$61K for a Volt...

[LTC8K6]

Dealers going to gouge?

http://www.dailytech.com/Some+Chevy...After+Markup+GM+Defends+MSRP/article19256.htm

A reporter from Edmunds inquired at a local dealership about the price of the 2011 Chevy Volt electric vehicle and was told that they were going to be charging $61,000 USD for the vehicle ($52,750 after tax credit). That price includes a $20,000 USD markup going directly into the dealer's pocket.

Of course, even at $31.5K after rebates, the Volt makes no economic sense at all, with good economical cars available for much less money. And better ones coming like the new Focus and Cruze.

 

[Tristicus]

We get it, you don't like the goddamn Volt.

 

[MotF Bane]

We get it, the Volt is hugely overpriced.

 

[StageLeft]

With the gas you save it's still worth it at $61.5k.

 

[LTC8K6]

We get it, you don't like the goddamn Volt.

Calm down there. I can't stop the Volt all by myself. So quit worrying. It will be for sale soon.

Why don't you explain to me why I should pay $31.5K for the Volt over another well equipped economical car which will be much cheaper?

I have nothing against the Volt per se. I just can't see any economic sense in buying it.

That didn't bother the Prius, though.

 

[PricklyPete]

It doesn't make any sense...because no one would buy then. If GM is offering a 2500 down, $350 a month lease...why the hell would you buy it with that kind of mark up. This doesn't seem practical.

The whole dealer model sucks balls.

 

[LTC8K6]

With the gas you save it's still worth it at $61.5k.

Let's see some numbers on that.

A Cruze or Focus is going to get pretty good city and highway mileage, and it looks like the Volt is at least $10K more.

So you need to make up at least $10K, I think.

We'll leave out the cost of installing a 220V outlet for it, and just assume we are okay with the slower 120V charging at home.

 

[PricklyPete]

I have nothing against the Volt per se. I just can't see any economic sense in buying it.

The issue is that you are trying to make economic sense of this vehicle. It is an engineering proof of concept. Not unlike the Bugatti Veyron...just with very different roles (and not so ridiculous). GM set out to make a new type of hybrid that allowed people to potentially go gas free, but with the option to extend your range at will. This generation is not meant to make economical sense...just like the PRIUS has struggled to make economic sense even in its 3rd generation...but the tech has to start somewhere. Overtime the technology will get cheaper eventually will make it into cars that make sense.

And everyone who says that the Volt is just a Cruze with a different drivetrain...that's just not true. There is a whole level of additional kit in the Volt.

My question to you is why do you think that a car who's purpose is to go fast doesn't have to make economic sense...but a car designed to completely end the usage of gasoline for some and minimize it for most has to make economical sense? This is a halo car from GM to give it some "green cred". It is not meant to be the end-all-be-all for economically minded drivers. The Ford Fiestas/Nissan Versa's are still produced for these people.

 

[LTC8K6]

What are you talking about?

It needs to make economic sense for a lot of people to buy it...

Not the wealthy trendy folks, they will buy a few for sure, but the lower income folks who would be buying it so they don't have to pay a large fuel bill.

 

[zsdersw]

The first of its kind, no matter what the product is, will always be highly criticized and derided, and always in the same fashion: pointing out existing alternatives, emphasizing the initial costs, and highlighting the negatives while simultaneously ignoring the positives.

Naysayers are always the first to arrive, but often don't get the last laugh.

I'm not saying anything negative about the Volt isn't a negative. What I am saying, though, is that denying the positives or not recognizing the value in the idea and concepts it represents is foolish and backward.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Volt fits me perfectly, actually. My drive to work is under 10 miles round trip. For me, the Volt would never need gasoline.

I like the car and would buy one if it made sense for me to.

 

[PricklyPete]

What are you talking about?

It needs to make economic sense for a lot of people to buy it...

No it doesn't...a ton of people buy the Prius and it still doesn't make economic sense for 90% of the people who purchase it. This is a halo car...and it is going to be built in small numbers. It is not meant to carry the company...it is meant to promote the company. GM is losing money on each one of these because it is an engineering exercise for future innovation.

Do you think VW makes money on the Bugatti Veyron? Not a chance.

 

[StageLeft]

What are you talking about?

It needs to make economic sense for a lot of people to buy it...

A lot, but not all, so many will buy it. Like with exotics, the most expensive is not always the fastest, but you buy it for other reasons, same with the volt.

I was joking about 61.5k, it can't make sense at MSRP economically.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Let's see some numbers on that.

A Cruze or Focus is going to get pretty good city and highway mileage, and it looks like the Volt is at least $10K more.

So you need to make up at least $10K, I think.

We'll leave out the cost of installing a 220V outlet for it, and just assume we are okay with the slower 120V charging at home.

Once again, GM makes what people want. An electric vehicle with no pollutants. But when people see the price tag, all of a sudden, they don't seem to care as much about the environment.
Typical.
Toyota was loosing money on every Prius sold when they 1st came out. GM can't afford to looses that much money so they are mitigating their loses with a higher selling price. The dealer marking it up $20K isn't GM's fault.

