6850 vs 5850 - did I make the right choice?

[blckgrffn]

My dad called me today and said he is getting black screens (audio continues) and slow performance in BC2 with his GDDR4 3870.

I thought this over - and since I am going to be home for Christmas I decided I'd have him buy a new video card and I'd take a new OCZ ModXStream 500W Pro down with me. Originally I had thought I was going to get the Palit GTX 460 1GB for $140 AMIR from Microcenter. The horrible reviews of that card on NewEgg scared me off. They have a 768 460 GTX EVGA for $130 AMIR.

That got me thinking about finding something more powerful, my dad said he was willing to spend $150, making the rest a gift from me I suppose.

NewEgg had these to offer:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-386-_-Product <-- PowerColor 5850 - $170 (overnight shipping and rush ordering it brought it up to $196)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0Video%20Cards <-- Sapphire 6850, $170 AMIR and there is an additional $15 discount code. Figuring the difference would be that $15, but I would have to hack the UPC out of Christmas gift and wait for the MIR for it be anything but the same price.

I am also concerned that the latest Catalysts drivers seem to be crap (had to roll back on my 4830 setup just this week after my PC became unstable with the latest drivers...) and that the 5850 as the older card might have more mature driver support.

Given that I would submit the rebate, did I make the right choice in picking the 5850 over the 6850?

Pretty sure either card will be a large upgrade from the 3870...

 

[ImDonly1]

Can't go wrong with either. Both are good cards. I just bought a 6850 though. I bought it because it was cheaper. I guess I can wait on the rebate. That and I wanted a more efficient/quieter card. If the 5850 was $150 I would have bought it I think.

By black screens do you mean, the game is unresponsive? Because it is common for the screen to turn black and flicker a little for 1-2 seconds then come back normally in BC2. Happens with lots of cards (ATI and nVidia).

 

[happy medium]

Mabe you could have tried the 460gtx 768mb for $93 AR?
Mabe buy 2?
In hot deals.

 

[dualsmp]

What resolution is his monitor? If it's 1680x1050 or below the 460 768MB card should be plenty.

 

[ImDonly1]

Mabe you could have tried the 460gtx 768mb for $93 AR?
Mabe buy 2?
In hot deals.

Yes that is a good deal, but there are two rebates for a total of $60. And its tigerdirect, which is known to deny rebates for no reason. Doesn't seem like the OP wants to deal with rebates.

 

[happy medium]

And its tigerdirect, which is known to deny rebates for no reason.

Never heard of this. Who told you that?

Link to deal.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2129547

 

[MentalIlness]

I think you made the right choice. The 5850 is faster than the 6850, and apparently is cheaper.

Which I did not know.

 

[Termie]

OP - you made a good decision. Those cards are the same price before rebate (including code), and the 5850 is faster. That Powercolor model seems to be new (no reviews), but there won't likely be any surprises with a 5850.

One thing to keep in mind is that you need two PCIe power connectors for the 5850 but only one for the 6850. You are bringing an OCZ power supply with you, right? Does it have two plugs? It's not critical, since you can use adapters too. The 5850 uses a bit more power than the 6850, but either should be fine on a decent 500w PSU.

If your dad has a 3870, I'm betting he's got an old rig. He'll almost certainly have more GPU than he can use now, but if he was ok with spending $150, no worries.

 

[3DVagabond]

If I were offered the choice between an 6850 and a 5850 for similar prices, I'd choose the 5850 too. Unless there was another limitation like card size or PSU limitation.

 

[blckgrffn]

Good to hear, folks, thank you

The black screen has come for him Wolfenstein and BC2. He has to reboot to get video back. To me it sounds like the video driver is failing and not recovering, but I had issues with this card in Crysis doing similar things. Its a factory OC card and clocking down a bit resolved the issue, but my Dad was pretty frustrated with it so it seemed like an ideal time to get him to upgrade. He has been going cheap on me lately, he was scheduled for an upgrade last winter but delayed it...

Ironically, my Dad has an Intel/Nvidia 650i SLI board - but I don't want any support headaches at all so I am avoiding SLI. The e6400 is indeed going to make it an unbalance rig, but its at stock clocks currently and I plan turning it up to ~2.6ghz where I had it the entire time I owned it.

He has a 24" 1080p Viewsonic monitor - he adjust video settings when he installs games to that resolution and normally only inverts the mouse and avoids hitting any other sliders or buttons. Due to the resolution and the likely three year life of this card, I wanted to get a 1GB frame buffer, minimum.

The power supply I am taking down does indeed have a six pin and eight pin whereas the current one may or may not have 2 six pin connectors according to the OCZ website.

