60Hz motor on a 50Hz country......

[SniperXP]

Hi All,

I have a technical question to technical people around this forum. I have a EHEIM 1048 water pump which is 110 volts AC, 60Hz. I am in a country where they use 240 Volts, 50Hz. I have a stepdown transformer to get the 110 volts but I don't know what's going to happen to my water pump that is 60Hz if I plug it. I don't want to try until I get some technical advise from people in this forum. What do you think guys what's going to happen? Has anyone tried this before?

 

[Slomover2001]

SniperXP,

When I was stationed in West Germany (that tells you how long ago it was) we routinely ran 110 V equipment on 110V transformers. Electric motors run slower at 50Hz than 60 Hz so you can expect your pump to have lowered output. We (GIs) also noted the motors had a shortened life span, so your pump might burn out earlier than expected. This advise is not technical, but it is real world.

Hope this helps.

Gordon

 

[SniperXP]

Gordon,

Thanks for the real world advise. I think I have to buy a suitable EHEIM pump for this country.

TNX,

Max

 

[Confused]

I'm guessing you're in the UK?

If so, and you find a good place to find an EHEIM pump, let me know! I want one for my watercooling project

Confused

 

[farmercal]

I am in the USAF and presently stationed in Baumholder, GE. The housing unit I live in has both 230 and 110 but only 50 Hz. I have my computer, monitor, printer, scanner (all set for 110/60) plugged in the outlet with no noticeble change in operation. In fact when we got here they briefed us that appliances that are geared to run at 60 Hz will operate just fine on the lower cycles. The only problem we have here is with clocks, they seem to lose time due to the lower cycles. I really don't think you have anything to worry about, just don't plug a 110 product into a 220 outlet (smoked a brand new vacuum FAST!).

 

[Mingon]

If you UK based try Aquacadabra in bexleyheath they are very cheap. If you need a phone no. PM me.

 

[SniperXP]

Computers doesn't mind the 50Hz because it uses a switching power supply and all the motors like the hdd, fdd are using DC current. Have you tried using your 60Hz blender or shaver for that instance in a 50Hz line? You will notice some difference in the speed and noise, maybe. I brought my MAC from the states and for 6 years that I've been here I didn't had any problem upto now. My question is about motors. All I know for sure is that if you buy a 50Hz drill for instance and use it in a 60Hz country, your drill will not last for another week or months.

 

[dkozloski]

If the appliance has a universal (AC or DC) motor like a razor, blender, mixer, drill, Dremel tool; all brush equipped motors, and the like, it could care less what the frequency of the AC current is. The exception would come if you were dealing with military 400 cycle stuff because of hysteresis issues. An AC induction motor that would normally turn 3600 RPM on 60 cycle power would run at 3000 RPM on 50 cycle; 1800 RPM down to 1500RPM etc. in the same ratio. This would explain your clock running slow in Europe. If speed is important you sometimes find that gear ratios or pulley sizes are jockeyed to compensate. Any competent electrician can explain to you about the speed of motors as it relates to the number of poles in the motor and the frequency of the current. Also synchronous speeds and slippage in induction motors. The bottom line is that the average appliance will hum along nicely on either 50 or 60 cycle power and in this age of global trade a manufacturer would be foolish to limit his customer base to one region with inflexible design. Non-rotating electrical equipment is even easier to design for 50/60 cycle use as the only requirement is the addition of slightly more robust filtering for the lower frequency current due to impedance issues.

 

[FrustratedUser]

It will run slower. That's it.

 

[SniperXP]

Thanks guys for all your input. I have decided though to go ahead and purchase a suitable waterpump, a 240Vac/50Hz for my watercooling.

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

Originally posted by: dkozloski
If the appliance has a universal (AC or DC) motor like a razor, blender, mixer, drill, Dremel tool; all brush equipped motors, and the like, it could care less what the frequency of the AC current is. The exception would come if you were dealing with military 400 cycle stuff because of hysteresis issues. An AC induction motor that would normally turn 3600 RPM on 60 cycle power would run at 3000 RPM on 50 cycle; 1800 RPM down to 1500RPM etc. in the same ratio. This would explain your clock running slow in Europe. If speed is important you sometimes find that gear ratios or pulley sizes are jockeyed to compensate. Any competent electrician can explain to you about the speed of motors as it relates to the number of poles in the motor and the frequency of the current. Also synchronous speeds and slippage in induction motors. The bottom line is that the average appliance will hum along nicely on either 50 or 60 cycle power and in this age of global trade a manufacturer would be foolish to limit his customer base to one region with inflexible design. Non-rotating electrical equipment is even easier to design for 50/60 cycle use as the only requirement is the addition of slightly more robust filtering for the lower frequency current due to impedance issues.

What is it with some military stuff using 400hz anyway?

 

[dkozloski]

Standard power for aircraft, electronics, and other military stuff is 440Volts 400cycle because it is possible to make transformers, motors, and power supplies lighter because of the higher impedance of reactive components at 400cycles and the wiring can be smaller and lighter and still handle the required power because of the higher voltage. If the cooling fans in your home computers bother you, try being in a whole room full of those screaming 400cycle babies.

 

[Bovinicus]

Most likely it won't hurt to at least try it out. Of course, do so at your own risk. =)

 

[PowerEngineer]

Happy to confirm that most of what's been said is correct.

The trade-off on frequency is that hysteresis losses in the iron cores of transformers and motors go up as frequency rises, however the amount of iron needed in the transformer or motor to avoid undesireable magnetic saturation also drops as frequency rises. This generally means that (properly designed) 50 Hz equipment is slightly more efficient (and heavier) than its 60 Hz counterparts, and the 50 Hz equipment should be relatively happy running at 60 Hz. On the other hand, 60 Hz devices will tend to saturate their cores to a greater extent when operating at 50 Hz. Saturation can greatly increase the current flowing in the device, which means there's more heating that can shorten the life of the device.

Appliances like TVs and computers aren't likely to be greatly affected as this only affects the power supply transformer. It's a much bigger deal for AC electric motors. The vast majority of these are "squirrel cage" motors designed to run at a speed just below some mutiple of the electrical supply frequency. This means that a 60 Hz motor will definitely run much slower (at least 17% slower) on a 50 Hz system. And of course the reverse is true for a 50 Hz motor at 60 Hz. And because higher frequencies require less iron for transformers and motors, it makes a lot of sense for airplane manufacturers to go all the way to 400 Hz.

 

[SniperXP]

This thread is really very insteresting. I was amazed with the response that I got from all of you. Different ideas and the fact that they are all true in the sense. I have learned a lot of information regarding motors, and terms that I haven't come across. Once again, guys, thanks a lot for your contribution on this thread.