 

[zsdersw]

In its day the very first automobile probably didn't make a whole lot of economic sense either.. but here we are today, driving its descendants.

 

[LTC8K6]

An electric vehicle with no pollutants.

Oh come on...of course there are plenty of pollutants.

The Prius doesn't cost anywhere near the Volt, does it? $22.8K and better FE than the Volt when using gasoline.

 

[ElFenix]

 

[JTsyo]

Something like the Volt would work for my commute, 25 miles round trip. But I think I'll hold out for the third generation or so.

 

[LTC8K6]

It would be good for me, and I need a new second car to replace my 1995 Taurus. A smaller car would offset my hemi Grand Cherokee well too. The Jeep is an 08 and will soon be paid off.

I just can't justify purchasing the Volt at all. Leasing or buying.

I don't have the money to make a statement with a car purchase, although I can easily afford the Volt.

I will be looking at new cars soon.

 

[PricklyPete]

It would be good for me, and I need a new second car to replace my 1995 Taurus. A smaller car would offset my hemi Grand Cherokee well too. The Jeep is an 08 and will soon be paid off.

I just can't justify purchasing the Volt at all. Leasing or buying.

I don't have the money to make a statement with a car purchase, although I can easily afford the Volt.

I will be looking at new cars soon.

Clearly this car is not for you then. A Ford Fiesta or Chevy Cruze sound like much better options for you.

 

[speedy2]

Typical GM stigma. If this was a Toyota or Honda product this thread would be full of praise.

For what the Volt is, it's a great car. Like PricklyPete said, it's not going to make sense economically like a 4 banger Civic. It's just not. Same as the Veyron. They are making something that will pave the way for the future. Geeze, even the Smart cars got less crap than this, and those are really "out there."

 

[LTC8K6]

I think if the subsidy went only to lower income folks who weren't buying to make a trendy fashion statement, it might go down a little better.

Maybe heavily subsidizing what is ultimately a fashion statement is what bothers me?

Then again, maybe we will have $5 a gallon gas soon?

 

[PricklyPete]

I think if the subsidy went only to lower income folks who weren't buying to make a trendy fashion statement, it might go down a little better.

Maybe heavily subsidizing what is ultimately a fashion statement is what bothers me?

Then again, maybe we will have $5 a gallon gas soon?

Subsidies suck for just about anything..whether it is Corn subsidies, Home buyer tax credits, or this stuff...but why get pissed at GM for that? Why is the Volt/GM bother you so much? The same credit will go for the Nissan Leaf. Were you getting pissy at Toyota when people were get tax credits for the Prius?

 

[LTC8K6]

Subsidies suck for just about anything..whether it is Corn subsidies, Home buyer tax credits, or this stuff...but why get pissed at GM for that? Why is the Volt/GM bother you so much? The same credit will go for the Nissan Leaf. Were you getting pissy at Toyota when people were get tax credits for the Prius?

Who's pissed at GM? Or at all? I certainly haven't given any indication of being pissed at anything in this thread. Nor have I said anything bothered me about the Volt, other than the economics of purchasing it.

The article I posted has to do with dealers gouging, not GM.

I have found some calculations on the net regarding the economics of the Volt versus other cars, and it looks like we'd have to have $5 a gallon fuel to break even with a Prius after 10 years of ownership. $4 for a regular car like a Cruze.

There is also the near certain hikes in future electricity rates to consider. Cap and trade, etc.

 

[StageLeft]

It would be good for me, and I need a new second car to replace my 1995 Taurus. A smaller car would offset my hemi Grand Cherokee well too. The Jeep is an 08 and will soon be paid off.

I just can't justify purchasing the Volt at all. Leasing or buying.

I don't have the money to make a statement with a car purchase, although I can easily afford the Volt.

I will be looking at new cars soon.

You keep saying the same thing. We know economically it does not make sense. Nobody has tried arguing it does.

Geeze, even the Smart cars got less crap than this, and those are really "out there."

Not fro me. I have truly nothing good to say about those cars, they exist only by the stupidity of those who purchase them. They are horrific vehicles and serve no good purpose at all, neither here or there. I do not like them in a house. I do not like them with a mouse. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere.

I think if the subsidy went only to lower income folks who weren't buying to make a trendy fashion statement, it might go down a little better.

Joke? A poor person should be driving a new car that we already know does not make economic sense and it should be subsidized by gov?

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Anyway I'm really interested in seeing how the Leaf does (@ rebated price obviously). Our family could actually tolerate a 100 mile/day car. I read yesterday that if gas is around $2.80 or so you're looking at, for a reasonably good car, $.10/mile but an electric is about $.03. That means you could save $2500 every three years. If you keep the car for 6 you've saved $5k and it starts getting pretty attractive. Probably _similar_ in cost to a Versa, but does have that intangible quality of having a revolutionary vehicle, which some are willing ot pay for. I think there is a strong chance these electric powertrains are more robust than ICE ones (initially they may suck worse, though). Plus /\/1554/\/ 43\/4