7D Officially Announced

[Eug]

I'm in Canada. I'm sticking with Canada for my 7D order since it's not going to be much more expensive.

BTW, some Toronto stores are expecting their shipments today or tomorrow. However, I'm ordering from elsewhere in Canada ($170 cheaper, cuz no provincial sales tax) so it may be a few days later (although I pre-ordered a bit late so I might not get in the first batch).

 

[Eug]

Pic of 7D rig

Another night in Beijing - A Canon EOS 7D short film

Canon 7D movie ? Another night in Beijing from Dan Chung on Vimeo.

So here is my first attempt at filming with a production Canon Eos7D just one hour after receiving it from my local camera store. Starting at 10pm I spent about 2 hours in total filming this in the Nanluoguxiang Hutong in Beijing, mostly at around 1600 to 6400 ISO. At first I had a few problems re-adjusting my head to the different button layout to the 5DmkII but by the end of the shoot I was getting used to it. The camera feels great in the hand and I get round to doing more testing and analysis later. For now I?m happy that it is producing the kind of results I want and at 25p, all ready for broadcast. For the news shooter this is the last major hurdle to proper production, there are other issues like sound and aliasing, but this was the big one and so we can rejoice. Several of my broadcast TV collegues are now interested in using these cameras for news coverage.

In my unscientific gut feeling test I think the images from the 7D in low light are slightly noiser than the 5DmkII but still amazing considering Beijing?s dark streets and dim lighting. Its a shame this isn?t a full-frame sensor, but its not a deal breaker for me.

Picture style was set at neutral and the whole thing was edited in Final Cut Pro with no colour correction, the reduced from 1080p to 720p in MPEG streamclip with just a slight contrast and saturation tweak. I?ll try and make the 1080p version available soon on Smugmug.

Lenses were the Canon 50mm f1.2L, 35mm f1.4L and the 70-200mm f4L IS. I shot mainly handheld attaching my Zacuto Z-finder straight to the camera, then added a prototype of the new Genus d-slr bars supporting their wide angle mattebox to prevent any excess lens flare. I also shot using a small Redrockmicro shoulder rig at times as well as on my fantastic Miller DS-20 tripod. Audio was from a Zoom H4n feeding the camera audio directly using a custom cable from Pinknoise systems (living with AGC to speed time in the edit).

When I shot the my original ?One night in Beijing? test reel on the Eos5DmkII ten months ago I new the whole video game had changed irreversibly. The 7D is the next logical evolution of the 5DmkII video capabilities, apart from the lack of a full frame sensor and the resulting low image noise, it does all things just that little bit better.

 

[Eug]

Got one

Now I need to go RTFM.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Eug
Got one

Now I need to go RTFM.

your lens cap is upside down =P Looks good though. If I did more video work, I'd want that.

 

[Eug]

A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: Eug
A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

I see that you have Long Exposure Noise Reduction off, High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Standard, Auto Lighting Optimizer at Standard.

One tip from a Canon user:

When in low ISO shooting environment, turn off High ISO Speed Noise Reduction and stay away from Standard Picture Style. This may not matter if you don't care about your images being soft but if you're one of those who wish to have full deatil, just turn it off.

This is because a. Standard Picture Style smears detail for better noise control regardless of your camera's noise reduction setting. b. High ISO Speed Noise Reduction also smears detail even when you're using very low ISO; even @ ISO 100, it smears. So, as in your case, combining those two gets you no advantage while the penalty is high.
(Remember when 50D and 5D mk2 came out and based on samples from review sites, people were criticizing how they lack detail though MP count is high? Those two being the default setting caused it.)

In my case, I just leave High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low and use Neutral or Neutral based custom made picture styles. Leaving High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low gives me details that are as close as leaving it Disabled while it gets rid of color noises, keeping most of details. It also saves me from having to turning it off and on based on the environment.

Also, ALO is always off on my camera. If you're a novice, ALO might help but I just don't like how it fucks up the exposure unpredictably.

BTW, what's the point of using AI servo and Automatic Selection AF are mode when shooting a fire hydrant?

 

[Deadtrees]

Repost

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: Eug
A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

I see that you have Long Exposure Noise Reduction off, High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Standard, Auto Lighting Optimizer at Standard.

One tip from a Canon user:

When in low ISO shooting environment, turn off High ISO Speed Noise Reduction and stay away from Standard Picture Style. This may not matter if you don't care about your images being soft but if you're one of those who wish to have full deatil, just turn it off.

