780 vs R9 390 (NOT NV vs AMD)

[Insomniator]

Hey everyone -- I've had an Asus GTX 780 for about 2 years now, paid $365 for it used after selling my 7950 for almost that much during the mining craze.

The card has been great, quiet, performance hasn't mattered much since I've played 90% Dota and Sc2 since I got it. Starting to play Overwatch now -- same deal silky smooth.

Question is, I could probably still get $200 for the 780 right now and pick up an R9 390 like this for ~$100 extra.

I have a Korean 2560x1440 monitor on the way that I plan to mess around with OC'ing to 75 or 100hz, whatever it will do. Wondering if 100 bucks for an upgrade to the 390 would better prepare me for gaming at that resolution. While I do mostly play the mentioned games, I do like to pick up the newest graphic power house FPS whenever it comes down in price (ie Farcry 4).

What kind of jump could I expect?

EDIT actually I have 20 bucks in newegg points + the amex deal for 25 off 200 right now... so I can take 45 off any card on there. I just read that 390's have been cheaper than this before... if one came down to 275 - my 45 = 230. Would be almost a straight trade? Worth the hassle?

 

[thesmokingman]

The last I saw a 780 for 200 was last month on hardocp. I'm pretty sure you can still get that much for it. As for your resolution, the 8gb will be great for it. There are other choices, as there will always be other choices but there is nothing at that price point with 8gb.

 

[happy medium]

Or you could get a gtx970 with promo code for 278.39 = your 20$ newegg dollars- 25$ AMEX card = $233.39 right now and a free game.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500362

sell the 780 for $200=$33.39 and you get a free game.

 

[Majcric]

Op, to me it wouldn't be worth the trouble. I would either opt for the 980ti or Fury x for a true upgrade. Otherwise wait for the node shrink and grab a card.

 

[Silverforce11]

Just wait, it can't be that long for next-gen mid-range to arrive. I would say ~6 months we will see a mid-range Pascal or Artic Island that mops the floor with Fury X and 980Ti.

 

[RussianSensation]

What kind of jump could I expect?

EDIT actually I have 20 bucks in newegg points + the amex deal for 25 off 200 right now... so I can take 45 off any card on there. I just read that 390's have been cheaper than this before... if one came down to 275 - my 45 = 230. Would be almost a straight trade? Worth the hassle?

I would do it without question to a 390/970. $30-40 extra to get a much more powerful GPU with more VRAM? Yes please.

390 ~ 290X, so you should get ~ 25% more performance for $30-40. Considering games paid almost double the price of a 290X for a 980 to get that much performance, and that required max overclocking on the 980, to get a 25% increase for $30-40 and more VRAM is a great deal.

Just make sure to check individual games too. If you play ProjectCARS, Anno 2205, GTA V, lean 970. Also, the $25 off $200 on AMEX is going to be in effect for a while. You could wait to see SW:BF and Fallout 4 benchmarks and see what deals come up around Black Friday to snatch a 390/390X/970/980.

New info came out that there are also a lot of NV-specific optimizations in regard to volumetric lighting/tiled deferred lighting and tessellated God Rays in FO4. I'd strongly recommend you wait to see the benchmarks of that game in case you plan on playing it before considering 390 as 970 could be better. The sales on 970/390 aren't going anywhere and if anything will only get better.

 

[Insomniator]

True, but my 780 will only depreciate more. Even now 200 might be a stretch :O

Didn't think I'd be talking about upgrading to a 970 when that first came out. Was basically even to the 780 if I remember.

 

[96Firebird]

Be aware, that monitor you've got coming probably only has a DVI-D connection. I believe overclocked 1440p panels don't work well with adapters such as HDMI-->DVI and DP-->DVI, but maybe someone with some better knowledge on the subject can chime in. So it'd be best to look for a card with at least one DVI-D output.

 

[Insomniator]

Be aware, that monitor you've got coming probably only has a DVI-D connection. I believe overclocked 1440p panels don't work well with adapters such as HDMI-->DVI and DP-->DVI, but maybe someone with some better knowledge on the subject can chime in. So it'd be best to look for a card with at least one DVI-D output.

Yeah its a dvi - d only version as they OC better. Won't be using any adapters. It looks like most cards still have DVI-D on them, my current 780 does.

 

[Teizo]

I like this graph better...performance per watt. Although, granted when it comes to price, a 390 or 970 are hard to argue against (I got this 980 at a good price though so @ 1440p Ultra settings it was worth it to me to increase my minimum frame rates w/4xMSAA).

