Aaah ok. I'm reading here also that Z97 has SATA Express, but still it is quite a bit more expensive, but its good to know thats its worth it.
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
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SATA Express is getting pushed out because it needs to be, but it's not going to be too important, I don't think, at least not for consumers, and not for a few years. M.2 drives using PCIe, and NMVe boot support, however...
AnitaPeterson
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
- 5,962
- 455
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If you really want to shave some of the costs, you can get these instead:
RAM - 16 GB G-Skill DDR3-1600 - €147,90 https://www.alternate.nl/G-Skill/16-GB-DDR3-1600-Kit-geheugen/html/product/985423?event=search
PSU - Seasonic S12II-520 EVO (also modular, apparently very quiet) - €59,90 https://www.alternate.nl/Seasonic/S12II-520-EVO-520-Watt-voeding/html/product/143539?tk=7&lk=9304
And if you follow monkeydelmagico's advice and you go the i5 4690k route, you instantly save €100. The price/performance value is better with the i5, anyway.
RAM - 16 GB G-Skill DDR3-1600 - €147,90 https://www.alternate.nl/G-Skill/16-GB-DDR3-1600-Kit-geheugen/html/product/985423?event=search
PSU - Seasonic S12II-520 EVO (also modular, apparently very quiet) - €59,90 https://www.alternate.nl/Seasonic/S12II-520-EVO-520-Watt-voeding/html/product/143539?tk=7&lk=9304
And if you follow monkeydelmagico's advice and you go the i5 4690k route, you instantly save €100. The price/performance value is better with the i5, anyway.
Yuriman
Diamond Member
- Jun 25, 2004
- 5,530
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No, Z87 and Z97 should provide similar overclocks, but the 4790K is clocked from the factory very near to the max overclock most get out of Haswell chips anyway, so I don't feel the extra cost of a "Z" chipset is as easily justified as with the lower-clocked i5.
As others have said, if you're going to overclock, get Z97 instead of Z87 as the latter is an older, already replaced chipset.
Charlie98
Diamond Member
- Nov 6, 2011
- 6,292
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say your HX should be adequate... your HX520 is built by SeaSonic and is a good unit.
And, yes, I would go for one bigger GPU, rather than SLI. I posed that very same question on my first build... and the consensus was the pretty much the same, given my purposes, which largely mirror yours.
Theory is... If you run your computer, say, 5-6 years, you would need to upgrade the GPU at least once mid-cycle to keep up with the more modern games, the CPU/mobo/RAM still being adequate. For example, I recently replaced my older GTX560Ti with a more modern GTX760SC, while keeping my 'ancient' 2500K/Z68 mobo.
Just so you know, I'm still using my old HX620 (from 2008) with my current system with no issues: 4690K (@4.5GHz)/HD7950(@1100MHz).
The PSU has served 3 systems in its lifetime and is still going strong.
The PSU has served 3 systems in its lifetime and is still going strong.
What is your opinion on ASUS 24" Gaming Monitor VG248QE. I am not interested in any 3D technology in monitors. I just want the blur/ghosting free smoothness of good old CRT's. The price is quite high, and I'm just wondering what other alternatives with at least 1ms smooth gaming monitors.
Also I asked the store about ram advice, they recommended 16gb, but eitherway 8gb is fine also. I remember back in the day when I went with 2gb, then after 4gb became the norm when switching from xp to windows 7.
But damn, since when has RAM become so expensive. I remember it being cheap. I'm gonna go for 8GB regardless probably...
As for the Corsair HX520W I have, its kinda rolling the dice with it. I think most likely, it would be fine, but ye maybe I need to see a tool that measures the psu's tempratures etc to determine if its in a good state or not.
Also I asked the store about ram advice, they recommended 16gb, but eitherway 8gb is fine also. I remember back in the day when I went with 2gb, then after 4gb became the norm when switching from xp to windows 7.
But damn, since when has RAM become so expensive. I remember it being cheap. I'm gonna go for 8GB regardless probably...
As for the Corsair HX520W I have, its kinda rolling the dice with it. I think most likely, it would be fine, but ye maybe I need to see a tool that measures the psu's tempratures etc to determine if its in a good state or not.
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AnitaPeterson
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
- 5,962
- 455
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Tell you what... if you're going to keep building computers over time, maybe you should invest in a PSU tester. They aren't very expensive, and can definitely give you peace of mind. A good PSU would have rock-stable values (do an internet search on how to perform a complete test).
