6 dead shooter on loose in PA

[Sunburn74]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/6-dead-suspect-on-loose-in-suburban-philadelphia/ar-BBgQjQF

An emerging story but all too familiar. I have to say I think I can cite at least 10 times this year a similar occurrence in other states.

Here's another example just off the top of my head
http://www.click2houston.com/news/deputies-at-least-six-killed-in-shooting-in-spring-area/26871346

And another
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/30/chicago-nordstrom_n_6242618.html

I really could keep going

What can be done to prevent this sort of thing? Am I the only one growing weary of this country's increasingly perverse gun culture? Is the solution making requirements for gun ownership stricter? Or perhaps taking domestic abuse claims far more seriously? Maybe even make gun ownership a cyclical lottery of sorts where only a finite number of licenses are available at any time for which everyone is able to get one if selected in a random lottery held every 1-2 years.

 

[brandonb]

Not surprised that people are going to jump to the "omg guns!" as that is the easy scapegoat.

I'd say this is more of the reason for their dispute and these killings:

They recently sparred over custody of their two children, with Stone filing an emergency petition Dec. 5 and Nicole responding with a counterclaim Dec. 9, according to court records. The outcome of their dispute was not clear.

We all know that courts and the system is vastly biased towards the woman in any of these situations. We all know the results of these disputes would have been in her favor, no matter what type of guy this person was. I can totally see someone fly off the rocker when seeing the justice behind the rulings. A woman always wins in court against a man, much like a cop always wins.

The fact that the person had guns, which of course, he is 100% able to get and use per our constitution is not relevant. If he didn't have access to guns chances are he would have used a knife or baseball bat or anything else in front of him.

Before you jump in and say "But guns allows him to kill 6 people! Knife and baseball bat wouldn't allow him to do that!" Which is inevitable in these discussions: I'll just say up front, that the only reason why knives and baseball bats don't allow him to do that is because people with guns would shoot him dead from a distance. If these killings involved his wife and children and her new man in her life, all that can easily happen without guns and likely would have if he didn't have access to guns. He would have snuck into the house and killed them by other means.

Fix the problem rather than treat the symptoms.

 

[Double Trouble]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/6-dead-suspect-on-loose-in-suburban-philadelphia/ar-BBgQjQF

An emerging story but all too familiar. I have to say I think I can cite at least 10 times this year a similar occurrence in other states.

Here's another example just off the top of my head
http://www.click2houston.com/news/deputies-at-least-six-killed-in-shooting-in-spring-area/26871346

And another
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/30/chicago-nordstrom_n_6242618.html

I really could keep going

What can be done to prevent this sort of thing? Am I the only one growing weary of this country's increasingly perverse gun culture?

What "perverse gun culture"? You mean the culture with an ever-declining crime rate?

Is the solution making requirements for gun ownership stricter?

Yeah, like Chicago, or Baltimore, or .......

Just no. Restricting the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens because someone abuses a right and commits a criminal act is bullshit.

Maybe even make gun ownership a cyclical lottery of sorts where only a finite number of licenses are available at any time for which everyone is able to get one if selected in a random lottery held every 1-2 years.

Pure bullshit. Would you be OK with making your constitutional right to vote a cyclical lottery? How about your freedom of speech? Right to assemble peacefully?

Hint: guns are not the problem. The crime rate including gun crimes continues to decline, no matter what the media tells you.

 

[Bitek]

He's another Iraq war vet who shot up his wife and family.
There was another one of these in the same area just a couple years ago.

All too familiar story of coming back, PTSD, divorce then suicide or murder.
Bad..

 

[Bitek]

This is in Perk's area..

 

[Blanky]

He's another Iraq war vet who shot up his wife and family.
There was another one of these in the same area just a couple years ago.

All too familiar story of coming back, PTSD, divorce then suicide or murder.
Bad..

I know war vets have insane suicid rates but how are their rates of violence? Are they disproportionatly killing or mass killing?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I know war vets have insane suicid rates but how are their rates of violence? Are they disproportionatly killing or mass killing?

Here's a bit of info

An article about a study on the rate of violence (it is only one study)

"An investigation of nearly 14,000 military personnel found that about 20 per cent of young servicemen under the age of 30 had at least one conviction for a violent offence compared with less than 7 per cent for young men of a similar age in the general population."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...essed-traumatic-events-in-combat-8534974.html

regarding increase in sex crimes and other violence issues in still serving troops:

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2012/01/20/report-us-soldiers-bringing-their-violence-home-overseas

"Violent sex crimes committed by active U.S. Army soldiers have almost doubled over the past five years, due in part to the trauma of war, according to an Army report released on Thursday.

