7 Million People Haven't Made A Single Student Loan Payment In At Least A Year

[Londo_Jowo]

Obviously you've never met anyone that had their wages garnished by the government (federal, state, or local). They take a percentage of wages and really don't care whether you can afford it or not. They can also take control of your checking or savings account.

 

[Vic]

Blue_Max posted opinions about student loan policies that was reasonably on topic and out of nowhere Moonbeam called him a misogynist. It didn't have anything to do with anything he posted in this thread. And now you're saying it's fair game for him to be criticized for being a douchebag.

I don't want a forum where people follow each other around threads to flame them into submission. If you must harass people at least do it in private where it doesn't derail threads.

What he posted was so grossly inaccurate that it was not really on topic IMO. Student loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy nor are schools being forced by 'frivolous lawsuits' to accept students who use such financing.

 

[Vic]

I lend out more money in a year than you have in your whole life shit-for-brains. When you don't underwrite credit and have a non-dischargable loan, your credit is your collateral.

Now go back to your puny ass mortgages and leave this problem to the big boys.

How do you determine your equity in that 'collateral?'

 

[LegendKiller]

How do you determine your equity in that 'collateral?'

How do you value an endless non dischargeable cash flow stream?

Credit is collateral.

 

[fskimospy]

How do you value an endless non dischargeable cash flow stream?

Credit is collateral.

Except of course that collateral is a specific claim against an asset that the lender can use to mitigate losses in the case of a default. Not only does the lender not have a claim against your credit rating as you don't own your credit rating or have final say in what it is, but your credit rating is not an asset which the lender can use to recoup losses in case of a default.

It does not meet the definition of collateral by any source that I am aware of for those reasons (among others). Can you tell me where you got this idea from?

 

[LegendKiller]

Except of course that collateral is a specific claim against an asset that the lender can use to mitigate losses in the case of a default. Not only does the lender not have a claim against your credit rating as you don't own your credit rating or have final say in what it is, but your credit rating is not an asset which the lender can use to recoup losses in case of a default.

It does not meet the definition of collateral by any source that I am aware of for those reasons (among others). Can you tell me where you got this idea from?

Student loans are not like any other asset and perform very different from any other unsecured consumer loan out there.

There is not a single other asset in the world where you are a debt slave for life. None. You effectively have a lien on the life of the borrower. Tell me, what is a lien if not collateral?


Sure, you don't have a physical title, or a UCC filing, but you have something far more important. You have the Bankruptcy code and IRS code. Both of which clearly state you own your borrower, utterly. The only exceptions are severe economic hardship and disability. In both cases your collateral (their life) is impaired. The only other "student loan" that is dischargeable is career training since that is not a "qualified educational expense" according to the IRS code.


This is not up for debate. It is black letter law.

You sign that loan and they own your life. Death, taxes, student loans.

Period.

 

[fskimospy]

Student loans are not like any other asset and perform very different from any other unsecured consumer loan out there.

There is not a single other asset in the world where you are a debt slave for life. None. You effectively have a lien on the life of the borrower. Tell me, what is a lien if not collateral?

Sure, you don't have a physical title, or a UCC filing, but you have something far more important. You have the Bankruptcy code and IRS code. Both of which clearly state you own your borrower, utterly. The only exceptions are severe economic hardship and disability. In both cases your collateral (their life) is impaired. The only other "student loan" that is dischargeable is career training since that is not a "qualified educational expense" according to the IRS code.

This is not up for debate. It is black letter law.

You sign that loan and they own your life. Death, taxes, student loans.

Period.

While I would say that you're exaggerating the amount of control the lender has over the borrower as there are deferments out the wazoo, income based repayment, discharge after nonprofit or public service, etc, I agree that a lien on future earnings reasonably qualifies as a form of collateral.

 

[LegendKiller]

While I would say that you're exaggerating the amount of control the lender has over the borrower as there are deferments out the wazoo, income based repayment, discharge after nonprofit or public service, etc, I agree that a lien on future earnings reasonably qualifies as a form of collateral.

Deferment and forbearance, and now IBR (only 25% of scheduled payments being made by 30% of borrowers!!) are affordability measures offered but not required. They can be cut off quickly.

 

[fskimospy]

Deferment and forbearance, and now IBR (only 25% of scheduled payments being made by 30% of borrowers!!) are affordability measures offered but not required. They can be cut off quickly.

In practice they could not be, and if the federal government tried they would be mired in lawsuits for a long time. I don't think it's a realistic option.

 

[LegendKiller]

In practice they could not be, and if the federal government tried they would be mired in lawsuits for a long time. I don't think it's a realistic option.

I know for a fact they can be. Deferment and forbearance terms *were* limited to 24 Mos but are now left up to servicer discretion. So we now have a large % of people on long termed deferment and forbearance. The call on future earnings has not gone away but the payments are just pushed out.

I didn't mean they would 100% go away, I meant that the criteria could be stiffened and the length significantly reduced.

 

[Moonbeam]

Maybe we'll start seeing people get denied for student loans if it doesn't look like they show any reasonable prospects of being able to pay them off. And then maybe tuition costs will start coming down.

But at best this will take a very long time to really start happening, and at worst it's a pipe dream. Something is going to collapse more fantastically.



Blue_Max posted opinions about student loan policies that was reasonably on topic and out of nowhere Moonbeam called him a misogynist. It didn't have anything to do with anything he posted in this thread. And now you're saying it's fair game for him to be criticized for being a douchebag.