This is because a. Standard Picture Style smears detail for better noise control regardless of your camera's noise reduction setting. b. High ISO Speed Noise Reduction also smears detail even when you're using very low ISO; even @ ISO 100, it smears. So, as in your case, combining those two gets you no advantage while the penalty is high.
(Remember when 50D and 5D mk2 came out and based on samples from review sites, people were criticizing how they lack detail though MP count is high? Those two being the default setting caused it.)

In my case, I just leave High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low and use Neutral or Neutral based custom made picture styles. Leaving High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low gives me details that are as close as leaving it Disabled while it gets rid of color noises, keeping most of details. It also saves me from having to turning it off and on based on the environment.

Also, ALO is always off on my camera. If you're a novice, ALO might help but I just don't like how it fucks up the exposure unpredictably.

BTW, what's the point of using AI servo and Automatic Selection AF are mode when shooting a fire hydrant?

While I agree about high speed ISO noise reduction should be set to Low and ALO should be off, I have seen no proof in my use of my 50D that picture styles has anything to do with noise reduction.

Of course ALO and ISO noise reduction has no effect if you just shoot RAW in the first place.

 

[Eug]

Actually, I normally shoot RAW for this type of stuff. The only reason I shot JPEG was for test purposes, and because OS X doesn't support the 7D's RAW files yet. (I didn't want to install Canon's DPP on my main machine, but it looks like I'll have to.) What I should have done is just shoot RAW + JPEG. Your comments are noted though.

Anyways, here is the pic after some heavy duty noise reduction. I'll have to learn Topaz better to get better results though.

As for AI Servo, sometimes it's pretty hard to catch a running fire hydrant you know. Seriously though, the AI Servo was set for birds and squirrels but I didn't get a chance to shoot any.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: Eug
A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

I see that you have Long Exposure Noise Reduction off, High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Standard, Auto Lighting Optimizer at Standard.

One tip from a Canon user:

When in low ISO shooting environment, turn off High ISO Speed Noise Reduction and stay away from Standard Picture Style. This may not matter if you don't care about your images being soft but if you're one of those who wish to have full deatil, just turn it off.

This is because a. Standard Picture Style smears detail for better noise control regardless of your camera's noise reduction setting. b. High ISO Speed Noise Reduction also smears detail even when you're using very low ISO; even @ ISO 100, it smears. So, as in your case, combining those two gets you no advantage while the penalty is high.
(Remember when 50D and 5D mk2 came out and based on samples from review sites, people were criticizing how they lack detail though MP count is high? Those two being the default setting caused it.)

In my case, I just leave High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low and use Neutral or Neutral based custom made picture styles. Leaving High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low gives me details that are as close as leaving it Disabled while it gets rid of color noises, keeping most of details. It also saves me from having to turning it off and on based on the environment.

Also, ALO is always off on my camera. If you're a novice, ALO might help but I just don't like how it fucks up the exposure unpredictably.

BTW, what's the point of using AI servo and Automatic Selection AF are mode when shooting a fire hydrant?

While I agree about high speed ISO noise reduction should be set to Low and ALO should be off, I have seen no proof in my use of my 50D that picture styles has anything to do with noise reduction.

Of course ALO and ISO noise reduction has no effect if you just shoot RAW in the first place.

Regardless of body settings, try taking shots with Standard and Neutral Picture Style. Difference is quite evident. It also makes difference in file size as more noise = more information. On my 5d mk2, picture A that is shot with Standard Picture Style was 8.12MB whereas the Neutral one was 11.6MB.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: Eug
A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

I see that you have Long Exposure Noise Reduction off, High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Standard, Auto Lighting Optimizer at Standard.

One tip from a Canon user:

When in low ISO shooting environment, turn off High ISO Speed Noise Reduction and stay away from Standard Picture Style. This may not matter if you don't care about your images being soft but if you're one of those who wish to have full deatil, just turn it off.

This is because a. Standard Picture Style smears detail for better noise control regardless of your camera's noise reduction setting. b. High ISO Speed Noise Reduction also smears detail even when you're using very low ISO; even @ ISO 100, it smears. So, as in your case, combining those two gets you no advantage while the penalty is high.
(Remember when 50D and 5D mk2 came out and based on samples from review sites, people were criticizing how they lack detail though MP count is high? Those two being the default setting caused it.)

In my case, I just leave High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low and use Neutral or Neutral based custom made picture styles. Leaving High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low gives me details that are as close as leaving it Disabled while it gets rid of color noises, keeping most of details. It also saves me from having to turning it off and on based on the environment.