Next winter we'll see how much ~$350 can get with regards to a CPU/mobo/ram combo. My dad is a farmer, so I barter computer parts and installation for a 1/4 cow (steer, technically) every other year

Thanks again for the responses, I appreciate your time and consideration.

 

[Avalon]

Can't go wrong either way! Good to see you back in the video forums

 

[blckgrffn]

Can't go wrong either way! Good to see you back in the video forums

Hey Thanks! Didn't have much to contribute with the ol' 4830s and The Wife makes sure I am not slurping up $200-$300 video cards every 4-6 months anymore

It is a weird feeling that the video forums aren't quite the flamefest/troll bait that they were back when we had the guy in your sig, for instance. The good old days!

 

[Termie]

Hey Thanks! Didn't have much to contribute with the ol' 4830s and The Wife makes sure I am not slurping up $200-$300 video cards every 4-6 months anymore

How do those 4830s run in crossfire? I have my brother set up on my old e6600/975x and a single 4830. Seemed like a pretty good balance, but you have the quad (which was a great investment). Probably plays close to a GTX460 768, right? Amazingly, you can still pick up a 4830 for cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-381-_-Product

You're getting a ton of utility out of a system that is really 2006/2007 vintage for the MB/CPU, respectively.

 

[blckgrffn]

How do those 4830s run in crossfire? I have my brother set up on my old e6600/975x and a single 4830. Seemed like a pretty good balance, but you have the quad (which was a great investment). Probably plays close to a GTX460 768, right? Amazingly, you can still pick up a 4830 for cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-381-_-Product

You're getting a ton of utility out of a system that is really 2006/2007 vintage for the MB/CPU, respectively.

In the spirit of contributing data to the forums, with semi current drivers, enjoy:

http://www.teamjuchems.com/?p=1188

Steam (Source) games shot way up, and there are some pretty solid bumps to minimum frame rates across the board. I am thinking of buying Crysis Warhead as Anandtech put that out there as the "ringer" game - the one that can pretty accurately predict how a setup will run in a variety of circumstances.

Not sure if you wouldn't just be better off with a better single card and flipping your card for ~$45 or whatever you could net off the FS/FT.

Yes, the Q6700/975 was such a great investment that I am in a difficult spot. I finished grad school this fall and The Wife said I could celebrate and spend $1k on computer upgrades. That seems like a waste - I could just put in a 6950 or 2x 6850's - or even the 5850 mentioned above and get a lot more mileage out of my rig. I have a 40GB Intel SSD ready to go for when I feel like a fresh install - I am still running my Vista in place upgrade!

So, I am trying to convince her to let me buy a 1080p projector instead - but with baby #1 on the way, she doesn't think we are going to use the movie room anymore. I just can't win

 

[Termie]

In the spirit of contributing data to the forums, with semi current drivers, enjoy:

http://www.teamjuchems.com/?p=1188

Steam (Source) games shot way up, and there are some pretty solid bumps to minimum frame rates across the board. I am thinking of buying Crysis Warhead as Anandtech put that out there as the "ringer" game - the one that can pretty accurately predict how a setup will run in a variety of circumstances.

Not sure if you wouldn't just be better off with a better single card and flipping your card for ~$45 or whatever you could net off the FS/FT.

Yes, the Q6700/975 was such a great investment that I am in a difficult spot. I finished grad school this fall and The Wife said I could celebrate and spend $1k on computer upgrades. That seems like a waste - I could just put in a 6950 or 2x 6850's - or even the 5850 mentioned above and get a lot more mileage out of my rig. I have a 40GB Intel SSD ready to go for when I feel like a fresh install - I am still running my Vista in place upgrade!

So, I am trying to convince her to let me buy a 1080p projector instead - but with baby #1 on the way, she doesn't think we are going to use the movie room anymore. I just can't win

Awesome - thanks for the info. It looks like you're getting about 35&#37; in modern games (Far Cry 2). Maybe it's the memory issue (512MB, I assume). Tempting, but I think you're right that other single-card upgrades might make more sense at this point, even if they are more expensive.

As for your upgrades, I think you've still got a great setup. See how that 5850 performs in your dad's comp, and maybe get one for yourself if it works out well. Guess you can't wrap one of the 4830s up and give it to him, huh?

And with a baby on the way, you better save your change. A 1080p projector is probably not on the must-have list!

 

[blckgrffn]

Awesome - thanks for the info. It looks like you're getting about 35% in modern games (Far Cry 2). Maybe it's the memory issue (512MB, I assume). Tempting, but I think you're right that other single-card upgrades might make more sense at this point, even if they are more expensive.

