Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

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Kedas

Senior member
Dec 6, 2018
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Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"
 
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ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
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More than a month away, too late...
And the availability... I can already see only a few lucky ones getting one and all the negative reaction from all the others that waited so much for this thing, along with the collective disappointment at the performance.
There's no way this will be more than a curiosity at this point, right? Right?

I will be CRUSHED if I cannot get the 5800X3D. I've been waiting so darn long for another big cache CPU. But if it is near impossible to buy for MSRP, the wait for Zen 4 will begin...
 
Jul 27, 2020
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AMD could have their best ever April 1st joke. Flood the market with Zen 4 CPU's without any accompanying motherboard. I would definitely do that if I were AMD CEO. I would tell the world that the CPUs were ready so we decided to just put them on the shelves. However, motherboards are still undergoing validation so everyone has to wait.
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
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I will be CRUSHED if I cannot get the 5800X3D. I've been waiting so darn long for another big cache CPU. But if it is near impossible to buy for MSRP, the wait for Zen 4 will begin...

Eh, at this point I'm debating returning my 5900X and just waiting another 1-2 years.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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Can someone with more knowledge on TSMC 7nm HD process works Help me out here?

According to TSMC their High Density optimized SRAM cell libraries are 0.027 um^2. But if that was the case the L3$ Die on the 5800X3D which is about 36 mm^2 should have 256 MiB of ram..

1647376971463.png


I am basing my math on Anandtech article about TSMC 5nm(where they calculate um^2 x Megabit to get mm^2 die area)

1647378257511.png


I think that the numbers posted by Anandtech as far as mm^2 per Megabyte are off..

Here is something better, but still is half as Dense as the L3$ 3D Cache.


1647380693775.png

How is TSMC pulling the L3$ IO Die Densities? It boggles my mind.
 
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nicalandia

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Jan 10, 2019
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It's 2017 AMD Makes an Impressive Comeback, Their Top Performer 1800X is such a world class performer in Workstation class apps because at gaming is not that great. People Praises AMD..

1647436202969.png



It's 2022, AMD announces the 5800X3D the gaming King processor at $449 and a very good gaming line up(5600 for under $200) that will work on budget AM3 MB during a Pandemic, Chip Shortages, Miners and people still go out of their way to complain about the price?

1647453955567.png
 
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gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
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I think prices, at present, are reasonable. But AMD was late to the value options which is a bit concerning in my eyes. It may be a function of their limited production capacity but still it is overdue.
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
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Since When having Zen3 can disappoint anyone? At gaming or otherwise?

It was supposed to be "Zen 3 AND MORE!", not it's "just Zen 3 and more".
I can't see this anymore as anything other than just a curiosity.
K6-III+ was better more exciting than this!
I hope to be wrong but I'll stay here expecting the worse until proven wrong.
 
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moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Can someone with more knowledge on TSMC 7nm HD process works Help me out here?

According to TSMC their High Density optimized SRAM cell libraries are 0.027 um^2. But if that was the case the L3$ Die on the 5800X3D which is about 36 mm^2 should have 256 MiB of ram..

View attachment 58675


I am basing my math on Anandtech article about TSMC 5nm(where they calculate um^2 x Megabit to get mm^2 die area)

View attachment 58676


I think that the numbers posted by Anandtech as far as mm^2 per Megabyte are off..

Here is something better, but still is half as Dense as the L3$ 3D Cache.


View attachment 58677

How is TSMC pulling the L3$ IO Die Densities? It boggles my mind.
General rule of thumb: If you want to achieve higher frequencies you need to lower density. So even if the High Density optimized SRAM cell libraries are used for the X3D SRAM you'd want to lower the density until it can manage to handle a CPU potentially running past 5 GHz.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,530
1,616
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Who complains about the cost of CPU's these days? You can get reasonable priced CPU in every segment, but obviously the top processors are never those where you find the most value, and it never has been. The cost of a CPU fit for a gaming rig has if anything decreased over time, as the video cards are what limits your fps in gaming in most cases. For a modern gaming computer the cost of the video card is likely to be far greater than the CPU.

I'll reserve final judgment until reviews are out with retail products, especially user reviews here and other places before I complain too much. That said, you're looking at a price refloat at about 18 months since the 5800X was released at $450, done at a time where there isn't so much of a cpu shortage as late 2020-21, new stuff is due out later this year and you can get the original 5800X for $350 these days. Oh, and there is competition from Intel.

