9/11 responders bill defeated by GOP filibuster

[fskimospy]

Well our local neocons have shown up in this thread against giving these men and women benefits. This seems to be the republican position on the issue.

It really isn't though. The Republicans' position on the issue is that nothing else can be undertaken until tax cuts for the rich are extended.

Think about that, their actual position is to deny firefighters and EMTs money to treat the cancer caused by their work pulling people out of the rubble of the world trade center until they are sure rich people won't see more in taxes. Their position is already so horrifyingly evil that it's really not necessary to dress it up.

 

[thraashman]

Well lets see the people that were 1st responders did so because IT WAS THEIR JOB. They got a paycheck to do it. It is up to the company or authority they worked for to foot the bill. Not the American tax payer. Those that volunteered did so of their own free will.
When will people like you grow up and realize that people make choices and they have to be willing to live with the consiquences.
does it suck that they are sick and broke, sure, but if you haven't noticed, we as a nation are BROKE!!! We can't keep spending money left and right for everything that makes us feel good or patriotic because all it will do is put us in the poor house sooner.

Your utter lack of compassion sickens me greatly.

 

[Throckmorton]

Well lets see the people that were 1st responders did so because IT WAS THEIR JOB. They got a paycheck to do it. It is up to the company or authority they worked for to foot the bill. Not the American tax payer. Those that volunteered did so of their own free will.
When will people like you grow up and realize that people make choices and they have to be willing to live with the consiquences.
does it suck that they are sick and broke, sure, but if you haven't noticed, we as a nation are BROKE!!! We can't keep spending money left and right for everything that makes us feel good or patriotic because all it will do is put us in the poor house sooner.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

Listen, we HAVE to deficit spend right now. We are in a recession. That is how you make the economy better and not worse. So why the hell would we not drop a few breadcrumbs for the 9/11 first responders who aren't being served by the inherently flawed private health insurance system?

 

[RavenSEAL]

How pathetic...GOP deserved to be necked twice.

 

[fskimospy]

Well lets see the people that were 1st responders did so because IT WAS THEIR JOB. They got a paycheck to do it. It is up to the company or authority they worked for to foot the bill. Not the American tax payer. Those that volunteered did so of their own free will.
When will people like you grow up and realize that people make choices and they have to be willing to live with the consiquences.
does it suck that they are sick and broke, sure, but if you haven't noticed, we as a nation are BROKE!!! We can't keep spending money left and right for everything that makes us feel good or patriotic because all it will do is put us in the poor house sooner.

I'm glad, so now next time we have firefighters show up to a burning building we can have them choose not to try and save the people or put out the fire, because they might get long term health problems that won't be covered.

This is a brilliant idea. Please share more of them with us.

 

[fskimospy]

This thread is a good test for just how committed people are to their political sports team. I imagine the average click on it would be something like this: "There's no way anyone's dumb enough to back these guys up on thi...... oh shit."

 

[manimal]

This thread is a good test for just how committed people are to their political sports team. I imagine the average click on it would be something like this: "There's no way anyone's dumb enough to back these guys up on thi...... oh shit."

political theater is the most viewed reality show on television. Just as scripted...

 

[Cogman]

political theater is the most viewed reality show on television. Just as scripted...

 

[911paramedic]

:thumbsdown:

FYI: The 911 in my name is for the phone number, I don't claim to be a 9/11 responder.

 

[JSt0rm]

:thumbsdown:

FYI: The 911 in my name is for the phone number, I don't claim to be a 9/11 responder.

And how do you feel going forward in your work with this knowledge?

 

[her209]

Well lets see the people that were 1st responders did so because IT WAS THEIR JOB. They got a paycheck to do it. It is up to the company or authority they worked for to foot the bill. Not the American tax payer. Those that volunteered did so of their own free will.
When will people like you grow up and realize that people make choices and they have to be willing to live with the consiquences.
does it suck that they are sick and broke, sure, but if you haven't noticed, we as a nation are BROKE!!! We can't keep spending money left and right for everything that makes us feel good or patriotic because all it will do is put us in the poor house sooner.

Perhaps we should tell our wounded and returning veterans to suck it up because its their job to get maimed in wars. I mean, after all, its of their own free will that they joined the armed forces.

 

[manimal]

Nice!



This political season the show has been UPN network level of quality....

 

[Brigandier]

Nice!



This political season the show has been UPN network level of quality....

Seconded, that comic hits way too hard on the head of the nail.

 

[pcgeek11]

Perhaps we should tell our wounded and returning veterans to suck it up because its their job to get maimed in wars. I mean, after all, its of their own free will that they joined the armed forces.

