8800ULTRA

[Nezzy]

About 40 minutes ago I had my mind made up as to the basics of the system I plan on getting, the price it would cost and basically how it would run.... then I found this site.... now I don't know what I want except for my video card (sorry if this is in the wrong section... or in a completely wrong forum all together), the main items I had planned out were:

8800ULTRA (looking to spend around $1000 on my vid card.. price range for 8800U in Aus is $899-1299)

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 LGA 775 3.0 GHz (but now I'm trying to decide between that and Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 LGA 775 2.4GHz, both are the same price roughly but am getting mixed reviews about what would be best for my needs... which is gaming of course )

Gigabyte GA-P35 (sticking with that... I think)

and finally it was a toss up between a 21" CRT and a 21" LCD... I am leaning more towards CRT at the moment as they are cheaper and can run higher display modes (want to get the most out of my 8800... 2048x1536)

I don't have a great deal of $ to spend on this system (around $3000AU hopefully around the 2750 mark) and I need to build it from ground up.. ram, CPU, MB, Monitor etc etc... basically I just need a little advice from people as to what would be a good set up, I know this is more a question for my local PC store but I would prefer it come from a few different sources that don't have my bank account in mind when helping me decide.

Any help is greatly appreciated and once again I am sorry if this is the wrong place to ask

 

[swtethan]

8800Ultra is a kind of a waste, its just an overclocked 8800GTX. Buy the GTX and overclock it (very simple) and you have a Ultra upgrade for free! A lot of companies such as eVGA cover their cards from overclocking damage so if you ever decide to overclock your video card, you're not voiding your lifetime warranty. The average overclock on a GTX is 620MHz core and 2000MHz memory. Dont forget to register your card before 30 days or you cannot recieve lifetime warranty.

 

[swtethan]

I have the GA-P35-DS3P board and its basically the Gigabyte DQ6 without the fancy cooler, a very good board. I have a Quad 6600 (G0 stepping) overclocked to 3.4GHz on stock voltages, all I needed was a simple change of FSB in my bios and its 100% stable even with the power saving features on. If youre willing to learn, overclocking can give you the performance you want of a $1000+ processor for 1/3 of the price. Gaming is going multi core, for example: Bioshock can split its AI and physics into two seperate cores making a Quad core a much better performer (even at 2.4ghz) than a 3.0GHz dual core cpu. A cpu can raise its clock speed, but can never gain more cores, just something to think about.

CRT vs LCD..... LCD! I dont think you would want to run a GTX on such a high resolution, the GTX will struggle to put out high FPS on 2500x1500. Its like putting a 300hp engine in a 10,000lb car, it needs more HP! You could check out 22" widescreens (1680x1050) if theyre in range.

 

[Laminator]

Good thing you found this site first. I agree with swtethan; get an 8800GTX instead of an Ultra and save yourself some money. Also, I'd recommend the Q6600 over the E6850. The benefits of a higher clock speed are negligible but the benefits of more cores, when they occur, are tremendous. Current games that do not take advantage of multiple cores will not run noticeably slower on a 2.4GHz Core 2 (or even a 1.8GHz Core 2) versus a 3.0GHz Core 2. Games that do take advantage of multiple cores, and you can expect a lot more of this in the upcoming months/years, will benefit much more from multiple cores than clock speed. And you can never add more cores, as swtethan has mentioned.

 

[CP5670]

It depends on what the GTX prices are like in Australia. The Ultras have come down in price a lot, to the point that some of them cost about the same as the GTXs. The MSI Ultra model was a better deal than most of the GTXs over here a month ago, although I think the GTX prices have fallen a bit since then.

As for the monitors, you don't have much of a choice since the good CRTs are all long gone, and the few that are still available new all suck. If you get a used one (the only way to get them now), try to check it in person and verify its condition before you buy it.

 

[Stefx]

Originally posted by: Nezzy
and finally it was a toss up between a 21" CRT and a 21" LCD... I am leaning more towards CRT at the moment as they are cheaper and can run higher display modes (want to get the most out of my 8800... 2048x1536)

I have a high quality 22" CRT, a 20 4:3 LCD and a 24" widescreen LCD, and the CRT is in the basement sorage.
Honestly, you're not going to like 2048x1536 on that CRT. 1600x1200 will look ok but that's it. I highly suggest you go for a good widescreen LCD.

Buy the GTX and with the money saved, put it on a good LCD.

 

[CP5670]

If he actually manages to get a good one, it will easily beat any LCD for games, but the chances of that happening are too low to bother with it.