Looks like two other members say the Corsair HX520W should be OK. Based on my own experience over time with Corsair, I tend to agree - if it's a Seasonic build, it should be absolutely fine.
As far as the RAM goes, if cost is not a crucial aspect, I'd still go with 16 over 8... 'cause you never know when you'll need it, especially if you plan to keep the system for a few more years. The thing about dual-channel memory is that the sticks must match perfectly, meaning they should come from the same fabrication batch. If you limit yourself to 8 GB now, most likely you'll have to go 2x4GB. If you decide to get 16 GB later, you'll need to either replace it with 2x8GB - leaving you with spares you won't necessarily need anymore -, OR (if you have enough slots on the motherboard), add another 2x4GB... but in that case, you'll need to match specs, timing and so on with the memory you bought now. Which is hard to do, at a distance of a couple of years.
Can't tell you much about monitors, I'm afraid
Looks like two other members say the Corsair HX520W should be OK. Based on my own experience over time with Corsair, I tend to agree - if it's a Seasonic build, it should be absolutely fine.
As far as the RAM goes, if cost is not a crucial aspect, I'd still go with 16 over 8... 'cause you never know when you'll need it, especially if you plan to keep the system for a few more years. The thing about dual-channel memory is that the sticks must match perfectly, meaning they should come from the same fabrication batch. If you limit yourself to 8 GB now, most likely you'll have to go 2x4GB. If you decide to get 16 GB later, you'll need to either replace it with 2x8GB - leaving you with spares you won't necessarily need anymore -, OR (if you have enough slots on the motherboard), add another 2x4GB... but in that case, you'll need to match specs, timing and so on with the memory you bought now. Which is hard to do, at a distance of a couple of years.
Can't tell you much about monitors, I'm afraid
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Ketchup
Elite Member
- Sep 1, 2002
- 14,553
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8 GB would be fine unless you are getting into VMs or Video editing. When DDR4 comes down in price and DDR3 starts doing up, you may want to buy another 8 JIK.
I like the monitor you are looking at. A good size (I have a different model Asus, same size) and refresh, but not running an insane resolution.
On the power supply, I like AnitaPeterson's suggestion here. Get a power supply tester and keep what you have for now.
I like the monitor you are looking at. A good size (I have a different model Asus, same size) and refresh, but not running an insane resolution.
On the power supply, I like AnitaPeterson's suggestion here. Get a power supply tester and keep what you have for now.
monkeydelmagico
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2011
- 3,961
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That monitor really isn't priced that high IMHO. Aoc g2460pg and BenQ XL2411Z are around the same price. Maybe the Acer GN246HL might shave a little off the price.
I just recently upgraded from a E6600 to an i7-4790k build and seem to have similar preferences to you, in that I prefer to get a stronger CPU up front and then build around that over the years. In the meantime I've built systems for friends and family and I work in the industry so I feel I've got a decent grasp on things here. IMO I would go with the i7-4790k for your big CPU purchase if you are not the type to upgrade your CPU frequently. You don't need to overclock it out of the box, and it sets you up very nicely for the upcoming years without carrying a huge premium.
I highly recommend the 144hz monitor if you play fps games- I have the Asus VG248QE and it's one of my favorite purchases, and it's really not a giant premium compared to other monitors for what you get. 144hz refresh rate in faster paced FPS games is a joy to experience..it's so butter smooth, reminds me of the CRT experience.
8Gb of ram is more than enough.
Get a SSD for your new build, enough space for OS+ games (256GB or more), IMO it is a waste to make a new build and then run it on the huge bottleneck that is the traditional hard drive. If you can carry over your old HD from existing computer for media/storage that would be preferred.
Here is the base that I would build off of:
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/m8JnjX
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Hi thanks for the recommendation. I do plan to go for the Asus VG248QE, considering I have always missed my CRT's. But still, was only saying that I don't like 3D and wouldnt want part of the monitor's budget to be contributed to a feature I dislike. Perhaps its just a small extra, then Im ok with it.
The Asrock mobo you recommended does not have SLI support, only crossfire unless the Alternate page made a typo.
Btw, I changed the MSI Z97 Gaming 7 into Gaming 5. Seems only difference is less SATA ports, but I'm assuming apart from that, same overclocking capabilities. Its just way cheaper.
About the case I plan to have, Sharkoon T28, its very mixed reviews everywhere. Negative on other, more positive on other. I'm betting perfomance wise, its below average, but hot damn does it have some swag, looks sexy as hell.
