6800nu memory problem

[drpootums]

I was looking at some benchmarks at X-bit labs and the 6800nu is almost as fast as the GT at 10x7 at "Pure Speed" (no aa/af), but at like 12x10 or 16x12 at "Eye Candy" (aa/af) it is behind, while sometimes being playable at 12x10. They say that the reason is because of the slow memory on the nu.

I'm guessing "slow memory" is one of these things:
-They might mean it has only 128mb's compared to 256mb's
-It might be because of the GDDR instead of the GDDR3
-It may be because of the slower memory clock speed
-Or, what i'm putting my money on, they mean the 12-pipes instead of the 16-pipe memory bus.

Could you tell me what one they mean, or if it's something different. If it is one of the 2 later that i put down, you can change that with either oc'ing or messing with the bios, so i'm not too worried if that be the case.

And, if you use RiveTuner to unlock those pipes, does it do something physical to the card, or does it just let you use something that unmask something that the hardware hides. And if it just unmasks something, would it accually void the warrenty as long as there are no bios swaps or anything?

Thanks for the help, and sorry if this sounds like a noobs question!

 

[Appledrop]

Originally posted by: drpootums
YES!!! ANOTHER 4 YEARS WITH A DECENT PRESIDENT!

k..? where do you live?your avatar says america, yet your sig says otherwise :l

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

The main reason the 6800 nu is slower than the GT at high res and AA is because these take up lots of video memory while lower resolutions do not. Becasue the GT has more it has to go to the system memory less often so it gives you more fps. The other three things you listed also affect performance just not as much as the memory

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: Azzy64

Originally posted by: drpootums
YES!!! ANOTHER 4 YEARS WITH A DECENT PRESIDENT!

k..? where do you live?your avatar says america, yet your sig says otherwise :l

Yep, i'm a proud republican. And BTW, this should be on the P&N, not here (not like i go there anymore, too many stubborn liberals...)


Thx computer man for answering my question. So the 128 mb's vs the 256 mb's is the biggest hit. But what about unlocking the pipes with rivatuner. If it just unmasks them does it still void the warrenty?

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: Azzy64

Originally posted by: drpootums
YES!!! ANOTHER 4 YEARS WITH A DECENT PRESIDENT!

k..? where do you live?your avatar says america, yet your sig says otherwise :l

not a prudent descision on your part azzy.

 

[BFG10K]

It may be because of the slower memory clock speed

Yup, or more specifically memory bandwidth. The vanilla 6800 has slightly less of it than a 9800XT.

 

[drpootums]

so, bandwidth isnt the # of pipes i guess, because the 6800 has more than the 9800XT in this area. Sorry, i dont understand some of this stuff, can someone explain to me specifically why it's slower, besides clock speed, pipes, lack of memory, and shaders? Thx!

 

[BFG10K]

so, bandwidth isnt the # of pipes i guess,

No. The number of pipes/shaders controls the fillrate and shader computation power. What keeps these fed is the memory bandwidth, which itself is dependent on things such as memory speed, width and memory saving techniques.

The 6800 has more fillrate/shader power (which is why it does well in low IQ situations) but its performance starts to drop off in high IQ situations because the bottleneck starts shifting to memory performance.

 

[drpootums]

so if i unlocked the pipes, shaders, and oc'ed the ram a bit it would be close to GT performance at about 12x10 even without all that ram right?

 

[klah]

Here is a good document about AA techniques: http://www.nvidia.com/attach/151/ [pdf]

There is a table on page 3 comparing how much memory is required for different levels of AA and resolution.

4xAA increases amount of memory needed by 300%.

The difference in memory use between 1024x768/noAA and 1600x1200/4xAA is over 600%.

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

I was looking at a 6800nu but bought a GT because I like 16x12 and the NU just can't run 16x12 lag free.

 

[SneakyStuff]

Originally posted by: drpootums
so if i unlocked the pipes, shaders, and oc'ed the ram a bit it would be close to GT performance at about 12x10 even without all that ram right?

unlocking the pipes would be a good thing, and it's really not that hard to do, just see if they all run artifact/checkerboard free in an intense game, like doom 3, or run 3dmark03 or something of that sort. And as far as the RAM goes, you may wanna check what kind it is, and see what nanosecond rating it has. Then you can see how fruitful overclocking it will be.

 

[BentValve]

Originally posted by: klah
Here is a good document about AA techniques: http://www.nvidia.com/attach/151/ [pdf]

There is a table on page 3 comparing how much memory is required for different levels of AA and resolution.

4xAA increases amount of memory needed by 300%.

