6-4-07 DRAM chipmakers suffer worst quarter since 2001 on lackluster Vista sales

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0

Choices:

Genuine Windows Vista? Ultimate
Genuine Windows Vista? Business
Genuine Windows® XP Professional
Genuine Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition
Red Hat® Enterprise Linux WS v.4 (EM64T)
http://www.dell.com/content/products/pr...cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~section=specs#tabtop

If you are all hung up on XP here is a pimp gaming rig from dell that ships with it:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/pr...dt_710h2c?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: stash
...But again, this is only my opinion. I haven't seen any statistics or hard evidence that would give a clear indication of the number of support cases that are closed for free versus for pay. I'm just sceptical, knowing what I know about tech support, that they will properly diagnose something as a bug and give you a pass on the payment option.
I used to work in PSS, so I can speak with some authority on the topic. Every case that is resolved as being the result of a code bug is closed as non-dec (non-decrement, AKA free). There are no exceptions that I'm aware of.

Everyone who works in PSS from the CPR guys in the US all the way to the guys in Bangalore knows this policy. And as far as diagnosing something as a bug, the root cause is either a bug or it isn't. It's usually pretty clear-cut. If the engineer finds a case or an article that says a certain hotfix might fix it, and it does, that's a bug, free case. If nothing is working as far as troubleshooting, the case will get escalated to CPR and eventually someone is going to look at the code. If the problem is as a result of something happening in code, that's a bug, free case. If the engineer gives you a fix that seems to work and that is not releated a code defect, but then the issue returns, you call back and reopen your case.

I'm also in PSS and I'll confirm this. I'll also add that Support is a COST center at Microsoft, not a profit center. Even with paid incidents MS still takes a loss on every support call. This is typical of most software companies too. The only exceptions are Open Source where support is a profit center.
I have my own PSS id, and I can confirm that I make it a cost center and not a profit center. :D

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
If Vista is so great as some in here would have you to believe then why are there so many threads made by people that are not happy about it's performance or capatability???

I don't recall XP having this kind of bad start.

XP was an improvement.

It's core stopped the dreaded memory leak down that eventually crashed any machine no matter how much RAM was thrown at it.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
If Vista is so great as some in here would have you to believe then why are there so many threads made by people that are not happy about it's performance or capatability???

I don't recall XP having this kind of bad start.

XP was an improvement.

It's core stopped the dreaded memory leak down that eventually crashed any machine no matter how much RAM was thrown at it.

Because it's the first new major version in...7 years?
XP was a 2K face lift, Vista is more akin to the NT4 to 2K transition.

And there were truckloads of posts whining about XP when it came out.

And memory leak that XP fixed? WTF are you talking about?
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
If Vista is so great as some in here would have you to believe then why are there so many threads made by people that are not happy about it's performance or capatability???

I don't recall XP having this kind of bad start.

XP was an improvement.

It's core stopped the dreaded memory leak down that eventually crashed any machine no matter how much RAM was thrown at it.
Don't make someone use the horrendous search here to prove you wrong like Tegeril did with your "no XP computers available" claim.

And wtf is capatability? Capability? Compatibility?
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
If Vista is so great as some in here would have you to believe then why are there so many threads made by people that are not happy about it's performance or capatability???
Squeeky wheel gets the grease. Why would anyone create a forum post that says, "Uh, things are working. Nothing to report"??? Also note that a large majority of those threads get resolved or simply determined to be pbkac.
I don't recall XP having this kind of bad start.
Your memory is short. It was far worse. XP sp1 was HUGE.

XP was an improvement.

It's core stopped the dreaded memory leak down that eventually crashed any machine no matter how much RAM was thrown at it.
k, please elaborate. I have no idea what you are talking about. Why does a problem solved by XP somehow make Vista bad anyway? I don't follow the logic.
 

bigi

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2001
2,488
155
106
I am sick of hearing the whiners bash Microsoft. Don't like their restrictions? Don't like their software? Don't want to pay so much for an OS? Don't like their philosophy? quit whining/pirating/blah blah blah and take the time to learn something else. Ubuntu has made Linux as simple as Windows for anyone who can install windows and read. It would work for about 90% of the people (who don't care what they run, they just want to surf the web and get the joke emails from their friends). I don't run Linux because I hate b!lly, or because M$ $uxxors, I run it because I prefer that as a tool of choice (and I use windows when I feel it would make sense). But if you really feel that MS is bad, that Vista sucks, and that they have wronged you, then move off to something else, don't post garbage like "they should make XP public domain" on a message board. you look like a teenage brat.