I don't want a forum where people follow each other around threads to flame them into submission. If you must harass people at least do it in private where it doesn't derail threads.

Right, go over to the climate change thread and see what the misogynist posted there. If the douchebag wants to shit in one thread he can eat it in another. Let me predict for you that Blue_Balls will keep right on posting his mental illness regardless of what I say.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Good to know that Moonbeam is a stalker too.

 

[Moonbeam]

Good to know that Moonbeam is a stalker too.

No history behind that post, right?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Your posts are all the proof needed.

 

[bigi]

Summary Video

 

[Vic]

How do you value an endless non dischargeable cash flow stream?

Credit is collateral.

What you're saying may work in theory, but the reality is that unless you can put a value on it and calculate an equity position to fall back on in case of default, it is not collateral.

If your arrogance and sloppy underwriting mentality is any indication of the overall student loan market, I expect a very large scale default in the near future, followed by massive debt cancelation and stringent government regulation.

 

[Humpy]

Some people actually go in with the strategy to take on a big loan, get edjumcashun (useful or otherwise) then hold off on the payments as long as possible so the loaners get desperate and lower the amount or even write it off, or just claim bankruptcy if the schooling doesn't pay off in a high-paying job.

I'd like to see the end of these loans. Go back to much lower rates but require cash up front. (Unlikely since schools are losing profits to so many frivolous lawsuits.)

My strategy was similar when I recently got an accounting degree. Borrow as much as possible, pay a token monthly amount via IBR, work a cushy government job with great benefits for 10 years, loan then discharged via PSLF. In the end I'll only pay back about 25% of what I borrowed, saving somewhere around $200K in principal and interest had I made minimum standard payments.

 

[Moonbeam]

My strategy was similar when I recently got an accounting degree. Borrow as much as possible, pay a token monthly amount via IBR, work a cushy government job with great benefits for 10 years, loan then discharged via PSLF. In the end I'll only pay back about 25% of what I borrowed, saving somewhere around $200K in principal and interest had I made minimum standard payments.

EDIT: I misjudged your post and I apologize.

 

[Moonbeam]

Your posts are all the proof needed.

Yup, post 63 just proved that.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

LMAO!!! You admitted such in post 61.

I like the way your evil and hatred shows through more and more every day in here.

 

[Vic]

If your self-serving arrogance and disgusting immoral mentality are any indication of the overall student loan market, I expect a very large scale default in the near future, followed by massive debt cancelation and stringent government regulation.

PSLF is nothing like a bankruptcy, nor even arrogant or immoral IMO. More employers (besides the government) should offer such programs IMO. Education is something that should be rewarded, and not penalized, IMO.

The issue that I have with LK is that treating a borrower's life as collateral only works when such 'repossessions' are relatively isolated. For example, prior to the housing bust, it was relatively easy for banks to foreclose on borrowers who defaulted on their mortgages. However, once the defaults increased to a certain magnitude, public pressure prompted the government to step in and regulate, preventing lenders from timely repossession of the collateral even in instances where such was warranted.
The same thing is likely to occur with student loans if lenders have LK's attitude.

 

[bshole]

Student loans are not like any other asset and perform very different from any other unsecured consumer loan out there.

There is not a single other asset in the world where you are a debt slave for life. None. You effectively have a lien on the life of the borrower. Tell me, what is a lien if not collateral?

Didn't they change the law to make credit card debt impervious to bankruptcy as well? Bankruptcy has become an almost useless entity for those of the middle class and lower. The banks have changed all the rules to favor themselves.

 

[Moonbeam]

PSLF is nothing like a bankruptcy, nor even arrogant or immoral IMO. More employers (besides the government) should offer such programs IMO. Education is something that should be rewarded, and not penalized, IMO.

The issue that I have with LK is that treating a borrower's life as collateral only works when such 'repossessions' are relatively isolated. For example, prior to the housing bust, it was relatively easy for banks to foreclose on borrowers who defaulted on their mortgages. However, once the defaults increased to a certain magnitude, public pressure prompted the government to step in and regulate, preventing lenders from timely repossession of the collateral even in instances where such was warranted.
The same thing is likely to occur with student loans if lenders have LK's attitude.

My mistake. I agree that more student loan forgiveness is needed. I thought I heard somebody bragging about how he avoided debt by playing games. I created my own altered reality.

 

[Moonbeam]

LMAO!!! You admitted such in post 61.

I like the way your evil and hatred shows through more and more every day in here.

I speak out against misogyny. I hold it in contempt. The only way I know to combat misogynistic speech is to ridicule the speaker, just as your hatred of my hate makes you ridicule me. I also speak out against pornography. I'm not too keen on racists either. Unlike you apparently, I don't like it when I see these things in others. I'm not hoping that people show their evil.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I speak out against misogyny. I hold it in contempt. The only way I know to combat misogynistic speech is to ridicule the speaker, just as your hatred of my hate makes you ridicule me. I also speak out against pornography. I'm not too keen on racists either. Unlike you apparently, I don't like it when I see these things in others. I'm not hoping that people show their evil.

Great, speak out against it though it helps if the person is actually in the process of doing said thing when you call them out as it makes no sense otherwise.

I don't hate your "hate". However, it's very clear to see your hatred boiling over throughout the forum.