 

[RussianSensation]

I like this graph better...performance per watt. Although, granted when it comes to price, a 390 or 970 are hard to argue against (I got this 980 at a good price though so @ 1440p Ultra settings it was worth it to me to increase my minimum frame rates w/4xMSAA).

Ya, if perf/watt is a priority, then definitely 970 over 390 or 980 over 390X. Having said that, there are plenty of cool and quiet 390/390X cards and the major price increase on a 980 means it'll take 5+ years to recoup the cost difference in electricity fees. Therefore, I personally do not see how perf/watt was a major factor here. 970 also loses to a 390 at 1440P. The 980 is a good deal at $350-370 but I can't seem to find any such deals right now.

If the OP flips his 780 for $190-200 (i.e., locks the resale value) with his $25 off $200 and $20 gift card, free performance and more VRAM is a very cost effective upgrade. He should just have realistic expectations though or otherwise he'd really need to step up to the 980Ti.

The 980 is barely faster than a 390 at 1440P so it's extremely hard to justify a $450 980 when 390 is under $300. That's a 50% difference in price.

Having said that, the OP should review games he plays/intends to play. For example, in ProjectCARs/Anno 2205/WoW, NV has a huge lead. If someone spends a lot of time playing those games, then 390 shouldn't even be considered.

I'd also wait for FO4 benchmarks to have an additional data point.

 

[Mondozei]

Performance per watt is such a desperate measure to cover for NV - and I say that as a GTX 980 owner. It's time to bury that nonsense.

To OP: At 1080p, NV has an advantage. As you go up in resolution, AMD's advantage (at stock speeds) grows. Since you're on 1440p, a 390 will do very well for you. I wouldn't care too much about the 8 GB VRAM unless you plan to do a ton of modding in games like Fallout 4, in which it might come in handy.

The GTX 780 has aged terribly, but it's still a good card for low-performance titles like the ones you mentioned. Then again, I'd say the 7950 is too(although at 1080p). If you can sell it for 200, then go for it. Now is the time to sell.

Perceptions change slowly. I'm amazed that you can get used aftermarket 290s for cheaper than a 780 even if the 290 is unquestionably faster even today and with DX12 that will increase even more. Sooner or later, the general mass perception of this will fall in line with reality, at which it will be harder to sell your GPU for such (inflated) prices. So, strike while the iron is hot.

P.S. Good deal you got on your monitor, congrats.

 

[Teizo]

Performance per watt is such a desperate measure to cover for NV - and I say that as a GTX 980 owner. It's time to bury that nonsense.

I was speaking for myself, not for Nvidia or trying to cover for the higher cost. When I decided to re-trade with Newegg and get the MSI Gaming 4G 980, it was $450 after rebate which was only $100 more than the 970 100ME. To me, that was worth it. I based my decision on [H]'s review of the 390 and 390X. Both of those cards are good cards, but overall the MSI 980 had what I was needing this time around as I play mostly BF4. The cards are close @ 1440p Ultra settings with 4xMSAA, but the 980 generally came out on top each time, especially after overclocking. The reason I posted the PPW is simply because @ $450, while there is still a bit of a price premium (it is not 'that' drastic) it simply shows how well designed the card is, and if you can get one around $450...I think it is a decent deal personally.

Now, having said that....the ONLY reason I did it was because of the sale they ran. At $520 and up, I would not recommend the 980 at all. By comparison, the 390X, or 970/390 would make more sense.

Sorry OP. Was not trying to make the thread about me. I would personally in your situation if you have the money get the 390, or maybe the Gigabyte 970 which is the same price as the 390 depending on what games you play (since it is shown the 970 is faster than the 780 quite a bit).

 

[aaksheytalwar]

Stock for stock a 390 is currently at least 30-40% faster, has 8GB VRAM and will age much much better. Worth an additional USD 100-200 IMO.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Be aware, that monitor you've got coming probably only has a DVI-D connection. I believe overclocked 1440p panels don't work well with adapters such as HDMI-->DVI and DP-->DVI, but maybe someone with some better knowledge on the subject can chime in. So it'd be best to look for a card with at least one DVI-D output.

Got a qnix 2710 @110Hz. Overclocks the same with HDMI adapter and DP adapter and a 7870 and 970. You want to stay with the one output or they are more expensive and as OP points out, dont overlock as well.

 

[Insomniator]

Got the monitor today (3 days early) and wow, set it to 96 hz and its so weird. So... smooth....

 

[thesmokingman]

It might be a hard sell right this moment with some 970s going for 233 bucks.

