60GHz Wireless alliance coming. May cause trouble for some

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,363
475
126
Aren't alliances like this formed and dissolved all the time? Besides it seems these devices are years away.

Who knows, maybe Sony's proprietary 60GHz wireless HD may become the standard.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Aren't alliances like this formed and dissolved all the time? Besides it seems these devices are years away.

Who knows, maybe Sony's proprietary 60GHz wireless HD may become the standard.

But you keep televisions for years. So if this shit becomes a standard, owners of these tv will be royally screwed.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
"Come, boy, see for yourself. From here, you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance and the end of your insignificant rebellion."
 

sswingle

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
7,183
45
91
I'm sure there will still be different channels like current wifi does, to keep different access points and devices from interfering with each other.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
But you keep televisions for years. So if this shit becomes a standard, owners of these tv will be royally screwed.

Not a problem. Your microwave operates at the same band as wireless. Your neighbor's wireless operates on the same band as your wireless. But that doesn't stop the wireless, you can't break free, because they are made of metal and robots are strong.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I'm sure there will still be different channels like current wifi does, to keep different access points and devices from interfering with each other.

Video needs the broadband aspect and normally uses spread spectrum technology, so not really. Wireless video is notorious for using the entire spectrum because it needs it.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,117
766
126
I thought 60GHZ signals attenuated too fast to make signal overlap a big problem.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Video needs the broadband aspect and normally uses spread spectrum technology, so not really. Wireless video is notorious for using the entire spectrum because it needs it.

Sometimes I think you're just using words you've heard, and you don't know what they mean.

But you keep televisions for years. So if this shit becomes a standard, owners of these tv will be royally screwed.

The FCC controls access to the spectrum. If Sony had an exclusive license to that band, no one else would be able to use it. Sony obviously doesn't have an exclusive license, so Sony is aware that other companies can use it. It's unlicensed spectrum, just like what you use for your cordless phones and wifi.
 
Last edited:

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Sometimes I think you're just using words you've heard, and you don't know what they mean.

You have no idea of my profession and how long I've been doing it. Fire up a spectrum analyzer on any wireless video in the 2.4 Ghz spectrum to see what it does. It rapes then entire spectrum.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
You have no idea of my profession and how long I've been doing it. Fire up a spectrum analyzer on any wireless video in the 2.4 Ghz spectrum to see what it does. It rapes then entire spectrum.

You're comparing a 100 MHz band to a 7 GHz band.

Edit: Or more accurately, you're using a 100 MHz band to make a point about a 7 GHz band.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
You're comparing a 100 MHz band to a 7 GHz band.

Edit: Or more accurately, you're using a 100 MHz band to make a point about a 7 GHz band.

Higher frequency needs more advanced modulation. Hence my comment about needing the broadband aspect. You know...broad....band.

Given the speeds they are boasting it's obvious it's using the entire spectrum and not just specific frequencies, that's my point. It won't penetrate much outside the home so it's a good application to use the entire spectrum to provide maximum performance because you don't really need to worry about interference from other users.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Higher frequency needs more advanced modulation. Hence my comment about needing the broadband aspect. You know...broad....band.

Given the speeds they are boasting it's obvious it's using the entire spectrum and not just specific frequencies, that's my point. It won't penetrate much outside the home so it's a good application to use the entire spectrum to provide maximum performance because you don't really need to worry about interference from other users.

Now you sound like you know what you're talking about. ;) The article says it'll offer 7 Gbps, and the band width is 7 GHz - are you saying that at 60 GHz they can't do better than one bit per symbol?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Now you sound like you know what you're talking about. ;) The article says it'll offer 7 Gbps, and the band width is 7 GHz - are you saying that at 60 GHz they can't do better than one bit per symbol?

I have no idea what symbol length they would be using. I actually don't know how wide the spectrum is. But 7gig at 60 Ghz is pretty impressive and I would "assume" they need a very wide band to do it if not the entire spectrum.

Are they framing this? I would have to assume so. Eitherway it would be an awesome home application. HD and multimedia everywhere, wirelessly, with enough performance to do it without problems.
 
Last edited:

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
Lots of BS thrown around in here:

Higher frequency needs more advanced modulation

Um why? Other than there is a LOT more room up at 60ghz so they don't need to be as careful. FM is still FM, and QPSK is still the same.

Fire up a spectrum analyzer on any wireless video in the 2.4 Ghz spectrum to see what it does. It rapes then entire spectrum.

No reason why it shouldn't the ISM band is damn big even at 2.4ghz. A typical TV signal is 6mhz - the ISM band at 2.4ghz is 50mhz wide, or 8 TV channels worth. Unlicensed use is unlicensed use. Why not be a hog?

At 60ghz (actually 61.25ghz) - its 5ghz wide!!!! It's nearly as wide as all utilized spectrum today.

I'm sure there will still be different channels like current wifi does, to keep different access points and devices from interfering with each other.

Current 802.11b/g wireless does that by choice. It's the ISM band. You can do pretty much whatever you want as long as your ERP remains below the limit. I on the other hand hold an FCC license for use in the lower portion of the ISM band, and am a primary user of that band, thus my 1500W magnetron waveguide trounces your 802.11 (until you switch to channel 10+.) Then I die quickly from the cancer or the melted brain.

Lets see - 1gbit over copper needs like 350mhz. Multiply by 7 and you are at 2.1ghz or so.

Looks like the 5ghz of ISM band available around 61.25 ghz is large enough for full duplex 7gbit. Thats enough for UNCOMPRESSED full HD.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,449
126
A rational technical conversation in ATOT? Can it be?

Wow... it's like I accidentally stepped into the highly technical or networking forum. :)
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Lots of BS thrown around in here:


Looks like the 5ghz of ISM band available around 61.25 ghz is large enough for full duplex 7gbit. Thats enough for UNCOMPRESSED full HD.

I had no idea it was that wide. 5Ghz!!!? This could indeed be promising for home use.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
A rational technical conversation in ATOT? Can it be?

Wow... it's like I accidentally stepped into the highly technical or networking forum. :)

Yeah, I actually enjoyed the conversation and I guess mugs is right. It was an unlicensed band and SONY used it first. I hope they join this group and make the necessary changes for those who bought their televisions, whether or not the chance of interference is minimal.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Yeah, I actually enjoyed the conversation and I guess mugs is right. It was an unlicensed band and SONY used it first. I hope they join this group and make the necessary changes for those who bought their televisions, whether or not the chance of interference is minimal.

Just wrap some foil around the TV and ground it. Problem solved.