Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

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Kedas

Senior member
Dec 6, 2018
355
339
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Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"
 
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Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,506
7,765
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Man, eff WCCFTech. I'm a bit tipsy from drinking beer all day watching football, but I DGAF so here's what I think:

Khalid Moammer: Old hardware author who was notorious for making up BS rumor/leak articles and then got caught with changing his article after the fact. The guy had no ethics whatsoever, and would constantly make up BS claims without any backing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6bih5e/after_vs_before_wccftech_changes_articles_on_amd/
The fact that WCCFTech has a lot less BS articles today is largely due to this author being gone. Good riddance.

Usman Pirzada: To give him credit, I honestly think that he wants WCCFTech to be a reputable tech website. However, that dream is cut short largely due to his own ineptitude with respect to understanding the technical aspects of the industry. He loves writing editorials with controversial takes, the most recent being his article on how comparisons between Apple's M1 and modern x86 processors is "unfair": https://wccftech.com/why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-are-fundamentally-flawed-with-benchmarks/
The dude honestly does not understand a lot of technical aspects but he tries to. He's your typical armchair semiconductor analyst and he has a megaphone due to his position at WCCFTech, but ends up being corrected by the community and ends up getting butthurt by the community, including our own Andrei: He also wrote that article about Lisa Su considering a position with another company, which Lisa shot down almost immediately via Twitter, and he got a lot of flak for it, including death threats. My take: you play with fire, you best be prepare to get burned.

That leaves the last author, good ol' Hassan Mujtaba. If Usman was on the quality end of the quality vs quantity scale (generous take), then Hassan is definitely on the quantity side.

Most recently, what the heck was this BS article about? Does he have any standards as to what he'll publish? Clearly not. This article came out of nowhere, as if he just needed to hit a quota and just made it up on the spot to hit said quota.
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000...with-64-mb-l3-cache-moved-to-vertical-stacks/
It's such obvious BS but yet it gets posted. I could have made it up and sent it into WCCFTech and they wouldn't blink and eye before publishing. Oh wait, that's actually what happened one time:
Dude got caught just pushing out a fake rumor that someone made up. He literally does not learn his lesson. The guy literally has no QA/QC filter, will write an article about any rumor regardless of how unlikely it is.

Another thing I dispise: they'll literally publish rumors about an unreleased product yet have one of their authors doing a product review behind the scenes on the same exact product. I'm guessing they think it's okay to do so because they think as long as the leak comes from another website, it's okay for them to just report on the leak. I find this highly unethical. Like, you'll never see this anywhere else. If you have the actual product in your hands, that should not give you an excuse to propagate leaks just because someone leaked it before you published your formal review.

As for the comment section, yeah it's literally cancer. Why is it cancer? Because they won't moderate it. Why won't they moderate it? Because there's too much money to be had to having a toxic community that jumps from article to article to continue the flame war. It literally would hurt then financially to moderate their comment section. They claim to have one of the most commented tech websites as if it were a bragging right. I wonder why... Yeah, it's clearly obvious why. They simply make more money riling up the fanboys than to keep their comments section civil.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,331
5,282
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Can anyone with access to ChampSim simulator or smarter than me can update Chips and Cheese gaming/application performance gains with the currently know 3-4 cycle


1644350140311.png

1644350737945.png
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,506
7,765
136
It's 2022, AMD announces the 5800X3D the gaming King processor at $449 and a very good gaming line up(5600 for under $200) that will work on budget AM3 MB during a Pandemic, Chip Shortages, Miners and people still go out of their way to complain about the price?
For what it's worth, the price can't be looked at in a vacuum. In 2017, the equivalent Intel offering was $1000. Meanwhile, Intel has very compelling offerings today, on both price and gaming performance. People just moan about AMD's price because of a few reasons: 1) People still see AMD as the company that gives them a budget-friendly, bang-for-buck option, and when that's no longer the case they whine and moan, and 2) While you can get a lot of performance for the same absolute dollar amount today than 5 years ago, the pandemic and "inflation" has hurt people's pockets and disposable income far more.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,647
5,355
136
Who complains about the cost of CPU's these days? You can get reasonable priced CPU in every segment, but obviously the top processors are never those where you find the most value, and it never has been. The cost of a CPU fit for a gaming rig has if anything decreased over time, as the video cards are what limits your fps in gaming in most cases. For a modern gaming computer the cost of the video card is likely to be far greater than the CPU.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
26,098
15,223
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I think we should go silent and start

That's when the old AMD we knew and love died. The new AMD overpromises and underdelivers several months late with caveats. They can do better but they won't. They have gotten complacent. Zen 3 was a huge leap for them and for x86 and they should have continued their winning streak and responded to Alder Lake with a death blow from Zen 4. Sadly, they were too busy trying to build up their V-cache CPU inventory.
You mean Milan-X ? Can you blame them ? by making every server CPU possible (they are all sold, more than they can make), they are getting market share. And in the most lucrative CPU market. DIY is nothing in size and profit compared to the server market. And that's where 5800X3D came from, copying Milan-X. If we want AMD to comtinue to push Intel, and CPU's in general, they have to get market share to push Intel. Hurt them where it counts, in their ledger.
 

