out with the FX 5800 Ultra last year, and now all nVidia cards sound like leaf blowers...

At least get a black faced floppy. I would dump the floppy all together. I know people will probably get pissed, but bootable CDs can do anything a floppy can do, and floppy drives just look so ugly and floppy disks are generally unreliable.

Agreed, unless you need to install SATA drivers or go to college (yes, lots of professors still want homework turned in on a floppy - don't ask me why). Also, you could 'upgrade' the floppy into something more useful such as
this.

 

[nny]

he's going to be using 2kpro. i'm going to go with the 2800, and i changed the floppy color (you guys sound like fashion designers sometimes ) and now the rig looks like this:

ANTEC "SONATA" w/ 380W Power Supply - 99$
CHAINTECH "VNF3-250" nForce3 250 mobo - 92$
POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9600PRO - 125$
AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit - 185$
Corsair XMS 512MB DDR PC3200 - 123$
WD Special Edition 120GB 7200RPM, WD1200JB - 89$
Lite-On 16X DVD-ROM Drive, Model XJ-HD166S - 28$
NEC 8X Black Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive, Model ND-2510A BLK - 87$
SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5Inch Floppy Disk Drive, Model MPF920 - 11$
Ritek DVD-R 4.7G 4X 50PACK, Model DRD-47-4X-RDSM - 43$

total: 882$

keeping in mind the goal here is a powerful system that will last 4+ years, how does this look?

 

[Bar81]

The vid card is still underpowered and you need another stick of RAM. I would also replace that Chaintech, which apparently has QC problems, with the ASRock K8S8X.

 

[sisooktom]

Originally posted by: Bar81
The vid card is still underpowered and you need another stick of RAM. I would also replace that Chaintech, which apparently has QC problems, with the ASRock K8S8X.

For what he's talking about, 512MB and a 9600pro are fine.

 

[mAsTAd]

9600XT would be better for his needs than a 9600pro.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: sisooktom

Originally posted by: Bar81
The vid card is still underpowered and you need another stick of RAM. I would also replace that Chaintech, which apparently has QC problems, with the ASRock K8S8X.

For what he's talking about, 512MB and a 9600pro are fine.

For 4+ years its not.

 

[sisooktom]

Originally posted by: Bar81

Originally posted by: sisooktom

Originally posted by: Bar81
The vid card is still underpowered and you need another stick of RAM. I would also replace that Chaintech, which apparently has QC problems, with the ASRock K8S8X.

For what he's talking about, 512MB and a 9600pro are fine.

For 4+ years its not.

Well, he can upgrade the RAM down the road without throwing anything out. As for the graphics, my 5 year old GeForce2 GTS still runs RTS and Diablo II fine. Even if the 9600Pro starts to really suck, I think he'd come out cheaper just tossing it in a couple of years and buying another midrange card rather than ponying up for a 9800Pro now.

 

[Bar81]

Well, he could upgrade anything and everything in the future so its kind of a silly point. The original poster is looking for a system that will last 4+ years, not 4+ years with upgrades. ANY computer will last 4+ years with upgrades. In that case he might as well save money and buy an AXP and upgrade later if he needs to.

 

[sisooktom]

Originally posted by: Bar81
Well, he could upgrade anything and everything in the future so its kind of a silly point. The original poster is looking for a system that will last 4+ years, not 4+ years with upgrades. ANY computer will last 4+ years with upgrades. In that case he might as well save money and buy an AXP and upgrade later if he needs to.

Point taken, but I think we can all agree that a simple RAM upgrade is not even in the same ballpark as say a Motherboard/CPU upgrade. I think by trying to buy enough PC now to get through 4 or 5 years with NO upgrades, that he's setting himself up to spend more than he has to.

 

[koojoe]

You can get a free legit copy of winxp 64bit beta from MS.

No need to go out and spend 90 bucks for winxp. The beta seems pretty stable.

The only issues are drivers. ATi and Nvidia have betas available that work decently. Addin-cards will be a problem with drivers tho. As for chipset drivers VIA has released some that work for windows xp 64 bit. I'm not sure about the nforce chipset drivers for a winxp 64bit OS.