No. You have it wrong.

The 9/11 First responders should have their medical coverage as provided by their employer. This would be the City, County, State Government who is their employer.

The Military should have the coverage they get from their employer also. This would be provided by the federal government who is their employer.

That is how it should work.

 

[guyver01]

The 9/11 First responders should have their medical coverage as provided by their employer. This would be the City, County, State Government who is their employer.

The Military should have the coverage they get from their employer also. This would be provided by the federal government who is their employer.

That is how it should work.

But... what happens when they LEAVE their job for whatever reason.

A 9/11 responder who can't be a paramedic anymore because he can't breathe due to the toxins he inhaled?

The Army Soldier who can't be a soldier because he lost both his legs and his left arm due to a landmine.

What then?

 

[pcgeek11]

But... what happens when they LEAVE their job for whatever reason.

A 9/11 responder who can't be a paramedic anymore because he can't breathe due to the toxins he inhaled?

The Army Soldier who can't be a soldier because he lost both his legs and his left arm due to a landmine.

What then?

" A 9/11 responder who can't be a paramedic anymore because he can't breathe due to the toxins he inhaled? "

Then his employer ( City, County, State ... ) should cover his "Work Related" injury for life.

Just as the servicemans "work related" injuries are covered for life by his employer ( Federal Government ) through the Veterans Administration.

It is pretty simple. I am retired from the service 20+ and two wars ( Vietnam and the first gulf war ) and a lot of people have misconceptions such as Retired servicemen don't pay federal taxes, our health care is provided 100% for life etc. These are both untrue. We pay taxes on our retirement and our health plan Tricare Standard doesn't have require a monthly payment but it has a deductable and cost share and after you reach the age of 62 you get turned over to Medicare. Tricare for life requires a monthly payment. Service connected disabilities are covered by the VA for life however and only covers the specific disability.

 

[guyver01]

" A 9/11 responder who can't be a paramedic anymore because he can't breathe due to the toxins he inhaled? "

Then his employer ( City, County, State ... ) should cover his "Work Related" injury for life.

SHOULD.... but they dont.

If a 9/11 First Responder loses their job... they lose their healthcare coverage.

This is why the "lifetime coverage" bill is so important.

 

[pcgeek11]

SHOULD.... but they dont.

If a 9/11 First Responder loses their job... they lose their healthcare coverage.

This is why the "lifetime coverage" bill is so important.

I never said it is not important. It is.

That being said, they were Not Federal Employees and the burden should fall on their employer ( City, County, State etc ... ). Not the entire country. The same if you are working for IBM or Microsoft a work related injury should be covered by the employer. And it should only cover the specific work related illness.

 

[guyver01]

The burden should fall on their employer ( City, County, State etc ... ).

Except... for many of them... its YEARS later that they're discovering the issues... and they don't work for New York City anymore... or Connecticut... or New Jersey... or wherever they worked on 9/11/2001.

The medical company who covered them 10 years ago isn't going to cover a person who doesn't work for the employer 10 years ago.

The same if you are working for IBM or Microsoft a work related injury should be covered by the employer. And it should only cover the specific work related illness.

And... if i work for IBM now... and 9 years from now i discover i have cancer from working with microprocessors, but i stopped working for IBM 8 years ago, IBM isn't gonna pay for my medical coverage. THIS is where the issue is.

 

[911paramedic]

I never said it is not important. It is.

That being said, they were Not Federal Employees and the burden should fall on their employer ( City, County, State etc ... ). Not the entire country. The same if you are working for IBM or Microsoft a work related injury should be covered by the employer. And it should only cover the specific work related illness.

It is far from working for IBM or Microsoft, so far I can't even imagine what you are trying to say.

(Why did I venture into P&N??)

 

[RightIsWrong]

How you could possibly reach that conclusion from what I wrote is also baffling.

How you could not know that autism affects how people form their opinions is also extremely confusing. Autism and particularly Aspergers is denoted by a lack of empathy for others along with a misunderstanding of social norms, which frequently leads to holding positions such as those that Apple has shown in this thread. Those differences in ASD people DIRECTLY influence the opinions they hold.

I haven't made it past this quote to see any other responses that you have made to either amend, change or adhere to this opinion, but I wanted to say that you should read up a little more on the topic.

As someone with Asperger's and the father of a child with Asperger's you are woefully misinformed and guilty of doing what a lot of others have mistakenly done also.