Reported violent sex crimes increased by 90 percent over the five-year period from 2006 to 2011. There were 2,811 violent felonies in 2011, nearly half of which were violent felony sex crimes. Most were committed in the United States.

One violent sex crime was committed by a soldier every six hours and 40 minutes in 2011, the Army said, serving as the main driver for an overall increase in violent felony crimes."

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2012/01/20/report-us-soldiers-bringing-their-violence-home-overseas

 

[Matt1970]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/6-dead-suspect-on-loose-in-suburban-philadelphia/ar-BBgQjQF

An emerging story but all too familiar. I have to say I think I can cite at least 10 times this year a similar occurrence in other states.

Here's another example just off the top of my head
http://www.click2houston.com/news/deputies-at-least-six-killed-in-shooting-in-spring-area/26871346

And another
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/30/chicago-nordstrom_n_6242618.html

I really could keep going

What can be done to prevent this sort of thing? Am I the only one growing weary of this country's increasingly perverse gun culture? Is the solution making requirements for gun ownership stricter? Or perhaps taking domestic abuse claims far more seriously? Maybe even make gun ownership a cyclical lottery of sorts where only a finite number of licenses are available at any time for which everyone is able to get one if selected in a random lottery held every 1-2 years.

Because someone who is not even the least bit concerned about the value of human life or 6 murder convictions is somehow going to be concerned about a charge for illegal firearms possession?

 

[Lash444]

Because someone who is not even the least bit concerned about the value of human life or 6 murder convictions is somehow going to be concerned about a charge for illegal firearms possession?

Indeed.

Why don't people think that crap through.

 

[WelshBloke]

We all know that courts and the system is vastly biased towards the woman in any of these situations. We all know the results of these disputes would have been in her favor, no matter what type of guy this person was. I can totally see someone fly off the rocker when seeing the justice behind the rulings. A woman always wins in court against a man, much like a cop always wins.

Probably not the best situation to make that argument given the type of person this guy was. :/

 

[Sunburn74]

What "perverse gun culture"? You mean the culture with an ever-declining crime rate?

Yeah, like Chicago, or Baltimore, or .......

Just no. Restricting the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens because someone abuses a right and commits a criminal act is bullshit.

Pure bullshit. Would you be OK with making your constitutional right to vote a cyclical lottery? How about your freedom of speech? Right to assemble peacefully?

Hint: guns are not the problem. The crime rate including gun crimes continues to decline, no matter what the media tells you.

It is possible that overall crime rates are declining in spite of gun proliferation. Even if specifically violent crime is declining, that doesn't counter the notion that it may decline even further with stricter regulation of firearms. The examples of chicago and baltimore are outliers. You can cite those two cities as failures of a strategy of limiting access to weaponry, but others can cite entire countries as successes. I would say at this point, no one really knows if it'd work in the US. Whats more important is having the discussion about the risks and benefits of easy access to firearms in our current social milieu.

I find it really hard to draw parallels behind today's current gun culture and the gun culture at the time the 2nd amendment was written. Initially the right to vote was for white, land owning males but has been expanded to others as cultural norms and demographics changed. Why is it so unreasonable that as firearms become more powerful and lethal in nature, that the right to own them is restricted as our cultural norms change. Our cultural norm now is becoming one of daily shootings of innocents. We're not talking about one guy shooting up his family, but many many guys. At some point, the risks of guns outweigh the benefits. Trees don't grow to the sky; too much of anything becomes bad.

Where is that point with firearms?

 

[fskimospy]

It is possible that overall crime rates are declining in spite of gun proliferation. Even if specifically violent crime is declining, that doesn't counter the notion that it may decline even further with stricter regulation of firearms. The examples of chicago and baltimore are outliers. You can cite those two cities as failures of a strategy of limiting access to weaponry, but others can cite entire countries as successes. I would say at this point, no one really knows if it'd work in the US. Whats more important is having the discussion about the risks and benefits of easy access to firearms in our current social milieu.

I find it really hard to draw parallels behind today's current gun culture and the gun culture at the time the 2nd amendment was written. Initially the right to vote was for white, land owning males but has been expanded to others as cultural norms and demographics changed. Why is it so unreasonable that as firearms become more powerful and lethal in nature, that the right to own them is restricted as our cultural norms change. Our cultural norm now is becoming one of daily shootings of innocents. We're not talking about one guy shooting up his family, but many many guys. At some point, the risks of guns outweigh the benefits. Trees don't grow to the sky; too much of anything becomes bad.

Where is that point with firearms?

Also, the percentage of households reporting that they own a firearm has been steadily declining for years. What has happened is that you have a smaller proportion of Americans who buy LOTS of guns, and a relatively less armed population as a whole.

