60v battery operated tools. Talk me out of this.

[Greenman]

I generally think of battery operated tools as being very small and portable. DeWalt just came out with a 12" battery operated compound miter saw and a table saw. Both use 60v battery's, the table saw uses 2.
I don't need a fifth miter saw, and I don't need a second table saw, but they're both shiny, really shiny, and someday I might have a use for one of them. So I should probably just buy them now so I'll have them when the need arises.

I do so love new tools.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Battery operated table saw or mitre seems odd, I could see it maybe for a contractor that moves it around a lot, you can just bring it to a job site plop it down and start working. If you don't find yourself in situations where those tools need to be powered in places that don't have an outlet it's probably not really worthwhile to have a battery operated one. You still have to charge that battery, and batteries go bad over time if not used etc..

Sounds interesting nonetheless though... Do you have a cottage or camp, I could see it useful there. Then charge it off a small solar setup.

 

[Greenman]

I am a contractor, and here in CA it's rare to more than 20' from an outlet no matter where you are.
I already have the DeWalt 7 1/4" battery slide saw, it's a sweet little tool. But I have to wonder how well that table saw battery holds up when I start pushing 2x material through it.

 

[natto fire]

As an electrician, I say go for it. The job I have been on lately has been a lot of carpenters crying about temp power, and then being surprised when the 20 amp circuit I provide trips when they are trying to run an air compressor, a chop saw, and a microwave at the same time. Much better to be independent of the asshole electrician instead of whining to him, IMO.

One funny thing from work is when I was wearing a head lamp on my hard hat. The HVAC guy said "oh crap, the electrician is wearing a head lamp, this is going to be a bad job"

 

[Greenman]

As an electrician, I say go for it. The job I have been on lately has been a lot of carpenters crying about temp power, and then being surprised when the 20 amp circuit I provide trips when they are trying to run an air compressor, a chop saw, and a microwave at the same time. Much better to be independent of the asshole electrician instead of whining to him, IMO.

One funny thing from work is when I was wearing a head lamp on my hard hat. The HVAC guy said "oh crap, the electrician is wearing a head lamp, this is going to be a bad job"

Obviously you don't know how to wire a 20 amp circuit. It should be able to take any load we choose to put on it. Carpenters love Federal Pacific breakers. ()

 

[Subyman]

I don't know much about the 60V tools but I'd be worried about battery life on a table saw. Ripping boards is a ton of load. A chop saw would probably be nice. Plop it down anywhere and get to work. No need to mess with cords.

 

[Greenman]

I don't know much about the 60V tools but I'd be worried about battery life on a table saw. Ripping boards is a ton of load. A chop saw would probably be nice. Plop it down anywhere and get to work. No need to mess with cords.

The 71/4" slider is a dream. Light, accurate, very portable, and makes a lot of cuts on a single charge. It's also nice that it doesn't slow down when the battery runs out, at some preset voltage the saw simply won't start.

 

[natto fire]

Obviously you don't know how to wire a 20 amp circuit. It should be able to take any load we choose to put on it. Carpenters love Federal Pacific breakers. ()

True enough. A 12 AWG wire makes for a very good fuse in the FPE scenario. No pesky magnetic trip to get in the way.

Oh, and do these tools use a new style battery pack, or are they 3 of the existing "20v" packs in series?

 

[Greenman]

It's a 60v pack, 9 amp hours I think. The table saw runs a pair at a time producing 120 volts.

 

[Subyman]

Looked up the specs on the table saw. Spec sheet seems optimistic. Says 300 linear feet of 3/4 OSB. That'd be close to 40 rip cuts down the length of a standard sheet. Probably enough to get pretty far sheathing a modestly sized house. Certainly enough for standard projects like repairing subfloors or ripping exterior trim.

What I really like is that the batteries seem to be able to be used on their 20V drills and other power tools. The voltage automatically adjusts depending on the tool. Really neat. I have their 20V impact drill and normal drill that I use all the time. Would be great to get one of those huge batteries that would work across all the tools.

Hmmm.... I could see getting the chop saw and circular saw.

EDIT: Found some pricing. Pricey stuff! I think I'd rather buy Hilti tools for those prices.