Make it a STICKY
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
If Vista is so great as some in here would have you to believe then why are there so many threads made by people that are not happy about it's performance or capatability???
I wish I had a dollar for every time people pinned blame on the wrong thing around here. I could have pizza every day for weeks :Q Some newbie's boot-device priority in the motherboard BIOS gets mixed up, and OH NOES WINDOWS IS EVIL even though it's a hardware/user problem. And so forth.

The biggest legit issue I had with Vista is the need to kick Flash Player in the head to make it work, using the Flashutil9b.exe thing. And that's plausibly an Adobe problem. I survived :D
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
Does anyone remember what happened when Service Pack 2 came out? And that was FIXING things. lol.

Vista just needs a few months to get going. I'm using it, just fine. It gets buggy, but I knew that when I built the machine. It only quits on me when I start screwing things up.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: Sunner
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
If Vista is so great as some in here would have you to believe then why are there so many threads made by people that are not happy about it's performance or capatability???

I don't recall XP having this kind of bad start.

XP was an improvement.

It's core stopped the dreaded memory leak down that eventually crashed any machine no matter how much RAM was thrown at it.

Because it's the first new major version in...7 years?
XP was a 2K face lift, Vista is more akin to the NT4 to 2K transition.

And there were truckloads of posts whining about XP when it came out.

And memory leak that XP fixed? WTF are you talking about?

What he said...

I looked at the first 10 Vista problems posted to this forum that people were having.

Vista Hangs on boot - Hardware problem/user error - not enough info given
Vista locked me out of a folder - user misunderstanding
Where is my harddrive space - user misunderstanding
wireless gaming woes - hardware driver
Access Denied - user error
Vista and Flash - app incompatibility
sleep doesnt work - hardware/drivers (yes, really)
cant open control panel - drivers/software incompatibility
vista and starforce - app incompatibility
blue screen with divx - drivers/app incompatibility

In between those, there were 7 Xp "problems".

Out of all those 10, not a single one of them could be directly attributed to Vista itself screwing up. You had a moment of clarity before when you seemed to realize for a second that a new OS after half a decade is going to have incompatibilities, yet you seem to have gone back to lunatic camp.

XP came a year after 2000, which was already a vast improvement over 98. They were VERY similar underneath the hood, and used the same driver model. Most of the incompatibilities had been solved between 2000 and XPs release, although there was certainly quite a bit of growing pains (especially with SP1).

Not everyone understands how to deal with these kind of things. YOU SHOULD. So you apparently lack the skills to deal with any minor issues in getting your own Vista running, or you can't deal with the undeniable fact that any release of this magnitude will have growing pains. Fine, get rid of vista. But going on a tirade like you are, the only real issues you are bringing to the light are your own personal ones, and while its entertaining, it's also pretty retarded.
 

RebateMonger

Elite Member
Dec 24, 2005
11,586
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
4-4-2007 Latest MS Update Causing Major Headaches - Some AV apps won't launch, some PCs won't boot...

Users in our Security forum note that the latest critical Microsoft Windows update (KB925902) is causing all kinds of problems. .
Yeah. I'd read about this one in another forum. So far only one client's XP Professional box got hit. It's a nearly-new Dell laptop and, out of the blue, it started constantly crashing the morning after the Windows Automatic Update (memory access errors related to a Windows Update). Microsoft's automatic crash debugger said it was caused by KB925902 and gave the solution (KB927891), but it was tough to apply since the PC wouldn't stay up long enough to run the patch.
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
4-4-2007 Latest MS Update Causing Major Headaches - Some AV apps won't launch, some PCs won't boot...

Users in our Security forum note that the latest critical Microsoft Windows update (KB925902) is causing all kinds of problems. .
Yeah. I'd read about this one in another forum. So far only one client's XP Professional box got hit. It's a nearly-new Dell laptop and, out of the blue, it started constantly crashing the morning after the Windows Automatic Update (memory access errors related to a Windows Update). Microsoft's automatic crash debugger said it was caused by KB925902 and gave the solution (KB927891), but it was tough to apply since the PC wouldn't stay up long enough to run the patch.

I'm confused as ******. You sure you didn't mistype the KBs you mentioned? :confused: :)

927891 fixes a 100% cpu usage problem seen if you install 916089 which is a Windows Installer 3.1 update and does not apply to Vista.

kb927891has various versions of 3.1.4000.x and shouldn't even touch msi.dll on Vista. If it somehow did you would be breaking things.

