70% of of US PhD graduates are foreign born

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,962
456
126
Stupid untouchable, didn't I say that the numeral system was invented by the Indians? The idiotic example you gave proves my point that many people from around the world expanded on the fundamentals of math and science, which were mostly, if not all, Asian in origin.

Dude, I've been reading this thread with great interest, and was looking at the arguments between various folks (but without the intent to jump in the discussion) until that bolded part in your quote made me sit up and notice. Dude... you burned your own bridge... By using a caste-related form of verbal admonishment, you basically demonstrated that what your opponent(s) say about your bias was right all along. Too bad.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
So anecdotal evidence is the law of the land now? foreign born or US born Asians are about 6% of US population or ~18 Millions. How many did you get to meet to fullfil your "scientific" therory?

Let see. Companies such as Yahoo, Zippo, Tagged, Monoprice... just to name a few were found/co found by Asians.

One more thing, there is a little well know website that was found by another Asian.....it is called..........AnandTech...<gasping in disbelieve>.

Yup. Look like whities domineering American are required to succeed as you stated.....Not!!!

<<---undergrad and grad US college degrees plus own company (all of that on my own will and power) and foreign born. Maybe I need a to hire a whitie or two to make it big, eh?

Are you ignorant or racist (or both)? "Whitie" is considered a racial epithet by many. You and Baasha are the only ones that have brought race into this.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
Are you ignorant or racist (or both)? "Whitie" is considered a racial epithet by many. You and Baasha are the only ones that have brought race into this.

My bad, how about "cracker"? Would that do, whitie masta? :D<I know you never said what race you are>.

BTW, remember this gem (before you accuse someone as racist)?

The point was that immigrants committed more rapes per capita than non-immigrants.

See the similarity of broad brush generalize statement from you and Brigandier?
 
Last edited:

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
My bad, how about "cracker"? Would that do, whitie masta? :D<I know you never said what race you are>.

BTW, remember this gem (before you accuse someone as racist)?

See the similarity of broad brush generalize statement from you and Brigandier?

You really still don't get it? The point of the OTHER POSTER was that immigrants committed more rapes in SWEDEN ACCORDING TO A STUDY THERE. That was not my conclusion.

And immigrant status has nothing to do with race, you dense moron. The only one attacking race is YOU, bigot. (Edit: and Baasha)
 
Last edited:

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
You really still don't get it? The point of the OTHER POSTER was that immigrants committed more rapes in SWEDEN ACCORDING TO A STUDY THERE. That was not my conclusion.

And immigrant status has nothing to do with race, you dense moron. The only one attacking race is YOU, bigot.

Teeheee, is that all you got? Same ole song (name callings) from you.

We are done here. My previous post was for Brigandier. Let him reply to my post. Go away, whitie cracker. Supreme Aryan is that way----->
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Teeheee, is that all you got? Same ole song (name callings) from you.

We are done here. My previous post was for Brigandier. Let him reply to my post. Go away, whitie cracker. Supreme Aryan is that way----->

So you don't like name calling but you're happy to say "whitie cracker?" Stay classy.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Such equations, and every principle in science and math, are founded on the numeral system. That was invented by Asians. Geometry, Trigonometry, astronomy, among many other fields were the forte of Indian mathematicians.

In fact, here's a proof for the thievery of the west: Pythagorean Theorem isn't from Pythagoras, it's from the Baudhayana Sulba Sutra, from India. Again, not only do westerners attach their names to everything as if they own it, they do it to discoveries and inventions they have never made!
That may be the dumbest thing typed this week on the Internet, congrats. Equations and principles scientific and mathematical are not "founded on the numeral system", they are expressed in the "numeral system." Such things could equally well be expressed in a binary or base twelve system. And if memory serves, our numeral system is actually Arabic in origin, and a Greek astronomer developed the all important concept of zero - although granted it was an Indian astronomer who recognized the game-changing importance of zero as a concept not only for counting stars, but for all practical mathematics.

Ascribing racial origins for innovation is always tricky. Undeniably, early innovation was primarily Eastern, meaning Greek, Byzantine, Arabic, Persian, Chinese and, yes, Indian. Probably Indian influences were strongest in early innovation. Just as undeniably, innovation moved mainly to the West for more than a millennium, first to Europe and later to America. And now leadership in innovation is undeniably shifting back to the East, at least to China and India. In prehistory innovation was no doubt mostly African, and after or during China's and India's coming glory it may shift back to Africa or to South America. Wherever there are significant numbers of people, there will be periods in which those people contribute significantly or even dominantly to innovation, and periods in which they do not.