 

[drakore]

If you can get the ultra for < 30$ more than the GTX then get it... you can overclock them heavily...

if not then get the GTX... Ultras are just higher binned GTX's

all and all buying an 8800 GTX or ultra right now is kind of a waste... wait for the new nvidia cards

 

[Nezzy]

Wow, thanks for all the responses, I never expected this much help... seems like its unanimous that I will be saving some money on my 8800 if I get a GTX and OC it instead of getting ULTRA (around $300-500 depending on brand) which I can put to a LCD instead of CRT (I am looking to get this new PC ASAP and searching for a good CRT sounds like it might be an issue + desk space does sound appealing). The monitor I'm using currently is a 21" CRT but its a old NEC Multisync XP21 which maxes out at 1600x1200 and weighs about as much as myself.. actually snapped 2 desks in half.. lol.

I am fairly confident I can OC without too many complications, but I'm guessing that some kind of decent coolant would be an idea maybe water-coolant if money permits, if not will put it towards a half decent case.

CPU sounds like I should go with quad core (I was concerned that most of the games tested from comparisons of the 2 CPU's were older games like HL2 EP1 etc.)

I must admit I am a bit disappointed about getting a GTX instead of an ULTRA but for my budget it does sound like the right thing to do, ULTRA just sounds so much more appealing

Once again thank you everyone for your great advice, I'm sure I would have received quite a different response from most PC vendors just out to make a quick buck.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Think about it this way: right now you can buy an 8800GTX, or an 8800 Ultra. Either card can handle anything you throw at it gaming wise. Eventually both will slowly start to fall down the performance charts and become obsolete.

Right now, the Ultra does give better performance, but not by much... similar to having a Core 2 Duo @ 3.0GHz vs a Core 2 Duo @ 3.1GHz. However, in this analogy, the Core 2 Duo @ 3.1GHz would cost twice as much.

I HIGHLY suggest the GTX over the Ultra, unless you can wait for the next release from nVidia / AMD (ATI). You shouldn't even need to overclock it for a year or so, until you start to see the loss of framerate (really, anything over 30-45ish is a "waste"). In my personal opinion, the Ultra is the type of card you should buy only if you ABSOLUTELY have to have the BEST OF THE BEST... and want to brag about it. If you win a contest to get any computer you can dream built, go for it. If you're spending your own money, use the extra $500 to buy a puppy*.

*A puppy may not result in the increase of frames per second, brake horsepower, or e-peen size. Please do not attempt to insert puppies into PCI-E slots.

 

[boglwe]

When do the new nvidia cards come out?

 

[undeclared]

Originally posted by: swtethan
I have the GA-P35-DS3P board and its basically the Gigabyte DQ6 without the fancy cooler, a very good board. I have a Quad 6600 (G0 stepping) overclocked to 3.4GHz on stock voltages, all I needed was a simple change of FSB in my bios and its 100% stable even with the power saving features on. If youre willing to learn, overclocking can give you the performance you want of a $1000+ processor for 1/3 of the price. Gaming is going multi core, for example: Bioshock can split its AI and physics into two seperate cores making a Quad core a much better performer (even at 2.4ghz) than a 3.0GHz dual core cpu. A cpu can raise its clock speed, but can never gain more cores, just something to think about.

CRT vs LCD..... LCD! I dont think you would want to run a GTX on such a high resolution, the GTX will struggle to put out high FPS on 2500x1500. Its like putting a 300hp engine in a 10,000lb car, it needs more HP! You could check out 22" widescreens (1680x1050) if theyre in range.

You are wrong, heh.

Basic breakdown (nvidia cards only):

(For reliably max everything, with 16x AA setting)

Max res reliable at | Card
1280x1024 | 8800 gts 320
1680x1050 | 8800 gts 640
2048x1536 | 8800 gtx 768
2560x1600 | 8800 ultra 768 (or GTX overclocked), SLi may be required

NOTE: 2560x1600 May require SLI to be reliable at all even without anti-aliasing.
Also, I refer to DX9 games.
I use only a lot of forum posts as the source of this. It may be faulty but it is my current understanding.

Essentially, I would either get a 21" CRT and an 8800 GTX, or a high quality/great picture 22" 1680x1050 LCD and an 8800 GTS 640.. Maybe a GTX just to be comfortable.

A great source for the 21" CRT is www.canadamonitors.com, they have good deals and cheap shipping.

If you want to spend a sick amount on a monitor, get the FW900, or something like the 20WMGX2.. but I do hear the FW900 is better for gaming (although no 2560, its like 2340 or something.. but that doesn't make it suck or anything.)