As for your upgrades, I think you've still got a great setup. See how that 5850 performs in your dad's comp, and maybe get one for yourself if it works out well. Guess you can't wrap one of the 4830s up and give it to him, huh?

And with a baby on the way, you better save your change. A 1080p projector is probably not on the must-have list!

My issue is likely the 512MB cards and 1920*1080p resolution. If I had spent the money for 1GB 4850's I'd probably be really hard pressed to pull the trigger. If I go the 6850 route, I can get another 6850 down the road without upgrading my power supply Not so true with the 5850. Wouldn't that be great, a pair of 6850's and Kenstfield processor?

I was going to give him one of the 4830s - but honestly, without AA the 4830 doesn't have as much as you might think on a 3870. In FurMark it was slower, actually.

Since my dad doesn't use AA, that 5850 should be good for some time.

I've been saving for quite a while (see that old rig in the sig? ) so I am going to celebrate finishing grad school with something. We've got quite a lot locked up for baby time - and after June what are the odds of me pushing a $1k purchase through? Significantly worse than now, let me tell you

 

[jacktesterson]

I would have gone 6850 myself. They also OC to near 6870 levels.

I just feel tessalation performance is going to become more important over next 2 yrs.

 

[Termie]

I would have gone 6850 myself. They also OC to near 6870 levels.

I just feel tessalation performance is going to become more important over next 2 yrs.

I disagree. The 6850 beats the 5850 in tesselation by about 8%, but loses to it in practically everything else. And the 5850 can overclock much higher than the 6850, to well past 6870 levels. Even an overvolted 6850 can't surpass a 6870: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study-5.html. An overvolted 5850 will crush a overvolted 6870, let alone a stock 6870.

Now if OP wants to crossfire some new cards in his own system, he might go 6850 for the lower power use and slightly better scaling. But OP, keep in mind that you'll be limited by those PCI 1.1 slots.

 

[RussianSensation]

I just feel tessalation performance is going to become more important over next 2 yrs.

Yes, tessellation will only become more important in the future. Of course looking back at history when DX9 games started to mature and come in full force, or DX10 games, no DX9/10 cards could max those games out. The same thing will happen with DX11 (and tessellation). In 2 years from now we will be gaming on HD7000/Kepler or even faster, at which point the tessellation "advantages" of HD6850 over 5850 will all but evaporate. If anything, HD68/69xx series are still behind NV in tessellation. So if this was the main selling point, it would only make sense to purchase an NV card.

Now if OP wants to crossfire some new cards in his own system, he might go 6850 for the lower power use and slightly better scaling. But OP, keep in mind that you'll be limited by those PCI 1.1 slots.

PCIe 1.0 16x = PCIe 2.0 8x

Most people agree that there is only a 2-3&#37; performance drop in using PCIe 2.0 8x/8x CF on say socket 1156 boards over a full-fledged 16x/16x 1366 board.

 

[jacktesterson]

I disagree. The 6850 beats the 5850 in tesselation by about 8%, but loses to it in practically everything else. And the 5850 can overclock much higher than the 6850, to well past 6870 levels. Even an overvolted 6850 can't surpass a 6870: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study-5.html. An overvolted 5850 will crush a overvolted 6870, let alone a stock 6870.

Now if OP wants to crossfire some new cards in his own system, he might go 6850 for the lower power use and slightly better scaling. But OP, keep in mind that you'll be limited by those PCI 1.1 slots.

Those 1.1 slots will be 1-3% slower...

And I went from a 5970+ 5850 setup to 2x 6950s and am getting near equal performance at a lot less power and noise. The 6xxx series scaling is out of this world good.

 

[Termie]

Those 1.1 slots will be 1-3&#37; slower...

You're thinking x8/x8 vs. x16/x16. The difference in using 1.1 vs. 2.0 is much greater:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-pci-express,2095-5.html

With crossfired 4870s, they found a difference of about 25-50% at high resolutions/AA. With dual 6850s, the difference would be even greater. Unfortunately, applied to modern crossfire, a 975x motherboard starts to look dated.

 

[blckgrffn]

You're thinking x8/x8 vs. x16/x16. The difference in using 1.1 vs. 2.0 is much greater:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-pci-express,2095-5.html

With crossfired 4870s, they found a difference of about 25-50% at high resolutions/AA. With dual 6850s, the difference would be even greater. Unfortunately, applied to modern crossfire, a 975x motherboard starts to look dated.

Oh come on! Raining on the parade and all that Yes, first gen PCIe x8/x8 is all my poor four year old board can muster... One larger card is likely to fit the bill.

I can't be the only one bummed that TSMC dropped the ball and made this series of refreshes less than exciting...