More significantly, pride in others' accomplishments due to shared race, religion or ethnicity, or even country of origin is rather hollow. And the Pythagorean Theorem was known to Greek, Chinese, and Babylonian mathematicians - and probably to New World and Egyptian engineers as well - as well as to Indian mathematicians. Claiming absolute Indian origin for that is just silly. And anyway, Pythagoras was Greek - often considered a fellow Eastern civilization itself. (Although admittedly that's Western hubris to demarcate between East and West at Greece and/or the Mediterranean nations when well over half of Eurasia still lies east of Greece.)
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
That may be the dumbest thing typed this week on the Internet, congrats. Equations and principles scientific and mathematical are not "founded on the numeral system", they are expressed in the "numeral system." Such things could equally well be expressed in a binary or base twelve system. And if memory serves, our numeral system is actually Arabic in origin, and a Greek astronomer developed the all important concept of zero - although granted it was an Indian astronomer who recognized the game-changing importance of zero as a concept not only for counting stars, but for all practical mathematics.

Ascribing racial origins for innovation is always tricky. Undeniably, early innovation was primarily Eastern, meaning Greek, Byzantine, Arabic, Persian, Chinese and, yes, Indian. Probably Indian influences were strongest in early innovation. Just as undeniably, innovation moved mainly to the West for more than a millennium, first to Europe and later to America. And now leadership in innovation is undeniably shifting back to the East, at least to China and India. In prehistory innovation was no doubt mostly African, and after or during China's and India's coming glory it may shift back to Africa or to South America. Wherever there are significant numbers of people, there will be periods in which those people contribute significantly or even dominantly to innovation, and periods in which they do not.

More significantly, pride in others' accomplishments due to shared race, religion or ethnicity, or even country of origin is rather hollow. And the Pythagorean Theorem was known to Greek, Chinese, and Babylonian mathematicians - and probably to New World and Egyptian engineers as well - as well as to Indian mathematicians. Claiming absolute Indian origin for that is just silly. And anyway, Pythagoras was Greek - often considered a fellow Eastern civilization itself. (Although admittedly that's Western hubris to demarcate between East and West at Greece and/or the Mediterranean nations when well over half of Eurasia still lies east of Greece.)
Spoken like a filthy, insolent untouchable! :D
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Spoken like a filthy, insolent untouchable! :D
LOL
Baasha doesn't understand that a society can't have Untouchables unless they agree they are Untouchables, so he thinks that is an insult. America is relatively unique in that we have no nobility, no tribes, and no castes; even the poorest American considers himself just as good as any other person anywhere, including nobility. (Granted, it took us a couple hundred years to get that idea actually enforced in law for minorities.)
 

cutforscience

Banned
Jun 10, 2011
291
0
0
Modern science IS western culture, doofus. All the modern scientific contributions up until recently have been from Europe and the US. The reason Asia is rising now in that department is because they adopted western values. And if you're talking about more Asian children going into math and science that is only true because of their cookie-cutter do what mom and dad tell me to do culture. You know, the same kind of mentality that loves the caste system like you do. Hopefully one day you will try to assimilate into your host country.

You seem to be implying that Asians are inferior to Whites. Well, I definitively wouldn't rule that out as a possibility, but if you think modern science is a result of some sort of European exceptionalism, you are dead wrong. First, of all, not everyone if born equal; however, you can't generalize and say that all individual of a certain race is inferior, that's just ludicrous. You can easily differentiate someone who is of very low intelligence to someone who is of superior intelligence.

A person with a large braincase, large rectangular face, with an elliptic dental arc can be thought as a superior being. You will probably say: "There is no correlation between intelligence and brain size". That's a fair point, but it is kind of short-sighted. Intelligence depends on a number of factors and not just genetics.

In my opinion, passion is a more important determiner of genius-level intelligence than genetics among individuals of superior intelligence. You can easily see that the most notable figures in science are far from looking like the most intelligent beings out there. It even seems that judges look smarter than scientists, although it is very possible that the latter have superior IQ in general.

Moreover, Nobel Prize is not a function of creativity, that's absurd, and as far as I know citations per paper may be a better indicator of superior intelligence or whatever. There are many factors that may contribute to what we observe, and probably the most important are historical factors. It should be noted that in Asia, the elites were more preoccupied with maintaining social order and having a sustainable growth--green growth if you like; whereas Westerners wanted to grow as fast as possible and as long as possible at all cost, both at the expense of environment and other people's sovereignty. Westerners had a very materialistic and individualistic outlook on life.

Their mentality eventually led to the industrialization of their country, which was essential for the development of modern science--more capital to fund research, better instrumentation, etc. There are, of course, other factors I failed to mention, but really they should be obvious to anyone with a brain.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Makes sense, one way to improve your market position is high education. Natives have good market positioning already.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,081
10,883
136
We kick them out as soon as the graduate, yet oddly enough people care more about welcoming unskilled, undocumented laborers with open arms than granting the cream of the educated foreigners a path to citizenship.

oh how this pisses me off so much. it makes NO FUCKING SENSE.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
oh how this pisses me off so much. it makes NO FUCKING SENSE.