Karnak

Senior member
Jan 5, 2017
399
767
136
He only looks at those data points that are in favour of his narrative that the '5800X3D is the gaming king'. It's not
Depends entirely on the games and benchmark suite. You can test 10 games where the 5800X3D is only like 5% faster than the 5800X because in those specific games more cache doesn't matter a lot. But most sites I'am looking at, the 5800X3D is as fast or a bit faster than the fastet product Intel has to offer right now.

And to add something: What I care about is how fast a product is within it's official specifications. Cause everything else is OC and it's not guaranteed that RAM X at speed Y will work for everyone. Not to mention perf/$. That's another topic we don't want to talk about because it ends really bad for Intel.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,086
6,699
136
What we need is a complete test suite with LOWs.
I think that his is even more important to know.


I think with a large enough pool of games the 5800X3D would win on average. There are probably enough titles like Factorio where it's stupidly far ahead of everything else which will drag it past anything else.
 

ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
2,058
671
136
Do you have fTPM disabled in bios as well as AMD PSP 11.0 Device disabled through Device Manager? If not you need to do both to get rid of system stutter caused by fTPM and AMD PSP.. IF that's what's causing it.

Update. fTPM was enabled by default. Followed this article to disable it:

Looking inside device manager, I do see the Security Devices section containing AMD PSP 11.0. I just disabled it.

Re-running the Siege benchmark isn't exactly a fair test because I didn't have XMP enabled and was GPU limited at 1080p. Either way, I don't feel the stutters that I did when I ran it before. Thanks so much for the tip! This game is putting nearly 100% load across all cores.

siege2.jpg
 

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,243
3,915
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Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6ghz and ~7200MT/s

vs
Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:
  • 5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
  • 12900k @ 5750mhz 4300MT/s CL14 = 373fps average cpu game
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game

Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:
  • 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
  • 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 321fps average cpu game
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game

F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:
  • 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps

Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:
  • 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
  • 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 203 average fps
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps

Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low
  • 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
  • 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 304 average fps
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps

Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
  • 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
  • 12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 23585 score
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score

Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
  • 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
  • 12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 33891 score
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score

HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)
  • 12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
  • 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3 :)
...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for a nice "low-end gaming machine".

My old Spectre install was bloated at this point, so i made a new win10 install for the 5800x3d runs..
(earlier when i did the 5950x runs the spectre install were pretty slim)

And i have no control over the Alder Lake windows installs, but those runs are cherry picked super golden samples with the highest scores i could find.. (binned cores+binned IMC+super cooling+best of the best memory) But feel free to improve the AL numbers if anyone can, maybe @JoeRambo ?)

For this to be a even more fair comparison of "maxed out gaming systems" i would need a new motherboard with an external clockgen so i could run the 5800x3d at ~4900mhz instead of 4450mhz, but i dont think that would change the outcome much in the end either.. Alder Lake should still come out on top.

*edit*
Added some Alder Lake screenshots
1651737445135.png1651737460804.png1651737473619.png1651737485990.png
 
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ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
2,058
671
136
On a whim I just tried downloading one of the Ryzen Custom Power Plans hosted on overclock.net:

Downloaded the Balanced LowPower v8 plan (was using Balanced vast majority of time before this).

powerplan.jpg

And within a couple minutes, HWiNFO is showing 4550 Mhz hit on a core. Very interesting!
4550.jpg

Seeing lower idle minimum clocks to boot. There may be a better power plan in that thread I linked, but I'm happy I made some progress!
 

Joe NYC

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2021
2,470
3,352
106
Anyone here with 58003d and sins of a solar empire rebellion game? That one is heavily CPU-limited, and happens to be my favourite (or one of the favourites for sure) and i wonder whether the additional cache has any bearing on the performance.

Similar request - if anyone is playing Europe Universalis 4 with M+T mod.

The end of year processing is single core limited and really takes a while, even on 5800x. And in my opinion, the game should benefit significantly from large L3 of 5800x3d...

If anyone tried...
 

ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
2,058
671
136
Risk of Rain 2 was on sale so we all bought it for eachother in my gaming group. Hosting the game puts more load on the host machine, so I am always the host. Using some modifiers, we can spawn an insane amount of AI!

Despite being a client, a 9700k is getting less than half the framerate and a 5800x is getting around 30-40%% lower framerate. Gonna be able to play with a 7950x friend to test soon I hope.

The performance gap is so large that I need my friends to upgrade if we wanna play with max AI count.
 

ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
2,058
671
136
The drop in temps seems too much for a simple 30mV undervolt. Could it be that the resulting vcore is even lower due to a change in motherboard voltage control?

On some Intel boards there was a big difference between "Auto" voltage settings and "Adaptive" or Adaptive + Offset. In the past I got used to setup a 5-10mV undervolt by default just to make sure the board wasn't pushing unnecessary voltage, on one occasion this shaved as much as 50-60mV at peak turbo clocks.

I made the mistake of assuming -30 meant -30mV. It is actually -30 steps which lowers voltage way more than -30mV.

I posted a few times saying mV when it came to undervolting this CPU.
 
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lixlax

Member
Nov 6, 2014
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I was expecting 3D stacked chips to first start appearing in some super expensive server solutions, but it seems to be client first.
Further 10%+ on gaming perf will be impressive, but I expect only a small number of other apps on the client side to actually benefit from this.
This+DDR5 could make APU graphics perfomance skyrocket though...exciting times ahead.