8-7-07 U.S. Court tells sick people to die already and get it overwith

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

Another step towards mass emigration and/or extinction of the lower classes all by design.

8-7-2007 Court rules out terminally ill for tests

WASHINGTON - Terminally ill patients do not have a constitutional right to be treated with experimental drugs, even if they likely will be dead before the medicine is approved, a federal appeals court said Tuesday.

The ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit overturned last year's decision by a smaller panel of the same court, which held that terminally ill patients may not be denied access to potentially lifesaving drugs.

Abigail Alliance founder Frank Burroughs pledged an appeal to the Supreme Court. Burroughs' daughter, Abigail, was denied access to experimental cancer drugs and died in 2001. The drug she was seeking was approved years later.

"What the opinion by Judge Griffith is saying is, 'We don't want to risk one life or a few lives, even at the expense of the lives of hundreds or thousands of people,'" Burroughs said. "The logic of that escapes me."

In a sharply worded dissent, Judge Judith W. Rogers called the ruling "startling." She said courts have established the right "to marry, to fornicate, to have children, to control the education and upbringing of children, to perform varied sexual acts in private, and to control one's own body even if it results in one's own death or the death of a fetus."

"But the right to try to save one's life is left out in the cold despite its textual anchor in the right to life," Rogers wrote.

Rogers was joined by Chief Judge Douglas H. Ginsburg. The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.





 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,445
6,684
126
What was the basis on which the girl was denied access? How could such a thing happen?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern
That's the smell of ownage.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Shhhh, Dave didn't want anyone to notice that. He'd rather everyone read his analysis of the story and believe him, first.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,888
2,788
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

Another step towards mass emigration and/or extinction of the lower classes all by design.

8-7-2007 Court rules out terminally ill for tests

WASHINGTON - Terminally ill patients do not have a constitutional right to be treated with experimental drugs, even if they likely will be dead before the medicine is approved, a federal appeals court said Tuesday.

The ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit overturned last year's decision by a smaller panel of the same court, which held that terminally ill patients may not be denied access to potentially lifesaving drugs.

Abigail Alliance founder Frank Burroughs pledged an appeal to the Supreme Court. Burroughs' daughter, Abigail, was denied access to experimental cancer drugs and died in 2001. The drug she was seeking was approved years later.

"What the opinion by Judge Griffith is saying is, 'We don't want to risk one life or a few lives, even at the expense of the lives of hundreds or thousands of people,'" Burroughs said. "The logic of that escapes me."

In a sharply worded dissent, Judge Judith W. Rogers called the ruling "startling." She said courts have established the right "to marry, to fornicate, to have children, to control the education and upbringing of children, to perform varied sexual acts in private, and to control one's own body even if it results in one's own death or the death of a fetus."

"But the right to try to save one's life is left out in the cold despite its textual anchor in the right to life," Rogers wrote.

Rogers was joined by Chief Judge Douglas H. Ginsburg. The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Do you even read what you post?

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Wait what? You mean Dave's headline and talking points are self injected and not really part of the article?? *gasp*

Oh and BTW Dave...maybe you have a reading disability...perhaps you missed the point that this is about EXPERIMENTAL drugs? Did you miss that? Youre so full of shit.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,445
6,684
126
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Shhhh, Dave didn't want anyone to notice that. He'd rather everyone read his analysis of the story and believe him, first.

Nice to see that getting to Dave takes priority on thoughts of the fate of that girl.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,888
2,788
136
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Shhhh, Dave didn't want anyone to notice that. He'd rather everyone read his analysis of the story and believe him, first.

Nice to see that getting to Dave takes priority on thoughts of the fate of that girl.


Maybe you should be asking Dave why trying to turn this into a partisan issue takes priority over the thoughts of the fate of that girl.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern
That's the smell of ownage.


tehe
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Shhhh, Dave didn't want anyone to notice that. He'd rather everyone read his analysis of the story and believe him, first.

Nice to see that getting to Dave takes priority on thoughts of the fate of that girl.

Thats not the point Moon and you know it. This would be a great topic with a headline reading: Should terminally ill patients be granted contitutional rights in regard to access to experimental drugs?

But no. It s a typical Dave BS post.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Nice to see that getting to Dave takes priority on thoughts of the fate of that girl.

No, silly Moonie. The priority is to get the point of the story correct.

Why should we be duped into discussing the non-story of Repubs "planned extinction of the lower classes all by design".

As to discussing the priority of that girls fate, I don't see where's enough decent info in that story to do so. That should prolly center around efficacy of approved medical treatment and the number of unapproved treatments vs. their eventual proven efficacy. How many unapproved treatments are shams? etc. Just not much info in the posted story.