We should be booting almost all of them all out and focusing on employing Americans, both educated Americans and high school dropouts. Contrary to popular belief, there's no shortage of Americans with advanced degrees and more would obtain advanced degrees in STEM fields if it provided a proper return on investment. Having STEM fields flooded with foreigners results in a glut that discourages the best and brightest Americans from going into those fields. See:

The Real Science Gap

It's not insufficient schooling or a shortage of scientists. It's a lack of job opportunities. Americans need the reasonable hope that spending their youth preparing to do science will provide a satisfactory career.

What laypeople like most Anandtechers don't know is that university science research is a huge pyramid scheme. Professors use cheap graduate student labor to get the research done, spit them out into low-paid postdocs, and then move on to another crop. What we need to do is to restructure our science research system so that we produce fewer scientists but employ them all at reasonable wages.
 
Last edited:

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
We should be booting almost all of them all out and focusing on employing Americans, both educated Americans and high school dropouts. Contrary to popular belief, there's no shortage of Americans with advanced degrees and more would obtain advanced degrees in STEM fields if it provided a proper return on investment. Having STEM fields flooded with foreigners results in a glut that discourages the best and brightest Americans from going into those fields. See:

The Real Science Gap



What laypeople like most Anandtechers don't know is that university science research is a huge pyramid scheme. Professors use cheap graduate student labor to get the research done, spit them out into low-paid postdocs, and then move on to another crop. What we need to do is to restructure our science research system so that we produce fewer scientists but employ them all at reasonable wages.

It could be that bringing intelligent people from other places enriches us.....maybe just maybe..
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,081
10,883
136
We should be booting almost all of them all out and focusing on employing Americans, both educated Americans and high school dropouts. Contrary to popular belief, there's no shortage of Americans with advanced degrees and more would obtain advanced degrees in STEM fields if it provided a proper return on investment. Having STEM fields flooded with foreigners results in a glut that discourages the best and brightest Americans from going into those fields. See:

The Real Science Gap



What laypeople like most Anandtechers don't know is that university science research is a huge pyramid scheme. Professors use cheap graduate student labor to get the research done, spit them out into low-paid postdocs, and then move on to another crop. What we need to do is to restructure our science research system so that we produce fewer scientists but employ them all at reasonable wages.

it's pretty obvious if you do any research at all in a university (or just pay attention to the grad students) that that is how the system works. slave away for a while, get an MS or a PhD.

so with this "glut" of foreigners, what you're saying is that students go into other fields like business and psychology, which are already flooded and a dime a dozen, and that's somehow supposed to give them a better ROI?

maybe instead of getting discouraged, these american kids should show these foreign students that they're just as good or better in science and engineering. maybe instead of expecting to pass a class, they should actually study and LEARN. science isn't easy, but i can't begin to tell you how many people *expected that it should be easy*

what's a "reasonable" wage to you for a scientist/engineer? With an MS out of school, I started at 67k, and a friend of mine, also MS, started at 70k. I'd call that pretty damn reasonable. Perhaps people should stop looking for jobs in a 5 mile radius and be willing to relocate. I bet that is half the problem in filling positions right there.

It could be that bringing intelligent people from other places enriches us.....maybe just maybe..

prettymuch where i was going, lumberg. after all, if these people *become* americans, that's all the better.
 

polarmystery

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,888
8
81
In the U.S., too many people want to be the chief (Program/Project Managers, Executives,etc.) but nobody wants to do the actual work (Scientists, Engineers,etc). Name me one college where the college of business doesn't drastically outweigh the college of engineering (given the option that both types of advancement are available to the student).
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,581
2,939
136
it's pretty obvious if you do any research at all in a university (or just pay attention to the grad students) that that is how the system works. slave away for a while, get an MS or a PhD.

so with this "glut" of foreigners, what you're saying is that students go into other fields like business and psychology, which are already flooded and a dime a dozen, and that's somehow supposed to give them a better ROI?

maybe instead of getting discouraged, these american kids should show these foreign students that they're just as good or better in science and engineering. maybe instead of expecting to pass a class, they should actually study and LEARN. science isn't easy, but i can't begin to tell you how many people *expected that it should be easy*

what's a "reasonable" wage to you for a scientist/engineer? With an MS out of school, I started at 67k, and a friend of mine, also MS, started at 70k. I'd call that pretty damn reasonable. Perhaps people should stop looking for jobs in a 5 mile radius and be willing to relocate. I bet that is half the problem in filling positions right there.



prettymuch where i was going, lumberg. after all, if these people *become* americans, that's all the better.
I have a PhD in chemistry from UCLA, which is generally regarded as a top 20 school, and I'm a year into a post-doc at Columbia, certainly a top 10 school. I can't even get a callback for an interview.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
yes, it does matter, because these are the people who are discovering and innovating in the science and technology realms.

Huh? It's more like Edison's lab, where his staff discovered most of what he took credit for...