MSI.dll in Vista should be version 4.0.6000.16386.

KB925902 does not change this.

If your problem went away when you installed kb927891 then something else was almost certainly happening since 925902 doesn't even have an msi.dll in it.

This is kinda what I was talking about when I said updates often take the blame when they are unrelated.




 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Does anyone remember what happened when Service Pack 2 came out? And that was FIXING things. lol.

Vista just needs a few months to get going. I'm using it, just fine. It gets buggy, but I knew that when I built the machine. It only quits on me when I start screwing things up.

So in a couple of months this brand new laptop running like a old retired bird dog on Vista will magically perform like a greyhound race dog??? We'll see.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
I call shens on the first poll, and pretty much on this entire thread!

Vista is decent, aside from the nags and stuff!

:thumbsdown:

:roll:

:confused:

:Q

:p
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
27,370
239
106
Short answer to the non-poll poll - yes. :)
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Does anyone remember what happened when Service Pack 2 came out? And that was FIXING things. lol.

Vista just needs a few months to get going. I'm using it, just fine. It gets buggy, but I knew that when I built the machine. It only quits on me when I start screwing things up.

So in a couple of months this brand new laptop running like a old retired bird dog on Vista will magically perform like a greyhound race dog??? We'll see.

perhaps if it acquires a new competent owner.
 

Tegeril

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2003
2,906
5
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Does anyone remember what happened when Service Pack 2 came out? And that was FIXING things. lol.

Vista just needs a few months to get going. I'm using it, just fine. It gets buggy, but I knew that when I built the machine. It only quits on me when I start screwing things up.

So in a couple of months this brand new laptop running like a old retired bird dog on Vista will magically perform like a greyhound race dog??? We'll see.

I can't believe you're still showing your face in this thread.
 

RebateMonger

Elite Member
Dec 24, 2005
11,586
0
0
Originally posted by: Smilin
I'm confused as ******. You sure you didn't mistype the KBs you mentioned? :confused: :)
What I think happened is:

A new Dell laptop went crazy the morning after the latest Windows Update. That update ATTEMPTED to install KB925902. It never finished and, according to the MS OCA diagnosis, msi.dll was involved.

KB927891 fixed the problem. After the fix, Windows Update was able to successfully install KB925902. I blamed KB92590 because that was the only update that was "installed" that night.

I was doing all this at 2 am for a client, so I didn't have time to fully investigate what was happening. All I really knew for sure was that after the "emergency" ANI update, the PC was running at 100% CPU forever.

But yeah, it could be that a PREVIOUS update had trashed XP's ability to do any more updates, so KB925902 was the first "victim".
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
All I know is it won't run any of my real estate software (thank god I didn't upgrade my lap top) and it crashes when I try to start up my MS Flight Simulator X

Other than that I like it.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
All I know is it won't run any of my real estate software (thank god I didn't upgrade my lap top) and it crashes when I try to start up my MS Flight Simulator X

Other than that I like it.

I'm surprised others didn't chime in here that you must be an incompetent PC owner since you can't get that Real Estate software or MS Flight Sim to work.

That's something that Microsoft's own code won't work.

Sounds like Vista is not backwards compatible at all.
 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
All I know is it won't run any of my real estate software (thank god I didn't upgrade my lap top) and it crashes when I try to start up my MS Flight Simulator X

Other than that I like it.

I'm surprised others didn't chime in here that you must be an incompetent PC owner since you can't get that Real Estate software or MS Flight Sim to work.

That's something that Microsoft's own code won't work.

Sounds like Vista is not backwards compatible at all.

If you're dependent on running some critical piece of software, and the developers of said software haven't tested the crap out of it and said it's OK to upgrade, you shouldn't upgrade. A lot of poorly coded programs won't work between OS levels (sometimes simply because they're hardcoded to only work in, say, WinXP for no good reason), and even well-designed software may need some small amount of tweaking.

Saying "MS Flight Sim doesn't work" is exceedingly vague -- it works for other people, as do many other games, so clearly it's not the case that "Vista is not backwards compatible at all". If the previous poster has an NVIDIA-based graphics card, I would be more inclined to blame their shoddy drivers (although they did, finally, put out some updated Vista ones this week.)

In short:

Originally posted by: loup garou
Oh god, please restrain your lunacy to P&N.