 

[Greenman]

Looked up the specs on the table saw. Spec sheet seems optimistic. Says 300 linear feet of 3/4 OSB. That'd be close to 40 rip cuts down the length of a standard sheet. Probably enough to get pretty far sheathing a modestly sized house. Certainly enough for standard projects like repairing subfloors or ripping exterior trim.

What I really like is that the batteries seem to be able to be used on their 20V drills and other power tools. The voltage automatically adjusts depending on the tool. Really neat. I have their 20V impact drill and normal drill that I use all the time. Would be great to get one of those huge batteries that would work across all the tools.

Hmmm.... I could see getting the chop saw and circular saw.

EDIT: Found some pricing. Pricey stuff! I think I'd rather buy Hilti tools for those prices.

I never use a table saw for sheathing or sub floor, benches and a skill saw are far more efficient. Table saw is mostly for ripping trim or firing, both interior and exterior.

I didn't know the battery's worked in 20v tools, that's a huge plus, as long they don't weigh ten pounds.

Edit: Just looked at the 60v saw, it's left handed, total deal breaker for me. I don't know when or why the world decided that power saws will be left handed, but it just doesn't work for me.
The table saw is only $500, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Bull Dog]

It's a 60v pack, 9 amp hours I think. The table saw runs a pair at a time producing 120 volts.

DeWalt's 20v MAX malarkey has always made shy away from their tools. The 20v number is a sham and it makes calculating Wh capacity harder than it needs to be.

Traditionally battery voltage has always been advertised at the cell's nominal voltage. A good example of this would be NiMH batteries. They are universally advertised as 1.2 volt batteries. In actuality the voltage of NiMH cells fluctuate greatly.

From my own personal experience I have seen voltage as high as 1.5v during the end of a charge cycle. I have seen fully charged resting voltage around 1.4v and a mid cycle resting voltage in the 1.3v range.

Lithium-ion batteries typically have a nominal voltage of 3.6 volts with some being advertised as 3.7 as well. For simplicity's sake lets just stick with the 3.6v number for now.

The small 20v MAX battery packs DeWalt sells contain five lithium-ion batteries in series. The larger packs contain additional groups of five networked together.

Given a nominal voltage of 3.6v/cell: 5 x 3.6v = 18 volts.

Lithium-ion batteries can be charged up to 4.2v/cell. A fully charged cell at rest will eventually settle to 3.7-3.9 volts/cell.

So yes, a string of five lithium batteries at some point will give you 20v across the terminals.....but quoting 20v is pointless and pure marketing nonsense.

Lastly and the reason why I started to wright this is the first place. DeWalt's new battery packs are going to be 9AH at "20"(actually 18) volts

When the battery is configured to output "60" (54) volts capacity should drop to 3AH. The real metric to look at is watt-hour (Wh) capacity. Both ways you slice it, this is a mammoth 162 Wh battery.

 

[Greenman]

I couldn't possibly care less about the actual voltage of the battery as long as the tool performs as advertised. I own a few tools in the alleged 20v system and I'm very happy with them. If the 60v system turns out to only be 40v but provides high torque and long run time, I'll forgive DeWalt for deceiving me.

I get what your saying, the specs should be accurate, but they also need to have a way of marketing each line of tools. 20v sounds better than 18v plus.

 

[shabby]

Whats the point of upping the voltage in cordless tools? Pros/cons or just marketing again from dewalt?

 

[skyking]

everything is reduced with higher voltage, lower weight motors, conductors. OF course this does not pan out as they will make the motor more powerful, but if you are talking appples and apples, a higher voltage scenario will be lighter.

 

[DrPizza]

Why not go 120 volts and get one of those really quiet, small portable generators?

 

[Greenman]

Why not go 120 volts and get one of those really quiet, small portable generators?

Convenience. That's really the only reason for most battery powered tools. Set it up and cut, no cords laying all over the place, no tripped breakers because the stupid electrician can't make a 20 amp breaker run 4 15 amp tools at the same time.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Why not go 120 volts and get one of those really quiet, small portable generators?

Yeah that's probably what I would do. That way any tool should work and you're not relying on a proprietary battery system that may be hard to get replacements for years down the line.

If generator is not an option a beefy inverter-charger + battery may be. Could make a portable "power pack" that is basically a box with a marine battery and the inverter and a bunch of plugs on the front. Can probably get away with square wave output for power tools too. (most inverters are, the pure sine ones in the multi kw range will be expensive)

 

[Greenman]

Yeah that's probably what I would do. That way any tool should work and you're not relying on a proprietary battery system that may be hard to get replacements for years down the line.