Good luck

 

[Ruptga]

You don't need watercooling, check out AT's reviews. Tower coolers perform the best (as far as air cooling) , and there's a lot of good ones to choose from.

Watercooling does perform better than air, but it's also more complicated, more expensive, more easy to break, and it can go terribly wrong in case of a bad failure (think wet PC guts vs fried CPU).

 

[Nezzy]

Well I finally think I have made a decision based on what I can afford and what I want/need and all just under budget (well I'm sure there will be a few cables etc that will add up but only slightly) I just wanted to post the overall so you can see what you helped create, maybe even a picture when I finally get it and put it together just as a ty

VIDEO PCI-e (nV) 8800GTX 768MB EVGA - $770.00
CPU Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz/1066FSB) - $350.00
MONITOR Asus VW222U 22" 2ms CONT 2000:1 Wide LCD 3 Yr Wty - $385.00
RAM 2x 1GB PC8500 1066MHz GeiL - $230.00
POWER SUPPLY Coolermaster eXtreme Power 650W - $110.00
CASE ANTEC P182 Black - $210.00
FANS 120mmx2 CoolerMaster Blue LED Silent 120 SI3 - $20.00
CPU FAN Thermalright CPU Cooler XP-90C - $100.00
MOTHERBOARD Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P - $200.00
HDD 3.5" HDD SATA-300 500GB 16MB Seagate |||| or WD 500g - $180.00
MOUSE Razer Copperhead - $80.00
KEYBOARD Generic - $10.00
DVD ASUS Light Scribe DRW-1814BLT Retail/Black - $50.00
SOUND CREATIVE Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum - $275.00
TOTAL - $2970AU (around 2,450 USD)

The sound card was just a little add on as I have a decent set of speakers that need something to keep them pumping (Logitech 5500D)... I didn't think I would be able to get it all in under my budget but with help from everyone here it seems like the dream is becoming more and more a reality, thank you all once again for your words of wisdom.

 

[Stefx]

Just a comment on the LCD

The one you picked has a resolution of 1680x1050

If you step up a little bit in cost, you could get 1920x1080, which makes a nice difference and would allow you to enjoy what your GTX is capable of.

You can save 40-50 by buying the Tuniq Tower CPU cooler which even though cheaper is considered among the best

If you're tight on money and can't afford a 1920x1080 LCD, cut the X-Fi at 275$. The 1920x1080 will add more enjoyment to your games than the X-Fi would. On-board sound cards are very decent nowadays.

Hard drive: I would go for 500G even if it's slower.

 

[MarcVenice]

I would buy ddr2 800mhz ram. It will allow you to overclock that q6600 to 3.6ghz without having to mess with the ram, I doubt you can get it might higher anyways, so why waste more money on ram then necesary?

That PSU, I own it myself, it pumps out 30a or so on the 12v rails. NOT a whole lot for a oced q6600, a gtx and what not hooked up to it. Rather buy a lower wattage, higher amperage unit, like the corsair 520hx, which is modular to boot.

Nice pick on the case, it should be arriving here ANY minute!

Why the ds3p? Why not the ds3r ? Or is the ds3p cheaper, not sure lol, those are aussie dollars, confusing me

Go with WD 500g, or samsung spinpoint 500gb, both are better then the Seagate. And 500gb are in fact faster then smaller HD's, because of higher data density

The creative card give trouble in Vista. Should look at something else or hold off till problems are fixed, for 275$ I would definately drop it for something cheaper. Btw, the videocard, can you use the STEPUP program in aussieland too? If so, go with the gtx, and upgrade to 9800 in 3 months. If not, then personaly said, there's no way in hell I would spend BIG bucks on a high-end card when it is about to be replaced by better cards.

Those are my 2 cents, hope they help.

 

[Lord Banshee]

save yourself 175 dollars and get the X-Fi XtremeGamer instead, use extra money to get bigger monitor with 1920x1200 res. Also get a better name brand PSU (Corsiar, SeaSonic). And 100 dollars is way too much to spend on a heatsink, go with what others are telling you the Tuniq Tower performs great.

 

[Nezzy]

RAM wise I thought that if I can use 1066mhz I would, didn't really think there would be any complications if I wanted to OC... it still fits into my budget, but if it wont make a big difference between the 2 types I will downgrade to the 800 and save around $20-30.

PSU + CASE I didn't want to go spending too much on the case and PSU (all up $420AU if I get the corsair unit), but if it seems like it would be a crap PSU then I might consider getting the corsair. Case wise I liked the look + the amount of fans I can chuck in to keep the whole system a little cooler sounded like a plus.