Also, ALO is always off on my camera. If you're a novice, ALO might help but I just don't like how it fucks up the exposure unpredictably.

BTW, what's the point of using AI servo and Automatic Selection AF are mode when shooting a fire hydrant?

While I agree about high speed ISO noise reduction should be set to Low and ALO should be off, I have seen no proof in my use of my 50D that picture styles has anything to do with noise reduction.

Of course ALO and ISO noise reduction has no effect if you just shoot RAW in the first place.

Regardless of body settings, try taking shots with Standard and Neutral Picture Style. Difference is quite evident. It also makes difference in file size as more noise = more information. On my 5d mk2, picture A that is shot with Standard Picture Style was 8.12MB whereas the Neutral one was 11.6MB.

First of all, I ran your test on my 50D, the neutral shot always came out to be slightly smaller in file size. Whether it was JPG or Raw

Second of all, if we're talking JPG the noise should be more visible in standard mode as this mode applies sharpening. This will accentuate any noise that is already in the image.

Lastly, Increasing saturation with bolder colors like Normal mode does should also accentuate color noise, which I noticed to some extent. Neutral was obviously softer due to the lower sharpness setting.

I noticed no overall difference in the noise level that shouldn't be expected due to the increase in sharpness and saturation. This also doesn't apply to RAW images as no "picture" style is applied to a RAW image. It only affects the image preview when displayed on your camera.

here are my "results"

Neutral JPG
1. 5.48MB
2. 5.53MB
3. 5.50MB
4. 5.52MB
5. 5.53MB

standard JPG
1. 6.47MB
2. 6.45MB
3. 6.46MB
4. 6.48MB
5. 6.51MB

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: Eug
A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

I see that you have Long Exposure Noise Reduction off, High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Standard, Auto Lighting Optimizer at Standard.

One tip from a Canon user:

When in low ISO shooting environment, turn off High ISO Speed Noise Reduction and stay away from Standard Picture Style. This may not matter if you don't care about your images being soft but if you're one of those who wish to have full deatil, just turn it off.

This is because a. Standard Picture Style smears detail for better noise control regardless of your camera's noise reduction setting. b. High ISO Speed Noise Reduction also smears detail even when you're using very low ISO; even @ ISO 100, it smears. So, as in your case, combining those two gets you no advantage while the penalty is high.
(Remember when 50D and 5D mk2 came out and based on samples from review sites, people were criticizing how they lack detail though MP count is high? Those two being the default setting caused it.)

In my case, I just leave High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low and use Neutral or Neutral based custom made picture styles. Leaving High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low gives me details that are as close as leaving it Disabled while it gets rid of color noises, keeping most of details. It also saves me from having to turning it off and on based on the environment.

Also, ALO is always off on my camera. If you're a novice, ALO might help but I just don't like how it fucks up the exposure unpredictably.

BTW, what's the point of using AI servo and Automatic Selection AF are mode when shooting a fire hydrant?

While I agree about high speed ISO noise reduction should be set to Low and ALO should be off, I have seen no proof in my use of my 50D that picture styles has anything to do with noise reduction.

Of course ALO and ISO noise reduction has no effect if you just shoot RAW in the first place.

Regardless of body settings, try taking shots with Standard and Neutral Picture Style. Difference is quite evident. It also makes difference in file size as more noise = more information. On my 5d mk2, picture A that is shot with Standard Picture Style was 8.12MB whereas the Neutral one was 11.6MB.

First of all, I ran your test on my 50D, the neutral shot always came out to be slightly smaller in file size. Whether it was JPG or Raw

Second of all, if we're talking JPG the noise should be more visible in standard mode as this mode applies sharpening. This will accentuate any noise that is already in the image.

Lastly, Increasing saturation with bolder colors like Normal mode does should also accentuate color noise, which I noticed to some extent. Neutral was obviously softer due to the lower sharpness setting.

I noticed no overall difference in the noise level that shouldn't be expected due to the increase in sharpness and saturation. This also doesn't apply to RAW images as no "picture" style is applied to a RAW image. It only affects the image preview when displayed on your camera.

here are my "results"

Neutral JPG
1. 5.48MB
2. 5.53MB
3. 5.50MB
4. 5.52MB
5. 5.53MB

standard JPG
1. 6.47MB
2. 6.45MB
3. 6.46MB
4. 6.48MB
5. 6.51MB

O.K. Do this for me, please.

Set your ISO 1600. Take two shots: a. use Standard Picture Style b. Neutral Picture Style.
Exposure and everything should remain the same except above two.

Crop any sections of the images and post 'em on the web.