The difference in memory use between 1024x768/noAA and 1600x1200/4xAA is over 600%.

That link is broken , would you fix it? Id like to read that paper.

I cannot seem to find it on Nvidia's site.

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

Originally posted by: BentValve

Originally posted by: klah
Here is a good document about AA techniques: http://www.nvidia.com/attach/151/ [pdf]

There is a table on page 3 comparing how much memory is required for different levels of AA and resolution.

4xAA increases amount of memory needed by 300%.

The difference in memory use between 1024x768/noAA and 1600x1200/4xAA is over 600%.

That link is broken , would you fix it? Id like to read that paper.

I cannot seem to find it on Nvidia's site.

I'd like to read it too

 

[BentValve]

For example look at Xbits labs Farcry benches here

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...splay/gf6800-oc_6.html




Here are my results on my BFG 6800 NU , unlocked at OCed to 371/835..

Resolution: 1280×1024
Maximum quality option, Direct3D renderer
Level: Pier, demo: 1.tmd
Pixel shader: default model
Antialising: 4×
Anisotrophic filtering: 8×
HDR: disabled
Geometry Instancing: disabled
Normal-maps compression: disabled

Score = 43.84 FPS (Run 1)
Score = 48.90 FPS (Run 2)
Average score = 46.36 FPS


So as you can see it performs right on par with a stock GT


Everything the same and 1600x1200 I get an average of 29 fps...at this point is where the memory becomes the bottleneck.

@ 1600x1200 with AA/AF off I get a score of 49 fps.

 

[drpootums]

ok, so i will be set for a while. I was thinking about a eVGA 6800 because of the step up program in case i decided i wanted a GT after a while, but after seeing the benches i think i will get a BFG 6800oc because of the cooling and extra stock speed.

Now i have 3 questions:
-how much noise does the BFG 6800oc make
-what do the temps usually stay at
-does RivaTuner just unmask the pipes? If so would that still void the warrenty if u didnt have any bios changes?

 

[ss284]

The bfg cooler is a piece of shit. The reference solution is better.

-Steve

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

1. The BFG is pretty quiet
2. Not sure about the NU but my GT idles at about 60C
3. Unlocking the pipes does void your warrenty

 

[drpootums]

ok, i heard online somewhere that RivaTuner just unmasks them, with no physical modifications on the card itself. With that in mind i just figured that the manufacturer wouldnt know and that the card would be exactly the same.

Are there any Black Friday deals on GT's? I saw a PNY 6800nu on sale for $200 at CompUSA for that day. If there is something like $350 or below for a decent name brand card, i may go that way. THX for the info, it's quite a big help for me!

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

Rivatuner does a softmod on them so the manufacturer would not know. Now its about your morals if it breaks

 

[drpootums]

o, ok i guess. So if RivaTuner softmods a card and then u take it out and put it in a new computer, would the extra pipes still be enabled?

 

[thegimp03]

So if RivaTuner softmods a card and then u take it out and put it in a new computer, would the extra pipes still be enabled?

I'm not sure...Best way to know is to start it up, install rivatuner, and look and see. On another note, I tried the rivatuner softmod and as soon as I started up 3dmark03 there were artifacts all over and the picture was not clear. I reversed to the old settings and restarted and the card (BFG) worked fine again. The card idles at 43 degrees C though and I don't notice any increase in noise from it. Overall, very pleased with this card...it's unfortunate my proc (2.4A) isn't doing it justice...

 

[Avalon]

If you put a softmodded card in a new computer, the pipes would no longer be unlocked. You are using software installed on your local computer to unlock the pipelines, so moving it to a different system will result in locked pipelines unless you install rivatuner on the new computer.

 

[BentValve]

Originally posted by: ss284
The bfg cooler is a piece of shit. The reference solution is better.

-Steve

Actually the BFG cooler is excellent, I am not sure where you heard that but its just not true.

Its pure copper , not aluminum like the Nvidia coolers, its got 2 sets of fine heatsink fans and dual fans that effectively blow thru them. My 6800 runs ice cold for the card that it is.


This is the cooler I am talking about..
http://www.bfgtech.com/images/6800OC_product_06.jpg


Plain and simple copper is a far better heatsink material than aluminum is, the only reason aluminum would be used is to save $$.
Copper conducts AND disipates heat faster than aluminum ..sure all designs are not created equal and even if BFGs design was not pefect they sure as heck made up for it in sheer mass and by having dual fans.

Its a heavy mofo for sure.

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

It must cool better for the NU. I have a GT and it idles at aroud 63C going up to about 80-85C under load with the BFG cooler