I'm looking for alternatives, and Antec Eleven Hundred seems to be a likely candidate for better perfomance, but I'd have to add custom case fans to it. Thats gonna be quite expensive, but is it worth it?
The Asrock mobo you recommended does not have SLI support, only crossfire unless the Alternate page made a typo.
Btw, I changed the MSI Z97 Gaming 7 into Gaming 5. Seems only difference is less SATA ports, but I'm assuming apart from that, same overclocking capabilities. Its just way cheaper.
About the case I plan to have, Sharkoon T28, its very mixed reviews everywhere. Negative on other, more positive on other. I'm betting perfomance wise, its below average, but hot damn does it have some swag, looks sexy as hell.
I'm looking for alternatives, and Antec Eleven Hundred seems to be a likely candidate for better perfomance, but I'd have to add custom case fans to it. Thats gonna be quite expensive, but is it worth it?
I disagree with this. If you don't upgrade CPUs frequently, then that means you don't care about having absolute bleeding edge performance over the long haul (if you did, you would upgrade CPUs frequently).
The Intel CPU stack works like most product stacks in the technology world in that the higher up you go, the more you pay for the same marginal beneift. With the 4970K, you're paying a 50% premium over the 4690K for a 14% clock speed increase and hyperthreading. In the best case, you're getting a CPU that's 20% faster for 50% more money. In the average desktop use case where everything but the CPU is the bottleneck, you're getting a 1-2% increase in performance for 50% more money.
There's never going to be a workload where the 4790K is "fast enough", but the 4690K is "too slow". Going forward, these differences start to get compressed relative to the performance of a newer processor, making the performance you got from the extra money even more inconsequential.
Absolutely not. We're past the stage where a normal build needs to load up on fans to keep the components cool. Modern parts are efficient, and the once you've picked are especially so. You'd be lucky if you could get a GTX 970 + Haswell system to go above 200W fully loaded. That sort of heat output doesn't call for an especially tricked out cooling system. I'd look more towards quiet cases like the Fractal Design R4.
Ketchup
Elite Member
- Sep 1, 2002
- 14,553
- 248
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The main thing that is making the Sharkoon T28 look bad (thermally) is the lack of top fans. However, as mfenn pointed out, that is not extremely necessary with the efficiency of today's components.
The Amazon.co.uk and scan.co.uk sites have some very good customer reviews for this case, and I would personally take those as the most valuable.
The Amazon.co.uk and scan.co.uk sites have some very good customer reviews for this case, and I would personally take those as the most valuable.
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
- 33
- 86
It wouldn't be worth it if it were cheap, IMO. But, I never quite understood the cult following that case got, especially by users not doing case modding.
But, even if you get one of the high-TDP factory-overclocked GTX 970s, you might be looking at 250-300W (with one near reference TDP, like an Asus Strix, or MSI non-gaming, you'll never get close to 250W, outside of running Prime95 and Furmark at the same time, and then will still likely be under 250W). So, as long as the front fans aren't severely blocked off, or something bad like that, no worries, as far as cooling goes.
burninatortech4
Senior member
- Jan 29, 2014
- 674
- 344
- 136
On the AMD side of things... An 860k + r9 285 is a really sick combo and not that expensive. Have fun with your new build!
MSI=Good GPUs,bad for motherboards.
That PSU is OK..nothing special.I wouldn't downgrade it at all.
Keep in mind that Haswell will run RAM as fast as the RAM goes..
For instance, I run 2660Mhz daily on my Haswell setup.
That all looks pretty good..
but I bet there's some comparable/better G.Skill RAM at that price point.
and I would not run an MSI motherboard.
That one is definitely NOT overkill..underwhelm is more like it.
Asus PRO or better.
Biostar's flagship..
or Gigabyte ..the orange one...
all would be better than that MSI.
AsRock..eh..it's either the ATX Overclock Formula or nothing.
for me anyway..
Bubbleawsome
Diamond Member
- Apr 14, 2013
- 4,834
- 1,204
- 146
That MSI is actually a pretty good board. I would recommend some high end ASUS and Gigabyte boards over it, but MSI has really improved in the past gen or two. My low spec z87-G41 works perfectly, the only limitation is the vcore is limited to 1.3v (or 1.35v with voltage bumps from that thingy p95 uses. ) Temps are all good and it has plenty of connections.
) Temps are all good and it has plenty of connections.The Corsair Carbide 300R (windowed) case looks sexy as hell too.