If generator is not an option a beefy inverter-charger + battery may be. Could make a portable "power pack" that is basically a box with a marine battery and the inverter and a bunch of plugs on the front. Can probably get away with square wave output for power tools too. (most inverters are, the pure sine ones in the multi kw range will be expensive)

You're missing the point. It's about having your tool ready to go right now. A generator isn't as convenient as an extension cord.

I have a project going right now that requires the use of a generator, it's a pain in the ass.

 

[DrPizza]

I kind of understand what you're saying about convenience - I certainly wouldn't want to have to run cords all over for corded drills, etc. - tools you're going all over the place with. But it seems a saw like that would be pretty stationary on the job. For such a tool, it seems the inconvenience of getting out the generator and plugging in the saw sort of matches the inconvenience at the other end when you have to recharge the battery.

Hmmm. Damn. I wish patents weren't so expensive to get. Brilliant idea here. Sending you a PM

 

[NetWareHead]

I can see the convenience luxury of having such a saw (really, all battery tools) depends on the size of projects where it's used. In and out jobs, the convenience is appreciated. But for longer term, you are still going to need AC or generator power on site to recharge everyone's tools. Or you lug all of your batteries out of the truck when home and charge them overnight, then pack them all up next morning.

I've renovated a few places and always ad-hoc wired a few outlets. In my recent project, we rewired the entire place but created 3 twenty amp circuits out of old outlets, boxes and recycled cable. Enough to have an air compressor, tile saw, etc... plus charging a few battery packs.

Not having AC power throws a real wrench into this. Expense of battery tools vs a generator.

 

[Subyman]

I never use a table saw for sheathing or sub floor, benches and a skill saw are far more efficient. Table saw is mostly for ripping trim or firing, both interior and exterior.

I didn't know the battery's worked in 20v tools, that's a huge plus, as long they don't weigh ten pounds.

Edit: Just looked at the 60v saw, it's left handed, total deal breaker for me. I don't know when or why the world decided that power saws will be left handed, but it just doesn't work for me.
The table saw is only $500, that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I was talking about their other tools. Like the reciprocating saw at $300 or the drill set for $380. Starting to get up to Hilti prices.

It does help that I already have some Dewalt tools that would use those batteries though... :thumbsup:

 

[Subyman]

I kind of understand what you're saying about convenience - I certainly wouldn't want to have to run cords all over for corded drills, etc. - tools you're going all over the place with. But it seems a saw like that would be pretty stationary on the job. For such a tool, it seems the inconvenience of getting out the generator and plugging in the saw sort of matches the inconvenience at the other end when you have to recharge the battery.

Hmmm. Damn. I wish patents weren't so expensive to get. Brilliant idea here. Sending you a PM

EDIT: OOPS! I see you weren't talking about drills haha. Sorry about that. I'm kind of with you about the table saw on batteries. I can see situations where the chop saw would be useful like small jobs, but its a hard sell for me.

 

[Greenman]

EDIT: OOPS! I see you weren't talking about drills haha. Sorry about that. I'm kind of with you about the table saw on batteries. I can see situations where the chop saw would be useful like small jobs, but its a hard sell for me.

You just need to get serious about tools. New tools are shiny, and they have that new tool smell, sometimes they even work better than old tools, but that's just a bonus.
I'm a tool junkie, I'm always searching for my next fix. The tragedy is that I've pretty much run out of places to put them. If I buy many more I'm going to have to sell my V-Rod, and I'm not emotionally prepared to do that.

 

[Subyman]

You just need to get serious about tools. New tools are shiny, and they have that new tool smell, sometimes they even work better than old tools, but that's just a bonus.
I'm a tool junkie, I'm always searching for my next fix. The tragedy is that I've pretty much run out of places to put them. If I buy many more I'm going to have to sell my V-Rod, and I'm not emotionally prepared to do that.

Oh I like shiny new tools too. I've had my eye on the hydraulic pulse drill from Ridgid. That thing looks neat. Supposed to be really well made too.

http://m.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-STEALTH-FORCE-Brushless-18-Volt-Hyper-Lithium-Ion-1-4-in-Cordless-Pulse-Driver-Kit-R86036K/206596563