Not really. It's one of the ironies of using our military to fight terrorists. We fight them, and surely kill a good number, but then we give credence to their claims by inadvertantly killing/wounding innocent Muslims, or even by just giving the appearance that we are targeting Islam in general. Keep in mind the Muslims tend to identify with the plight of other Muslims regardless of borders.
Not really. It's one of the ironies of using our military to fight terrorists. We fight them, and surely kill a good number, but then we give credence to their claims by inadvertantly killing/wounding innocent Muslims, or even by just giving the appearance that we are targeting Islam in general. Keep in mind the Muslims tend to identify with the plight of other Muslims regardless of borders.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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If you say so. Your comment really is nothing more than side-stepping my point though because it says nothing as to why AQ attacks and terrorizes countries that the US has nothing to do with.
Lol @ "Chomsky-ist". That's a new one. Do you realize that Chomsky has more intellect and understanding in one of his hair follicles than you'll have for the rest of your natural life?
I didn't know that being upset and disgusted about being used like cheap sluts to make special interest profit and gain more control could be equated to self-loathing, but thanks for that snippet of wisdom oh great despot-dong-sucker.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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I understand that Chomsky has his political opinions that have little to do with his expertise as a linguist. I also understand that he's a dissident and an anarchist, which apparently appeals to certain factions of P&N forum members because he tells them precisely what they want to hear so they can appeal to his authority, exactly as you have.
Of course, being linguistically talented and persuasive does get someone somewhere in life. Which is why I'd love to debate many people in this forum irl, and without access to the internet. I guarantee I'd eat guys like you for lunch because regardless of how I compare to Chomsky, I'd smoke you like a cheap cigar.
You haven't noticed that AQ recruits and expands wherever there are large number of Muslims? And where the central government is weak and/or sympathetic? That seems rather obvious.
And I can't help but notice that you didn't bother responding to my other point: which is that AQ uses our wars and military presence in places like Iraq and Afghanistan for recruitment purposes, because they demonstrate our disregard for Muslims and it doesn't matter that it's happening across the globe. You really think Muslims in the Philippines are going to turn a blind eye just because the atrocities we commit don't happen to be occurring in the Philippines? WTF kind of logic is that? These people have satellite tv and the internet too, they can clearly see what's going on around the world.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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I didn't bother responding because it's ultimately FUD. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq in the first place precisely because of AQ. AQ's own expansionist policies and attacks are what involved us. It's their own actions that others, like the US, have used for geting involved against them. Or are you saying that AQ is permitted to react and nobody is permitted to counter their actions?
If you think AQ is nothing more than a reaction to US policy you should think again. AQ is about gaining power however and whereever they can. Withdrawing and pretending they are ultimately nothing more than stupid camel herders is NOT going to solve the problem and is NOT going to make AQ say "OK, the US has left so we'll be good boys now." That kind of thinking is pitifully myopic in nature.
Of course I believe we should be attacking AQ wherever and whenever we can. Still, that does nothing to address our PR problem in the Muslim world. And that's precisely why AQ can use our actions against them as a rallying cry for radical extremists everywhere. It's the unintended consequence of fighting terrorism via our military.
That's not what I think nor what I was suggesting. I think it pays to understand the consequences of our actions and how our enemy uses it against us.
Iraq has nothing to do wit AQ. Saddam had exluded Al Queda from any presence in Iraq far better than the later governments - Al Queda got a big presence there from our war.
Indeed the war in Iraq greatly harmed the efforts against AQ, taking resources away from the effort in Afghanistan.
You have reading comprehension problems. His saying AQ uses US policies offensive to Muslims to aid recruiting is not saying 'AQ is nothing more than a reaction to US policy'.
AQ is primarily a group who wants to spread a conservative Muslim ideology in the Middle East - but it was formed in pretty direct response to the US policies that had the cooperation of the Saudi regime AQ wants to get rid of for its corrupt collaberation with the US. The US power backing the Saudi regime is their main target.