 

[Deders]

For what it's worth, Yesterday I benchmarked Atilla Total War to compare it to benchmarks in Custom PC magazine where they were testing a round-up of z170 boards with an XFX 390X Double Dissipation card.

Granted it is only one example, and the test was devised in a way to compare the different boards so it was set to Quality with no AA and it was running at 1920x1080 which is different to your usage but my overclocked 780 beat every test at the same settings by at least 10fps.

It might be a different story with everything maxed and at your resolution.

The extra memory of the 390 is very likely to come in useful soon.

 

[vissarix]

Hey everyone -- I've had an Asus GTX 780 for about 2 years now, paid $365 for it used after selling my 7950 for almost that much during the mining craze.

The card has been great, quiet, performance hasn't mattered much since I've played 90% Dota and Sc2 since I got it. Starting to play Overwatch now -- same deal silky smooth.

Question is, I could probably still get $200 for the 780 right now and pick up an R9 390 like this for ~$100 extra.

I have a Korean 2560x1440 monitor on the way that I plan to mess around with OC'ing to 75 or 100hz, whatever it will do. Wondering if 100 bucks for an upgrade to the 390 would better prepare me for gaming at that resolution. While I do mostly play the mentioned games, I do like to pick up the newest graphic power house FPS whenever it comes down in price (ie Farcry 4).

What kind of jump could I expect?

EDIT actually I have 20 bucks in newegg points + the amex deal for 25 off 200 right now... so I can take 45 off any card on there. I just read that 390's have been cheaper than this before... if one came down to 275 - my 45 = 230. Would be almost a straight trade? Worth the hassle?

have you tried overclocking this gpu? if not head to overclock.net find a custom bios and flash it...alot of them can do 1300mhz+ and at that point it would have same performance if not faster then a r9 390...

btw on games like gta v, witcher 3, far cry 4, shadow of mordor, ryse of rome even a gtx 980ti struggles at 1440p, so you will have to turn settings down anyway...keep you gpu and upgrade next year when next gen gpu's will arrive.

 

[Head1985]

Just wait, it can't be that long for next-gen mid-range to arrive. I would say ~6 months we will see a mid-range Pascal or Artic Island that mops the floor with Fury X and 980Ti.

this..
next midrange will be 40-50% faster than 980TI and with 160-180w TDP.

 

[Face2Face]

have you tried overclocking this gpu? if not head to overclock.net find a custom bios and flash it...alot of them can do 1300mhz+ and at that point it would have same performance if not faster then a r9 390...

btw on games like gta v, witcher 3, far cry 4, shadow of mordor, ryse of rome even a gtx 980ti struggles at 1440p, so you will have to turn settings down anyway...keep you gpu and upgrade next year when next gen gpu's will arrive.

+1

BUT...

1300MHz is really not that common on custom GTX 780s. I'm thinking 1175-1225MHz+ Even then, they really start to wake up.


Everyone also needs to keep in mind, most of the reference models they link in benchmarks are not even boosting to 1GHz. I know there is a lot of disdain for the GTX 780's, and for some very valid reasons, but when overclocked to the range above, they run very well in most games.

I also game @ 1440 and I can tell you as of right "now" there are not many games that I play where 3GB of VRAM is an issue. Even SOM for some odd reason runs well with ultra textures, which it shouldn't...

I'm hoping my GTX 780 doesn't run like crap in FO4, as it's their recommend GPU (probably for 1080p), but if it does then I'll picket at NVIDIA's local office, which is about 20 miles from me

Anyway, if your card overclocks well, then I'd wait until next gen.

Got the monitor today (3 days early) and wow, set it to 96 hz and its so weird. So... smooth....

I understand I run mine @ 96Hz and love it.

 

[RussianSensation]

For what it's worth, Yesterday I benchmarked Atilla Total War to compare it to benchmarks in Custom PC magazine where they were testing a round-up of z170 boards with an XFX 390X Double Dissipation card.

Granted it is only one example, and the test was devised in a way to compare the different boards so it was set to Quality with no AA and it was running at 1920x1080 which is different to your usage but my overclocked 780 beat every test at the same settings by at least 10fps.

Sounds almost impossible to believe that an overclocked 780 would outperform 390X by 10 fps in Attila TW. 10 fps higher than a 390X is well into Fury X territory, and much faster than a 980. I doubt that no AA vs. AA would swing the results in 780's favor.

At 1080P on AT, 390X is 28% faster than a stock 780.

At 1440P, the OP's resolution, that difference grows to 41%.

Focusing on just 1 game also misses the point of how much faster the 390 is against the 780.