None of that has to mean that fewer gun owners is the cause of less crime, but it certainly contradicts the idea that gun culture has anything to do with a decreased crime rate. If anything the evidence points the other way.

 

[moonbogg]

Oh well, that sucks.

That's what happens when you refuse to evolve your society beyond the days of the wild west. Ya get shot, you know?

 

[DrunkenSano]

Gun bans and stricter gun laws only prevents lawful and responsible citizens from getting guns. Criminals will still get guns, no matter how strict gun laws are. To think otherwise is foolish and delusional.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Oh well, that sucks.

That's what happens when you refuse to evolve your society beyond the days of the wild west. Ya get shot, you know?

Quoting for future. I mean, who doesn't want a bogg quote?

 

[z1ggy]

Gun bans and stricter gun laws only prevents lawful and responsible citizens from getting guns. Criminals will still get guns, no matter how strict gun laws are. To think otherwise is foolish and delusional.

Well, to be fair, this guy only had DUI's apparently, and it's not evident if he got his gun permit before or after those happened. My guess would be before. Tons of people aren't criminals until they use a gun to commit a crime. That is not really preventable.

However, it was pretty apparent this guy was violent and a threat to his ex wife who claimed numerous times she was afraid for her life due to his actions. However, it's really not legal to take away somebody's 2nd amendment right until they get convicted of a crime which would then prevent them from buying any future weapons. I'm not entirely sure what happens if you own a license and get convicted of a crime during that time period. Pretty sure the government can't just take your firearms away from you... But it could vary by state, I'm not sure.

 

[moonbogg]

Quoting for future. I mean, who doesn't want a bogg quote?

What? Why should I care about people in Pennsylvania? I don't see you crying over the kids in Pakistan. Idiots want their guns? Well, they got them didn't they! That's what happens in America. People get shot.

 

[allisolm]

Shooter Stone is dead.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/12/16/body-found-in-woods-near-pennsburg-is-stones/

 

[CLite]

I'd say this is more of the reason for their dispute and these killings:

We all know that courts and the system is vastly biased towards the woman in any of these situations. We all know the results of these disputes would have been in her favor, no matter what type of guy this person was. I can totally see someone fly off the rocker when seeing the justice behind the rulings. A woman always wins in court against a man, much like a cop always wins.

Vastly biased towards people that don't have DUI convictions, don't make violent threats and don't have a mental health that leads them to kill a great-grandparent, grandparent, multiple mothers, a father, and a 14 year old niece.

This is a great thread for you to rant about woman being favored as it's about a father killing 4 generations of a family.

 

[corwin]

Shooter Stone is dead.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/12/16/body-found-in-woods-near-pennsburg-is-stones/

Sounds like he stabbed himself to death

Sounds like a knife was used in the other "shootings" too...wonder if a gun was actually used or it was just ass-sumed he used one

 

[Jaskalas]

Among his victims were a 14 year old girl and 17 year old boy.

That SOB got off easy.

 

[corwin]

Among his victims were a 14 year old girl and 17 year old boy.

That SOB got off easy.

Yep...but the 17yo is still alive, cut bad but alive

 

[marincounty]

He's another Iraq war vet who shot up his wife and family.
There was another one of these in the same area just a couple years ago.

All too familiar story of coming back, PTSD, divorce then suicide or murder.
Bad..

That is why the military needs to send all of these soldiers to re-training to re-sensitize them to civil society. Non-violent training on how to deal with conflict. Just turning them loose on society is not working, nor is turning them into cops a good idea.
All released convicts should undergo similar training to re-enter society.

 

[Bitek]

That is why the military needs to send all of these soldiers to re-training to re-sensitize them to civil society. Non-violent training on how to deal with conflict. Just turning them loose on society is not working, nor is turning them into cops a good idea.
All released convicts should undergo similar training to re-enter society.

We are failing them badly. I suicide rate is high, as well as other drug abuse/divorce/unemployment.

Have cousins who were in Iraq. Some came back pretty screwed up.

I never liked the war, and what we are doing with the people that went is pretty horrible also. Dunno if that was the case here, but the situation sounds messed up.

 

[OverVolt]

I do think the issue is people on SSRIs longterm who kirk out and snap one day. They have no emotions...

1 in 10 people take an SSRI. Its crazy. For real... longterm use of them gives people certain personality traits that give me the creeps these days.

http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/532/70/

Related... sort of.

Their relationships fail because of the loss of libido side effect IMO. The way oxytocin is related to orgasm/trust I feel they have a hard time trusting others. They really are alot like zombies. I would imagine something like a massage does practically nothing to relieve stress for someone on an SSRI.