787 electrical fires, they keep cropping up.

[LTC8K6]

Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim

It's just ExTended OPerationS now, and it really covers all airliners, not just twin jets.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Today reports of an oil leak and a cracking in windshield.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...d-787-window-oil-leak-add-to-boeing-woes.html

All Nippon Airways Co. (9202), the biggest operator of Boeing Co. (BA) 787 planes, said a Dreamliner cockpit window cracked during a flight today and another jet leaked oil, adding to a series of glitches the aircraft suffered this week.


Could the 787 be the 21st century De Havilland Comet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet

A year after entering commercial service, Comet airframes began suffering catastrophic metal fatigue, with three of them tearing apart during mid-flight in well-publicised accidents. The Comet was withdrawn from service and extensively tested to discover the cause; the first incident had been incorrectly blamed on adverse weather. Design flaws including window shape and installation methodology were ultimately identified; consequently the Comet was extensively redesigned with oval windows, structural reinforcement and other changes. Rival manufacturers meanwhile heeded the lessons learned from the Comet while developing their own aircraft.

 

[LTC8K6]

Cracked cockpit windows probably happen a dozen times a day on airliners. Cockpit windows are electrically heated on airliners. It's very common for the temperature differences to crack the outer pane.

Oil leaks, too.

Both are very common.

 

[rockyct]

Yes, and they used LEGOs to build the fuselage...

Yep, they even have a kit for it: http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Make-Crea.../dp/B000FIH06O

 

[ichy]

I don't recall when they started certifying twin engine jets for ETOPs, specifically trans Pacific flights, but I think it was less than twenty years ago?

It seems strange to allow new planes to fly long distances from any landing field before there has been some amount of history for a brand new plane.
It sounds like they are far too trusting of technology. Especially when we have examples of fires that might doom a plane that was too far from a landing field.

Just my 2 cents but I would like to see them fly 6 months non ETOPS just to work out the bugs.

Concerns about ETOPS make no sense. Fire doesn't care whether you have two engines or four.

The first ETOPS flight was in 1985 BTW.

 

[randomrogue]

If you look at the history of Boeing and Airbus releases this seems to be relatively normal. They work the kinks out. Didn't the new Airbus have cracks in the wings?

I think it's being blown out of proportion.

 

[StrangerGuy]

News like this makes me wonder if our level of technology is getting too complex for us to grasp fully.

 

[ichy]

News like this makes me wonder if our level of technology is getting too complex for us to grasp fully.

Ridiculous statements. Despite their complexity modern commercial airliners have an astonishingly good safety record. Clearly we "grasp" our technology pretty well.

 

[Number1]

US regulators are taking th problem seriously and have ordered an review. Hopefully they will get to the bottom of this quickly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20988117



It used to be that cockpits looked like this

Now they look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjb3yeuVNf4

A380 3D cockpit view

 

[Red Squirrel]

News like this makes me wonder if our level of technology is getting too complex for us to grasp fully.

That, or it's just being rushed more than it ever was. So we have more complex technology, and less time to make/test/perfect it. It's all about money, not perfection.

The typical exec/manager's way of thinking is: "It works! Ship it! No we don't have time to run more tests, it cost too much, ship it now! Now!" This goes with lot of stuff. Sadly it seems planes too. D:

Look at simpler things like a video game console. You never had to update a NES or SNES, because they perfected it. I can plug one in today and it will work fine.

Get a new console, and it wants to update even if you picked it up the day of release!

 

[Red Squirrel]

Woah awesome, that looks like a space ship cockpit.

 

[H54]

Nope, quite a few small pax planes have no APU and need no APU.

Some just have batteries.

Some have a RAT.

Some have a combination. Most big airliners have several ways of getting power.

Some RATS supply electricity, some supply hydraulic pressure, some supply both.

Sometimes a windmilling turbine or prop will provide some power.

Many airliners can't dump fuel, either.

IIRC, the 747's APU can't be started in flight. 4 generators are considered enough redundancy.

Keep in mind that the RAT is only an emergency system. I also, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the APU on the 747 cannot be started in flight as it would partially defeat the purpose of having one. Sure, most APUs have on the ground and inflight limitations for starting and operation but to not be able start it in flight is preposterous.

 

[H54]

Cracked cockpit windows probably happen a dozen times a day on airliners. Cockpit windows are electrically heated on airliners. It's very common for the temperature differences to crack the outer pane.

Oil leaks, too.

Both are very common.

Exactly. There are several drains (gang drains mainly) that are used for venting various fluids. In fact, there are a few aircraft that leak so much that the joke in the industry is that its bad when the engine isn't leaking because you know its out of oil!

 

[StrangerGuy]

Woah awesome, that looks like a space ship cockpit.

I don't like it though, looks really cheap plastic-y like the interior of a Prius.

 

[SsupernovaE]

US regulators are taking th problem seriously and have ordered an review. Hopefully they will get to the bottom of this quickly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20988117



It used to be that cockpits looked like this

Now they look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjb3yeuVNf4

A380 3D cockpit view

787 cockpit

 

[Gintaras]

News like this makes me wonder if our level of technology is getting too complex for us to grasp fully.

That's what they're working on....

 

[Red Squirrel]

787 cockpit

"This mofo is one sweeeeet ride bro! Lets crank some tunes!"

 

[Ns1]

stop it boeing!

(CNN) -- A Boeing 787 Dreamliner made an emergency landing in Japan early Wednesday morning after an alarm signal on a battery activated, a spokesman for All Nippon Airways said. The incident follows a string of recent mechanical and other problems associated with the 787.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/travel/japan-dreamliner-emergency-landing/index.html?on.cnn=1

 

[Number1]

All Nippon Airways-operated Boeing 787 makes emergency landing in Japan after smoke seen in cockpit

They grounded the fleet.

 

[LTC8K6]

Keep in mind that the RAT is only an emergency system. I also, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the APU on the 747 cannot be started in flight as it would partially defeat the purpose of having one. Sure, most APUs have on the ground and inflight limitations for starting and operation but to not be able start it in flight is preposterous.

There are 4 engines, each with a generator, and each capable of "windmiiling" to supply electric and hydraulic power. There are also batteries.

The windmilling capability means a RAT is not necessary, either.

The APU is not necessary, except on the ground.

This is on the 744. The classics varied, and the new 748 has a RAT.

 

[Red Squirrel]

lol wow talk about a lemon of a plane. It's a good thing there were no crashes though. Some of these issues can turn serious FAST sometimes.

 

[wirednuts]

i agree, the ONLY reason we still have plane problems is money. technology is there to make them reliable.

 

[AmdEmAll]

All Nippon Airways-operated Boeing 787 makes emergency landing in Japan after smoke seen in cockpit

They grounded the fleet.

I hate to see this Hope they can figure out what the issue is.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Boeing = largest exporter in the US. This 787, like it or not, is a flag-bearer of sorts for US manufacturing. It puts a plight on everything...what little we have.

 

[Rifter]

Not really worried, every single 787 in the world could burst into flames and kill everyone on board and air travel would still be orders of magnatute safer than car travel.

They will work out the bugs.