 

[nny]

sisooktom hit it right on the nail. by lasting 4+ years i meant the cpu/mobo, the basis of the rig. of course he will upgrade to a gig, maybe in a year. i did the same thing with my rig. no need to have a gig now when only a few apps can use it. as for the video card he can get another mid-range one in 2 years, or i might even toss him my 9800pro when i move on.

as for the xp beta, he doesnt want to be fumbling around with drivers and such, so 2kpro (which i already have) will suffice until the official 64xp comes out.

 

[Lyfer]

Looks good, if you plan on doing alot of gaming would opt for more ram, 1gb is really nice.

 

[Tostada]

If you're going for longevity, 4 years from now it would be better to have a faster/quieter/bigger hard drive and 1 GB of RAM than an A64 2800+. Only get a WD if you're getting a raptor, otherwise you should be getting a Samsung/Hitachi/Seagate, because they're all faster, they're all quieter, and they all get less complaints.

If you're planning on upgrading the RAM in the future, that blows your whole longevity idea because you could just as easily upgrade anything. You could build an XP now and then 2 years down the road get a Socket 939 PCI-Express board for cheap.

Also, you never mentioned what monitor he's using. Ask anybody around, and they'll tell you they'd be much happer with an Athlon XP and a high-end monitor on their desk than an A64 with some old 17".

You have said nothing to justify getting an A64 other than longevity, and Socket 754 will not have any more longevity than Socket A. Actually, you could easily argue that Socket A has more longevity because the A64 market will be almost completely moved over to Socket 939 next year.

I'm not trying to argue and tell you what you want, but the fact is that you're sitting there trying to tell your brother what he wants, and from the facts you've presented, you're wrong. Your brother does not want an A64.

Your brother has 3 options:
1) A64 with an OK video card and mediocre monitor
2) Athlon XP with a high-end video card and mediocre monitor
3) Athlon XP with an OK video card and a high-end monitor

Again, talking about longevity, a monitor is by far a better investment than an Athlon 64. A good monitor will still be a good monitor in 5 years.

 

[nny]

Originally posted by: Tostada
If you're going for longevity, 4 years from now it would be better to have a faster/quieter/bigger hard drive and 1 GB of RAM than an A64 2800+. Only get a WD if you're getting a raptor, otherwise you should be getting a Samsung/Hitachi/Seagate, because they're all faster, they're all quieter, and they all get less complaints.

i've got the same HD right now and i cant hear it above the fans or the power supply. and the dvd-burner is cheap storage.

If you're planning on upgrading the RAM in the future, that blows your whole longevity idea because you could just as easily upgrade anything.

adding a stick of RAM is definitely not the same thing as pulling apart your whole system and replacing the CPU and mobo.

Also, you never mentioned what monitor he's using.

yes i did. he's getting a samsung 955df.

You have said nothing to justify getting an A64 other than longevity, and Socket 754 will not have any more longevity than Socket A. Actually, you could easily argue that Socket A has more longevity because the A64 market will be almost completely moved over to Socket 939 next year.

a64 already has a huge performance increase over xp, so why would i get an xp when even the anandtech mid-range system has switched over to 64? if in 3-4 years he decides he needs a little more CPU power, he can buy the last 754 CPU for cheap. i personally see no reason to justify buying xp anymore, other than a budget system.

 

[Tostada]

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, it's just that you're listing a system that will only be able to play Far Cry in 1024x768 with a little extra detail. It's more than enough for what your brother wants, but he will be wanting to upgrade the RAM and video card to play new games in a year or two.

If that's the way you want to go, you could build an overclocked XP 3400+ and have $300 left to get a good monitor and a bigger hard drive.


245.00 + 37.00 NEC/Mitsubishi 19" SuperBright Diamondtron
77.00 Mobile XP 2200+ Barton 35W
10.99 + 4.00 FalconRock heatsink
82.00 ABIT NF7
94.00 Sapphire Radeon 9600 128MB
94.00 Samsung 160GB
77.00 Musnkin Basic 512MB PC3200 CL 2.5
87.00 NEC 2510A DVD-RW
99.00 + 15.00 Antec Sonata 380W Quiet TruePower

$903.99

See? That system has an amazing monitor, and it's also a silent system, so you have an excuse to be using an Antec Sonata. It'll also easily overclock to 3200+ speed without having to overclock the memory.

If you don't want a silent system, I'd save $25 and get the regular version of the Antec case (or the Performance Series) and then get the R9600 Pro.