Here is a quick breakdown per Guru3D at 2560x1440

390 vs. 780

GTA V = +23%
Thief = +26%
The Witcher 3 = +34%
In SoM, 390 matches 980 which means 780 would be slaughtered here by 30%+.
Tomb Raider = +30%
Bioshock Infinite = +7%
BF Hardline = +33%
Hitman Absolution = +30%

Then there is the fact that 780 has 3GB of VRAM vs. 390's 8GB.

With horribly optimized console to PC ports, you never know when 3GB will start crippling minimum FPS - Black Ops 3 @ 1440P has 390X blowing the doors off 970/780Ti in minimum fps. Granted, this game is horribly optimized but still if he can sell his 780 for $200 and step up to a 390 for $30-40 out of pocket, there is little to think about.

With 290X easily outperforming 970 in preliminary DX12 benchmarks, and 390/390X doing so well in SW: BF and Black Ops 3, there is no way I would keep a 780 if it costs just $30-40 to upgrade to a 390.

At this point I would just wait for FO4 benches to make a decision between a 970 and 390 for 1440P but I'd be looking to sell 780 if I could get a $200 price and take advantage of $25 off $200 AMEX Newegg deal since it guarantees more performance, better driver support, more VRAM and better DX12 performance in either the 970 or the 390 against the aging 780.

this..
next midrange will be 40-50% faster than 980TI and with 160-180w TDP.

It makes it way less stressful to wait for a good deal on a 16nm GPU when you have 25-30% more performance, way more VRAM and driver optimizations behind your card (aka 970 or 390). For $30-40 net cash outlay, this is a no brainer imo. The performance of Kepler cards is so inconsistent that sooner or later it's going to be very hard to sell them imo.

 

[Face2Face]

SNIP

I ran some of these benchmarks below. I used the same settings as Guru3D, and ran all of the games @ 1440p.

I overclocked my GTX 780 to 1150 MHz on the core and 1656 MHz on the memory. These are very "AVG" overclocks for a GTX 780, so most cards reference or custom shouldn't have a problem hitting them.

Take note, I'm not using a custom BIOS on my card, so using Boost 2.0 clocks range from 1100 MHz to 1150 MHz when running these benches.

Here is a quick breakdown of the numbers:

HD 390 @ (1010/1500) vs. GTX 780 @ 1150/1656)

GTA V --- 390 = 58 FPS --- 780 = 55 FPS --- 5% Difference
Thief --- 390 = 54 FPS --- 780 = 50 FPS --- 8% Difference
Shadow of Mordor --- 390 = 78 FPS --- 780 = 69 FPS --- 13% Difference
Tomb Raider --- 390 = 96 FPS --- 780 = 85 FPS --- 13 % Difference
Hitman Absolution --- 390 = 70 FPS --- 780 = 65 FPS --- 8% Difference

I wasn't' able to bench the other games in the this suite, but we can see with an AVG overcloced GTX 780 we're not terribly behind. Obviously the 390 isn't overclocked, so the gap would be larger if it was.

I guess the purpose of me doing this is to show the OP if decided to OC his card a little bit, it should hold him over until next gen. Of course... FO4 could change all of that

 

[happy medium]

wrong thread

 

[thesmokingman]

I ran some of these benchmarks below. I used the same settings as Guru3D, and ran all of the games @ 1440p.

I overclocked my GTX 780 to 1150 MHz on the core and 1656 MHz on the memory. These are very "AVG" overclocks for a GTX 780, so most cards reference or custom shouldn't have a problem hitting them.

Take note, I'm not using a custom BIOS on my card, so using Boost 2.0 clocks range from 1100 MHz to 1150 MHz when running these benches.

Here is a quick breakdown of the numbers:

HD 390 @ (1010/1500) vs. GTX 780 @ 1150/1656)

GTA V --- 390 = 58 FPS --- 780 = 55 FPS --- 5% Difference
Thief --- 390 = 54 FPS --- 780 = 50 FPS --- 8% Difference
Shadow of Mordor --- 390 = 78 FPS --- 780 = 69 FPS --- 13% Difference
Tomb Raider --- 390 = 96 FPS --- 780 = 85 FPS --- 13 % Difference
Hitman Absolution --- 390 = 70 FPS --- 780 = 65 FPS --- 8% Difference

I wasn't' able to bench the other games in the this suite, but we can see with an AVG overcloced GTX 780 we're not terribly behind. Obviously the 390 isn't overclocked, so the gap would be larger if it was.

I guess the purpose of me doing this is to show the OP if decided to OC his card a little bit, it should hold him over until next gen. Of course... FO4 could change all of that

Nice work. If you have the cooling for it oc and wait it out.