When I called the store to ask advice on difference between the Corsair AF (airflow?) and SP (static pressure) fans. They said that ultimately it doesn't matter, and recommended to just go for the normal Corsair AF.
I know the side panel/window would require regular AF, but don't know about the rest.
When I called the store to ask advice on difference between the Corsair AF (airflow?) and SP (static pressure) fans. They said that ultimately it doesn't matter, and recommended to just go for the normal Corsair AF.
I know the side panel/window would require regular AF, but don't know about the rest.
That MSI is actually a pretty good board. I would recommend some high end ASUS and Gigabyte boards over it, but MSI has really improved in the past gen or two. My low spec z87-G41 works perfectly, the only limitation is the vcore is limited to 1.3v (or 1.35v with voltage bumps from that thingy p95 uses.
ok..$95
You could get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130695
limited vcore to 1.35v..crappy mosfets and inductors..lowest grade used out of any mobo.
or this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-380-_-Product 10-phase power with high quality mosfets and inductors..
+just to make sure it runs a newer chip: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIOS-Chip-B...US_Motherboard_Components&hash=item5d4cb5d672
That MSI would catch on fire is you tried to do this with it: http://valid.canardpc.com/2897134
Yuriman
Diamond Member
- Jun 25, 2004
- 5,530
- 141
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I agree with your conclusion, but not with your maths. If a 4790K is only 20% faster than a 4690K with a 14% clock speed advantage, that would make hyperthreading worth only 5%.
It's true that you're not going to see a 50% gain in FPS in today's games (or perhaps any in the foreseeable future) with the i7, but in anything that actually uses the extra threads, hyperthreading is worth well over 5%. See the Devil's Canyon review.
^ If we divide out a 14% clockspeed advantage, hyperthreading (and perhaps the extra cache) is worth around 43%.
Here we can compare apples to apples, with chips clocked the same. Hyperthreading is worth 33%.
Here, hyperthreading and larger cache are worth a whopping 72%.
Even if you're only getting an extra 30% multithreaded performance out of the extra threads, a 14% increase in clocks * 30% = ~50% extra performance for ~50% extra cost.
Whether or not it's relevant to the OP is for him to decide. Today, an i5 is plenty fast for most games, and he probably won't see scaling in most by buying an i7 (in part because generally, games won't use more than 4 threads), but by some metrics an i7 is actually a better value.
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Ketchup
Elite Member
- Sep 1, 2002
- 14,553
- 248
- 106
My opinion for the OP - if you are going to make this one last like the current one - go ahead and get an i7 and 16 GB of RAM.
If you plan to upgrade again in the next couple years, get an i5 (as Intel will likely be changing sockets by then, as they do) with 8 GB of RAM (as DDR4 will be out soon) and a splurge on a case (so it will last through both).
If you plan to upgrade again in the next couple years, get an i5 (as Intel will likely be changing sockets by then, as they do) with 8 GB of RAM (as DDR4 will be out soon) and a splurge on a case (so it will last through both).
Revolution 11
Senior member
- Jun 2, 2011
- 952
- 79
- 91
OP, sorry for the rude responses in this thread, I assure you that most of us are much nicer and open. To add to your confusion, I have a few suggestions.
Look at my signature and you can see that I have a i5-4670K which is from the z87 product family. I also have a Radeon 7870 which is roughly slower than a R9 280. Yet, most games I play are very fast, with frames per second (FPS) well above 60 (a desired level for many PC gamers). As it is, in the games that do need more performance, they are definitely GPU limited.
I would not recommend you go above a i7-4970K because most games will never use that CPU power.
As for the SSD, a second choice is the Crucial MX100 256GB which often sells for lower than the Samsung Evo. The Samsung Evo is about the same in performance and features as the MX100 so get the one that has the better price.
Finally, if you purchase your computer components around Black Friday/Cyber Monday, you may get better deals.
Look at my signature and you can see that I have a i5-4670K which is from the z87 product family. I also have a Radeon 7870 which is roughly slower than a R9 280. Yet, most games I play are very fast, with frames per second (FPS) well above 60 (a desired level for many PC gamers). As it is, in the games that do need more performance, they are definitely GPU limited.
I would not recommend you go above a i7-4970K because most games will never use that CPU power.
As for the SSD, a second choice is the Crucial MX100 256GB which often sells for lower than the Samsung Evo. The Samsung Evo is about the same in performance and features as the MX100 so get the one that has the better price.
Finally, if you purchase your computer components around Black Friday/Cyber Monday, you may get better deals.
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