Just as the US has factions who compete for power, AQ is the sort of 'rebellious militant group' who wants to change the power structure there, but lacks much power to do so.
That's really what the motive was for 9/11 - not to hurt the US, but to increase the prominence of AQ and to try to provoke a response by the US that would infuriate the Middle Eaast and create a lot more support for AQ in the region - their hope was for the invasion of a middle eastern country. Good thing we didn't give them what they wanted.
Notice how even the Bush administration backed off the presence of US military bases on Saudi soil that was the top grievance Al Queda had.
It appears likely one of the reasons for the Iraq war was to provide an alternative to Saudi Arabia for those bases.
The fact is, there are questions whether the US has a 'moral policy' in the Middle East, in its trading security for the Saudi regime for guarantees of oil access, a deal struck after the oil embargo in the 70's. You wouldn't like a decades-long repressive US regime whose source of power was a foreign nation taking our resources - why should Saudis? we never seem to learn lessons on this - what would be so bad about a better democratic regime in Saudi Arabia, even if the price of oil was a bit higher? Al Queda would be toast.
The very fact that the government of the holiest Muslim nation and the leading oil nation has such a close dependancy on the most powerful nation in the world is a problem.
Jimmy Carter saw this issue, soon after the deal was struck, and wanted to get the US off of foreign oil to solve it, but the oil industry won out starting with the next President.
After that, it was policies like alliance with Saddam against Iran, alliance with Israel to invade Lebanon, wars with Saddam (and a proxy war with Iran), and so on.
None of the concerns with the US policy gets almost any attention by most in the US, though, only the updates on 'how the wars are going', how many troops deployed, killed...
So any OTHER issues with the policy aren't discussed, nothing about 'should we change the situation with Saudi Arabia', for example - only war is discussed as a policy option.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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Works both ways. If you haven't noticed, because of AQ, Muslims have a PR problem in the West. But I look at the West and what we've done for Muslims in the past, including trying to improve their image here in the US after 9/11 when a few jerks acted as if all Muslims were terrorists, and I see us on much, much higher ground. Are Muslims in the ME going to see that sort of thing when they're fed all kinds of propaganda? No. If they want to suck up that propaganda and hate, it's not my concern, nor should it be yours.
Our enemy has tried to use our actions against us. I think we've made it perfectly clear that we are not out to destroy Muslims or the Muslim world though. Ours is not a new crusade. So their propaganda rings hollow and backfires against them eventually. Are they still going to attract new recruits? Sure. But that doesn't mean much because there are people in this country that join the extreme right wing and extreme left wing every day. There isn't much one can do about the dipshits, the impressionable, and the gullible in this world. There are always dumbasses looking to join an extreme cause.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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Ugh.
I didn't claim Iraq had anything to do with AQ. What I am saying is, that without 9/11, we never would have been in Iraq in the first place. The sequence of events never would have happened. AQ changed public perception about the ME and the need to take action. So don't thank Bush, thank Al Qaeda and OBL for being so stupid as to attack civilian targets on US soil.
The war in Afghanistan isn't even against AQ. AQ is gone and was gone nearly immediately. The war in Afghanistan is against the Taliban, who resent their loss of power and want it back. OTOH, we've done some pretty major damage against AQ, taking out a good percentage of their leadership.
Considering the above, you might want to consider your own reading comprehension deficiencies before you attempt to point your fingers at others.
AQ is a group that formed as a result of an indignant asshole named Osama Bin Laden, who had his ego bruised when the Saudi Defense Minister chose to have the US protect them from any potential aggression from Saddam rather than OBL's unemployed mujhadeen. In fact, OBL's request was refused twice. Suddenly, a groups named al Qaeda came into being and their primary target was the US. It was no coincidence.
The left don't want to hear that though because it doesn't jibe with their "It's our fault." self-flagellations.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
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