I intended, but forgot to add this point in my op - If you're terminal, why do you give a fvck what the laws are anyway? Prolly some decent reasons, but jeebus, how people are coke and weed etc and don't give a crap. And what do they do? Put you on probation.

Personally, I'd really be interested in the logic/reasoning of the majority as well as the dissenting opinon. But none of that is in the posted story either.

Fern
 

BornStarlet

Member
May 1, 2007
79
0
0
Is this story saying they should not be included in drug trials, experimental drugs don't need to be paid for by the government/insurance, or that patients cannot purchase drugs that are not FDA approved?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Shhhh, Dave didn't want anyone to notice that. He'd rather everyone read his analysis of the story and believe him, first.

Nice to see that getting to Dave takes priority on thoughts of the fate of that girl.

Thats not the point Moon and you know it. This would be a great topic with a headline reading: Should terminally ill patients be granted contitutional rights in regard to access to experimental drugs?

But no. It s a typical Dave BS post.

I really don't understand why he is constantly allowed to get away with such obvious trolling.

Oh well....
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern

Shhhh, Dave didn't want anyone to notice that. He'd rather everyone read his analysis of the story and believe him, first.

Nice to see that getting to Dave takes priority on thoughts of the fate of that girl.

Thats not the point Moon and you know it. This would be a great topic with a headline reading: Should terminally ill patients be granted contitutional rights in regard to access to experimental drugs?

But no. It s a typical Dave BS post.

I really don't understand why he is constantly allowed to get away with such obvious trolling.

Oh well....

Because he is "elite"
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: nick1985
Because he is "elite"

No, it is because he is so entertaining. :laugh:

I mean, come on, really...this place would be pretty boring without Dave's diatribes and broken records!

...And 2008 just might portend McOwen for President!
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I am not surprised by this ruling.

It says it was split on party lines.

-snip-

The case cut across party lines, with conservative and liberal judges taking both sides of the dispute.

Dave :frown:

It doesn't say it was split on party lines (I've never heard that phrase, sounds close to "split along party lines", meaning all conservatives voted one way, all liberals the other).

If you'll read the last sentance you posted (I left it in above), it says "cut across party lines", meaning a mixture of liberals and conservatives voted for it, and another mixture voted against. I.e., party lines had nothing to do with their vote.

Fern
That's the smell of ownage.


tehe

Oh please. Bragging about owning Dave is like bragging that you can take candy from a baby. Nothing new here.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
much more of what Dave "spins" is false..

The child is not from the "lower classes"..her father was an engineer, and she was receiving care at Johns Hopkins University (Of which I am a proud alum).

The issue of access to experimental drugs is a two edged sword...yet another example of how Dave ignores the wisdom of experts, and interjects his own reality as "the truth"

read this editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine to understand the downside of what is being discussed. It's a very complex issue..

NEJM Editorial
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
The Question, the question. Should terminally ill patients get access to beneficial experimental drugs?
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Dying people not having access to medicine? Gee, sounds a whole lot like England and Germany's health care system to me. How do you think they contain costs?
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
The Question, the question. Should terminally ill patients get access to what may be beneficial experimental drugs?

Fixed that up for you.

And it's a double edged sword type of issue. It might cure/help one thing but lead to another. But IMO, if it might help, then let em have at it. At their own risk of course, otherwise headline reads "Family of Terminally Ill Patient Sues <insert drug company here> For Wrongful Death".
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
2
0
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
The Question, the question. Should terminally ill patients get access to what may be beneficial experimental drugs?

Fixed that up for you.

And it's a double edged sword type of issue. It might cure/help one thing but lead to another. But IMO, if it might help, then let em have at it. At their own risk of course, otherwise headline reads "Family of Terminally Ill Patient Sues <insert drug company here> For Wrongful Death".

FTW !

I'd bet a nickle that's 90% of the issue right there. One Word: Lawyers

They 'd sue if patient X could get it but not patient Y, they'd sue if the family decided it actually shortened the patients life ( ..." with reckless disregard for the fragile condition ...."), they'd sue because ... they can.

If you want to get angry, get angry at the legal teams that make attacking the medical profession their #1 cash cow.

And, many experimental compounds are in very limited supply in the early phases, the company has to gain the most knowledge from the available quantities at-hand.

It has also helped, in the past, to be a company shareholder for some humanitarian exceptions.

 

Comanche

Member
May 8, 2005
148
0
0
I agree with this decision whole heartedly. First Bad things happen, people die; second, there is no way to tell what the future will bring; third, if she had used it and became ill from a side effect, there would have been a lawsuit over the whole matter.

So basically, we have skipped the middle and gone right to the lawsuit. We have save a lot of money.