You, I, and everyone would be able to see different noise algorithms applied as you can see indivisual pixels being smeared on Standard Picture Style mode.

 

[Deadtrees]

STDvsNEU.jpg

Settings:
Left: Standard, Right: Neutral
Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation is set @ 3, 0, 0.

High ISO noise Reduction is @ Low

Pictures were taken using LiveView mode when the camera was set on the floor. Focus remained the same for both shots.

File size was 8.98MB for Standard mode one, 10.1MB for Neutral mode one.

Notes:
As you can see, Standard mode smears fine details for noise elimination making it look like focus is slightly off. On the other hand, Neutral mode preserves fine details but it comes with costs: blocky pixel noise.
What more can I say? As you can see, the difference is quite clear.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Eug
Anyways, here is the pic after some heavy duty noise reduction.

Here's what ISO 5600 looks like on a D700 after Noise Ninja: Text (warning: full-size JPG)

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

As you can see, Standard mode smears fine details for noise elimination making it look like focus is slightly off. On the other hand, Neutral mode preserves fine details but it comes with costs: blocky pixel noise.
What more can I say? As you can see, the difference is quite clear.

Do you not shoot RAW?

P.S. Do you ever use the portrait style for portraits?

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Eug
Anyways, here is the pic after some heavy duty noise reduction.

Here's what ISO 5600 looks like on a D700 after Noise Ninja: Text (warning: full-size JPG)

Very nice quality, but what does the original look like? I would imagine the original is much cleaner to begin with.

I would expect the D700 image to be a lot less noisy because:

1) It's ISO 5600, so maybe there was more light available for that pic.
2) It's full frame, and the camera body costs $1000 more than the 7D. (It competes against the 5D, not the 7D.)

Anyways, which do you prefer, Noise Ninja or Topaz? (I'm on a Mac by the way.)

P.S. I should point out that my pic probably has slight motion blur too. It was shot at 1/13.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

As you can see, Standard mode smears fine details for noise elimination making it look like focus is slightly off. On the other hand, Neutral mode preserves fine details but it comes with costs: blocky pixel noise.
What more can I say? As you can see, the difference is quite clear.

Do you not shoot RAW?

P.S. Do you ever use the portrait style for portraits?

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Eug
Anyways, here is the pic after some heavy duty noise reduction.

Here's what ISO 5600 looks like on a D700 after Noise Ninja: Text (warning: full-size JPG)

Very nice quality, but what does the original look like? I would imagine the original is much cleaner to begin with.

I would expect the D700 image to be a lot less noisy because:

1) It's ISO 5600, so maybe there was more light available for that pic.
2) It's full frame, and the camera body costs $1000 more than the 7D. (It competes against the 5D, not the 7D.)

Anyways, which do you prefer, Noise Ninja or Topaz? (I'm on a Mac by the way.)

P.S. I should point out that my pic probably has slight motion blur too. It was shot at 1/13.

I do shoot RAW+JPEG only because there're a few of those images that I'm willing to work my ass off. In most cases, JPEG is way to go for me.

I do use Portrait Picture Style but never @ its default setting. My detailed settings are as follows:
Contrast -3, Saturation -2, Color Tone +2.
(Portrait Picture Style also smears details just like the Standard one)


BTW, As EUG pointed out, the lighting was better on D700 which can cause huge differences in noise level. Anyway, I'm interested in what can be done on NoiseNinja and Topaz if same set of images were given.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: Eug
A couple of pix I took today, at ISO 200 and ISO 6400

I see that you have Long Exposure Noise Reduction off, High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Standard, Auto Lighting Optimizer at Standard.

One tip from a Canon user:

When in low ISO shooting environment, turn off High ISO Speed Noise Reduction and stay away from Standard Picture Style. This may not matter if you don't care about your images being soft but if you're one of those who wish to have full deatil, just turn it off.

This is because a. Standard Picture Style smears detail for better noise control regardless of your camera's noise reduction setting. b. High ISO Speed Noise Reduction also smears detail even when you're using very low ISO; even @ ISO 100, it smears. So, as in your case, combining those two gets you no advantage while the penalty is high.
(Remember when 50D and 5D mk2 came out and based on samples from review sites, people were criticizing how they lack detail though MP count is high? Those two being the default setting caused it.)

In my case, I just leave High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low and use Neutral or Neutral based custom made picture styles. Leaving High ISO Speed Noise Reduction at Low gives me details that are as close as leaving it Disabled while it gets rid of color noises, keeping most of details. It also saves me from having to turning it off and on based on the environment.