It is a gimmick release most likely, much like Intel has done in the past to retain the gaming preformance crown. All when you are probably better off just getting a cheaper (now anyway) 6 core from AMD for upgrades to AM4 systems or a new Intel i3/i5. That or go big and buy a 12 or 16 core and not worry about perf. in gaming or multi-threaded for the next 2-3 years as we wait for DDR5 and win11 to settle down and be stable.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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I'll reserve final judgment until reviews are out with retail products, especially user reviews here and other places before I complain too much. That said, you're looking at a price refloat at about 18 months since the 5800X was released at $450, done at a time where there isn't so much of a cpu shortage as late 2020-21, new stuff is due out later this year and you can get the original 5800X for $350 these days. Oh, and there is competition from Intel.

It is a gimmick release most likely, much like Intel has done in the past to retain the gaming preformance crown. All when you are probably better off just getting a cheaper (now anyway) 6 core from AMD for upgrades to AM4 systems or a new Intel i3/i5. That or go big and buy a 12 or 16 core and not worry about perf. in gaming or multi-threaded for the next 2-3 years as we wait for DDR5 and win11 to settle down and be stable.
OK, I have to reply here. This CPU has one purpose only. To take back the gaming crown from the 12900k. It will do that I bet. Yes, its niche. In all other workloads, the 5950x will dominate. I have a 12700F and so far it wins in nothing, even with AVX-512 enabled. (in distributed computing apps, NO gaming). For gaming, a good cpu, AMD or Intel can be had for less than $450. You want the gaming king ? Its $450, 5800X3d. You want productivity king ? Its AMD at $550 (if you have a microcenter close) or $600 (anywhere else). You want gaming at a decent price ? the 12700F might be it if you can find a decent video card. But AMD has some pretty good gaming CPUs at $300 or under.

So the 2 kings have their price, everything else is a contest.
 

szrpx

Member
Jan 12, 2022
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Hmm, the 1.35 V limit explains the clock speed differences I think. Zen 3 normally needs 1.4 V or more to hit those single thread clockspeeds.

1.35 should still be enough for multi-core workloads, the difference between the 5800X3D and 5800X in multicore workloads shouldn't be very large, even if the cores have a bit less power to work with because of the V-cache needing some of the power budget.

Well, barring potential thermal concerns, of course. That will have to be investigated at launch.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
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It's 2022, AMD announces the 5800X3D the gaming King processor at $449 and a very good gaming line up(5600 for under $200) that will work on budget AM3 MB during a Pandemic, Chip Shortages, Miners and people still go out of their way to complain about the price?

The 1800x was good at a lot of things, whereas the 5800X3D is an unknown at this point. We can only reasonably surmise that it will be good at gaming but not for combo gaming + streaming (which is normally a strength for AMD; a 5800X3D will require a separate streaming box). It may also be underwhelming as an applications CPU.

If it proves to be a faster gaming CPU than even Raphael under certain circumstances, it'll have some legs.

Great move by AMD. Their chips no longer supposedly scale above 1.35V so they take away frequency and voltage controls.

How about me and other undervolting users you useless corporate marketing liers. I run 5950x at 4.4Ghz and ~1.15V and i don't care if your chip disintegrates above 1.35V.

You can probably set LLC to 0/off and just let it droop. Works great on my 3900X. They may yet allow reduced voltage, nobody knows how it's going to work.
 

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
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Great move by AMD. Their chips no longer supposedly scale above 1.35V so they take away frequency and voltage controls.

How about me and other undervolting users you useless corporate marketing liers. I run 5950x at 4.4Ghz and ~1.15V and i don't care if your chip disintegrates above 1.35V.

The tweet says nothing about if that includes automated options like PBO and curve optimiser. Rob said nothing about PBO or Curve optimiser either. Just said clock and voltage adjustment will be hard blocked.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
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You can probably set LLC to 0/off and just let it droop. Works great on my 3900X. They may yet allow reduced voltage, nobody knows how it's going to work.

LLC or curve optimizer are not optimal and frequency controls are more important for proper undervolting. I am less worried about voltage, as motherboard VRM can simply ignore what CPU asks and feed whatever is set.