MB.. well I really have no clue as to the difference between the different models so I just went with what seemed like an average priced one (my original idea was to get the DS4 @ $255, so a drop in price to the DSR @ $175 seemed a little much so I thought there might be something I was missing out on, went in between with the DS3P)

I might drop the CPU cooler for something a little cheaper but the places I was looking at didn't have too many options on CPU cooling and the XP-90 looked pretty decent... will ask if they can get in the Tuniq Tower and at what price if it is a considerable drop I will go with that, if not I guess it doesn't hurt to have a little style onboard.

As to getting the GTX, I could wait.. if I knew the release date for the new models, problem is from previous experience you wait for one thing to come out and then you wind up waiting again thinking the next, next gen will come out soon too and end up where I am now with a 6600 standard on a 3.2g P4.
Lol just when you think you have things figured out.

 

[Laminator]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSkyYou shouldn't even need to overclock it for a year or so, until you start to see the loss of framerate (really, anything over 30-45ish is a "waste").

Sorry to hijack this thread temporarily but 30-45 FPS is still pretty low for some games, like racing games or FPS's. It depends on the person's perception but once you really get into a high-paced action game, you'd want 60-80 FPS or higher. There really is a difference.

And XP-90 for $100 AUS? Hmmm...that's about $80-$90 USD. The XP-90 is a good cooler but it should only be worth about $25, considering its performance. You might be able to pay a trusted guy in the US to buy you a Tuniq Tower 120 from NewEgg for $50 shipped and then mail it to you.

 

[swtethan]

you really get jacked on prices over there

 

[swtethan]

I found an australian site for you

http://www.i-tech.com.au/produ..._120_eXtreme_Heat.aspx


Is that a good site for over there? Thats one of the best air coolers today.

 

[MarcVenice]

It will NOT make a big difference between ddr2 800 and ddr2 1066, the only big difference is a pile of money you throw away for nothing. As for the PSU, list some options around 150$, then we will pick a good one for you. With your RIG I'd go with something better then the coolermaster, got one myself, it's pretty okay, but your rig will be using more power then mine.

A average priced mobo is roughly 100$, US that is. The motherboards people on these forums buy, for overclocking and high stability are pretty expensive allready. A dsr3 or p5k vanilla are considered really good motherboards, for 130$.

As for the GTX, NVIDIA is on a yearly schedule, every year they release something new, they released g80 ALMOST a year ago, so something new is on the horizon. That's why waiting is an option, or use the EVGA stepup program if it is offered in Australia. One last thing, state the site you are getting your stuff from?

 

[swtethan]

I will send you my rig if you send me a panasonic laptop lol

 

[Nezzy]

Originally posted by: swtethan
you really get jacked on prices over there

Yeah, not a great deal on some things like CPU, Monitors etc. but high end GFX etc we really get screwed on and those prices are after searching for a while too... might consider getting my cousin in NJ to see if he can get some items from somewhere there and ship them over... well the small weightless ones that is.

Thats enough from me on this subject, I have hijacked this entire forum on what PC I am getting when I originally just planned on getting a little advice on MB and CPU to go with my 8800 (I think im in the right direction now)... thank you all for your wonderful assistance I will be sure to mention this site next time someone asks anything PC related.

 

[woolfe9999]

Originally posted by: Laminator
Good thing you found this site first. I agree with swtethan; get an 8800GTX instead of an Ultra and save yourself some money. Also, I'd recommend the Q6600 over the E6850. The benefits of a higher clock speed are negligible but the benefits of more cores, when they occur, are tremendous. Current games that do not take advantage of multiple cores will not run noticeably slower on a 2.4GHz Core 2 (or even a 1.8GHz Core 2) versus a 3.0GHz Core 2. Games that do take advantage of multiple cores, and you can expect a lot more of this in the upcoming months/years, will benefit much more from multiple cores than clock speed. And you can never add more cores, as swtethan has mentioned.

I think a quad versus duo is pretty debatable at this point. I guess since the OP is looking at a Duo of equivalent price to the quad, the quad might be better for future proofing. Personally, I'd recommend a less expensive duo over any of the above, and either keep the money or use it in some other part of the system. The facts are 1) very little supports quads right now (is it still only Supreme Commander?), and 2) any form of C2D is not really a bottleneck for current games.

So I'd save some cash on the CPU and go for a middle of the line C2D, then grab a quad core Penryn next year, when a lot more games will support it.

But YMMV.

Good advice on the card. A GTX is a much better buy than an Ultra.

- woolfe