Also, ALO is always off on my camera. If you're a novice, ALO might help but I just don't like how it fucks up the exposure unpredictably.

BTW, what's the point of using AI servo and Automatic Selection AF are mode when shooting a fire hydrant?

While I agree about high speed ISO noise reduction should be set to Low and ALO should be off, I have seen no proof in my use of my 50D that picture styles has anything to do with noise reduction.

Of course ALO and ISO noise reduction has no effect if you just shoot RAW in the first place.

Regardless of body settings, try taking shots with Standard and Neutral Picture Style. Difference is quite evident. It also makes difference in file size as more noise = more information. On my 5d mk2, picture A that is shot with Standard Picture Style was 8.12MB whereas the Neutral one was 11.6MB.

First of all, I ran your test on my 50D, the neutral shot always came out to be slightly smaller in file size. Whether it was JPG or Raw

Second of all, if we're talking JPG the noise should be more visible in standard mode as this mode applies sharpening. This will accentuate any noise that is already in the image.

Lastly, Increasing saturation with bolder colors like Normal mode does should also accentuate color noise, which I noticed to some extent. Neutral was obviously softer due to the lower sharpness setting.

I noticed no overall difference in the noise level that shouldn't be expected due to the increase in sharpness and saturation. This also doesn't apply to RAW images as no "picture" style is applied to a RAW image. It only affects the image preview when displayed on your camera.

here are my "results"

Neutral JPG
1. 5.48MB
2. 5.53MB
3. 5.50MB
4. 5.52MB
5. 5.53MB

standard JPG
1. 6.47MB
2. 6.45MB
3. 6.46MB
4. 6.48MB
5. 6.51MB

O.K. Do this for me, please.

Set your ISO 1600. Take two shots: a. use Standard Picture Style b. Neutral Picture Style.
Exposure and everything should remain the same except above two.

Crop any sections of the images and post 'em on the web.

You, I, and everyone would be able to see different noise algorithms applied as you can see indivisual pixels being smeared on Standard Picture Style mode.

I noticed the difference between our two setups from your PP. You didn't mention it before but you changed neutral picture style to have equal sharpening to that of standard. Once I did this then yes, there is a difference between the two. This is interesting to note whenever you use JPG. Thanks for pointing it out.

Also note that this will affect the preview of your image even when shot in RAW on camera. From what I understand, the camera processes the RAW image with the picture style settings before being displayed as a "in camera JPG" even if JPG i turned off.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Eug
1) It's ISO 5600, so maybe there was more light available for that pic.
2) It's full frame, and the camera body costs $1000 more than the 7D. (It competes against the 5D, not the 7D.)

You're right about 1, since that's about a 1/3rd stop lower ISO, and my picture was f/2.8 at 1/60s at 50mm.

As for 2, I paid about $2250 for a new D700 from Adorama. This was before Nikon's price increase at the beginning of the year. From what I hear, Canon is about to raise their prices by 10% pretty soon.

Anyways, which do you prefer, Noise Ninja or Topaz? (I'm on a Mac by the way.)

You should upload a full-resolution RAW file and I can work it through Capture One Pro and Noise Ninja; you can compare. I don't have Topaz (I use a PC).

 

[Eug]

Moon pic with 7D & 400 mm f/5.6L + 1.4X teleconverter

 

[swtethan]

ugh.... Im really debating on getting a 7d or 5dmk2

is it worth the $1000 difference????

I shoot with a 1Ds right now and im worried about IQ


heres a 1Ds sample

http://farm3.static.flickr.com...70236_fb96d1a549_b.jpg

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: swtethan
I shoot with a 1Ds right now and im worried about IQ

Then get the 5D2. After seeing the low-ISO "maze" pattern noise on the 7D, I'm not sure I would get the camera. Lots of samples on DPReview forums.

http://forums.dpreview.com/for...=1019&message=33283944

http://forums.dpreview.com/for...=1019&message=33281726

http://forums.dpreview.com/for...=1019&message=33322176

 

[Eug]

^^^ ACR doesn't count, since it doesn't actually support the 7D yet.

P.S. I've been trying to retake that moon shot because it has some motion blur (mirror slap). However, the weather has sucked for the past week.

 

[swtethan]

I got the 5dmk2

heres the first photo

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3782/img0033x.jpg

 

[jpeyton]

Low-ISO pattern noise linked to bodies. It wasn't just an ACR issue.

 

[Eug]

I wonder how much of that is purely chance, and how much due to software.

Patterned noise in certain settings and not in others.

Anyways, a firmware update is pending.