It's the direction of AMD that is disappointing. If Intel's 10nm was still in trouble, we'd have zen4 based FX-57 for $1500 and rest of lineup locked. Exclusive to Lenovo ofc.
 
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Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
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Great move by AMD. Their chips no longer supposedly scale above 1.35V so they take away frequency and voltage controls.

How about me and other undervolting users you useless corporate marketing liers. I run 5950x at 4.4Ghz and ~1.15V and i don't care if your chip disintegrates above 1.35V.

:rolleyes: What did AMD lie about?

LLC or curve optimizer are not optimal and frequency controls are more important for proper undervolting. I am less worried about voltage, as motherboard VRM can simply ignore what CPU asks and feed whatever is set.

It's the direction of AMD that is disappointing. If Intel's 10nm was still in trouble, we'd have zen4 based FX-57 for $1500 and rest of lineup locked. Exclusive to Lenovo ofc.

You're being overly pissy and it's annoying. Threadripper beats the piss out of Xeons yet it is still priced competitively. That kind of throws away your "$1500 FX-57" pulled out of thin air bull.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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It's the direction of AMD that is disappointing. If Intel's 10nm was still in trouble, we'd have zen4 based FX-57 for $1500 and rest of lineup locked. Exclusive to Lenovo ofc.
AMD appears to have earnest troubles running 5800X3D at above 1.35V and decides to hamfistedly disable OC altogether as a way to prevent possible bad things (like RMAs) happening, and that's the conclusion you take from that? :tearsofjoy:
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
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LLC or curve optimizer are not optimal and frequency controls are more important for proper undervolting.

Well, if all I do is lower LLC on my 3900x, I actually get higher all-core boost limits on my 3900x, which is really quite interesting. And also lower single-core boost limits. So there's a tradeoff. Yes I can also set like 4.2 GHz static and actually set a pretty low voltage were I so inclined to do so, and again, that might be possible with the 5800X3D . . . we haven't seen how it interacts with Ryzen Master or anything like that.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
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AMD appears to have earnest troubles running 5800X3D at above 1.35V and decides to hamfistedly disable OC altogether as a way to prevent possible bad things (like RMAs) happening, and that's the conclusion you take from that? :tearsofjoy:

The logic of these forums is just awesome:

AMD goes from awesome and accesible to the enthusiast threadrippers to Lenovo locked bs: "but but Threadripper beats the piss out of Xeons"
AMD takes away tuning from a single Ryzen SKU: "but but it is to limit RMA"
AMD does not release 1700x like SKUs in ZEN3 gen and rises ASP across the board for same core counts: "but but AMD can do no wrong"

It's the transformation of AMD from enthusiast friendly underdog is most likely the problem here, but i guess even if it was written on the wall, local ADF members would miss it.
 
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Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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The logic of these forums is just awesome:

AMD goes from awesome and accesible to the enthusiast threadrippers to Lenovo locked bs: "but but Threadripper beats the piss out of Xeons"
AMD takes away tuning from a single Ryzen SKU: "but but it is to limit RMA"
AMD does not release 1700x like SKUs in ZEN3 gen and rises ASP across the board for same core counts: "but but AMD can do no wrong"

It's the transformation of AMD from enthusiast friendly underdog is most likely the problem here, but i guess even if it was written on the wall, local ADF members would miss it.

That's not what I said genius. You said that if Intel was still stuck AMD would be releasing $1500 options presumable on AM4. I said that was nonsense because AMD is not price gouging with Threadripper where they absolutely destroy Xeons. AMD could easily charge a few thousand more but they have yet to do that.

No one supports Lenovo locking AMD CPU's to their boards so I don't know why you are bringing that up.

AMD increased prices with Zen 3 because the performance commanded it. If you wanted to argue that they didn't release lower end Zen 3 parts that would be different. Plenty of people wished they did but they could only produce so much on 7nm.

No one ever said that AMD can do no wrong, so why put that in quotes? Nice straw man. If you don't like AMD's products or practices, buy Intel and stop bitching. At the very least do it somewhere else because it is annoying and we don't want to see you complain just because. If you had a valid argument that would be different but I have yet to see one.

Apparently you thought AMD was good enough to buy a 5950X. What changed to sour your opinion of them so much?