Someone with AS does not lack empathy for others. Quite the opposite actually. A sociopath or psychopath is devoid of empathy for others while someone with AS feels empathy, but they do not let their empathy cloud their judgment on most decisions that they are faced with. Now, obviously that isn't always the case and each person with AS is different and is capable of forming their own opinions and we will not all agree any more than you NT (neurotypical) types.

You are stereotyping and generalizing and have reached an incorrect conclusion as a result. Personally, I have great empathy for those that are put into situations like this and feel that $7.4B is a pittance in the grand scheme of things and that, if it is truly fiscal discipline that the right or left wanted, they could just as easily find the money in the hundreds of billions in corporate welfare and taxbreaks that they dole out or the other special interests benefits that are hidden in just about every other bill by hypocrites on the left and on the right.

 

[fskimospy]

I haven't made it past this quote to see any other responses that you have made to either amend, change or adhere to this opinion, but I wanted to say that you should read up a little more on the topic.

As someone with Asperger's and the father of a child with Asperger's you are woefully misinformed and guilty of doing what a lot of others have mistakenly done also.

Someone with AS does not lack empathy for others. Quite the opposite actually. A sociopath or psychopath is devoid of empathy for others while someone with AS feels empathy, but they do not let their empathy cloud their judgment on most decisions that they are faced with. Now, obviously that isn't always the case and each person with AS is different and is capable of forming their own opinions and we will not all agree any more than you NT (neurotypical) types.

You are stereotyping and generalizing and have reached an incorrect conclusion as a result. Personally, I have great empathy for those that are put into situations like this and feel that $7.4B is a pittance in the grand scheme of things and that, if it is truly fiscal discipline that the right or left wanted, they could just as easily find the money in the hundreds of billions in corporate welfare and taxbreaks that they dole out or the other special interests benefits that are hidden in just about every other bill by hypocrites on the left and on the right.

Lack of empathy does not equal 'devoid of empathy'. Furthermore, while AS people absolutely do not lack empathy like psychopaths do (or anything even close to it), as you mentioned their interactions with people quite often do (EDIT: I mean that AS people's interactions can be characterized as low on empathy). That doesn't mean that they are evil, just that they see the world through a different lens, which was precisely my point of course. While each person with AS may be different, it is a common enough characteristic that I feel totally comfortable associating the two.

I will not change or amend that position in any way, shape, or form, because what I wrote is backed up by the scientific literature on the subject along with personal experience.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Lack of empathy does not equal 'devoid of empathy'. Furthermore, while AS people absolutely do not lack empathy like psychopaths do (or anything even close to it), as you mentioned their interactions with people quite often do (EDIT: I mean that AS people's interactions can be characterized as low on empathy). That doesn't mean that they are evil, just that they see the world through a different lens, which was precisely my point of course. While each person with AS may be different, it is a common enough characteristic that I feel totally comfortable associating the two.

I will not change or amend that position in any way, shape, or form, because what I wrote is backed up by the scientific literature on the subject along with personal experience.

Let the blood letting begin! After all, it was backed by scientific literature on the subject along with personal experience at that point in time. Now, you'd be a fool for suggesting such a thing for the purposes that it was scientifically used.

The point of that is simply that knowledge of the human body has changed dramatically over the last couple of thousand years and will continue to evolve. What you are emphatically stating as fact today, may not and most likely will not be thought of as such tomorrow. Your rigidity in your beliefs is as funny as a child's instance in Santa b/c that is what they have been told and that is all that they understand.

You cannot and should not transpose your personal experiences across such a massive (and growing) swath of people because, even though there are similarities, we are all different just as NT people are.

To quote the gorgeous ladies in Expose "Free your mind and the rest will follow".

P.S. I think that my "personal experience" of having the labeled "condition" and raising a son that has been diagnosed with it also trumps your "I know someone who..." personal experience so you might want to give me a little more credit on this one.

 

[Attic]

I explicitly stated I wasn't trying to insult you, and I meant it. Your viewpoint here is simply baffling, and I'm trying to understand how you came by it.

As always a liberal viewpoint >>> reality

This lines up well with a lot of liberal viewpoints. As long as they say something or think something, the reality of the situation can be disregarded in favor living in a liberal land (Read: personal justification at all costs and a complete disregard for personal responsibility).

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

As asked before, can you give a plausible time frame when this bill should have been passed where it would not be called a political stunt? Everyone else has failed so far.

Sure. A few months before the rush for midterm elections, when it would have been more about the issues at hand than making the newly elected officials look bad. Yes, I know it was put forward during the summer; it was entirely reasonable then. But now, they knew the Republicans wouldn't go for it and they pushed it anyway.