My car (2003 civic) states that it wants some 5w-20 oil. I just went to pep boys and I didnt see any of this grade of oil. I was wondering how bad it would be to use 5w-30. Should I really try to find this other grade or should it be fine to use the other?
5w20 vs 5w-30
- Thread starter Beattie
- Start date
Depending on what you mean by gimmick, I'm not sure whether to agree or not.
There are certainly 5W-20 oils that are better than any petroleum 5W-30.
But those are the synthetics.Pennzoil's 5W-20(conventional) is pretty good, although it has a low TBN. If you're a subscriber to the 3,000 mile oil change, this does not matter and Pennzoil's 5W-20 is the best conventional 5W-20 oil you can get.
Havoline's 5W-20 is a good tradeoff, since it has a higher TBN, but a bit less high temperature/high shear stability. A good idea if you take frequent short trips.
Believe it or not, Mobil(NOT mobil1 synthetic) is the worst 5W-20 oil, with a horrifying flash point of 392ºF. :Q
AMSOil is the best 5W-20 in all categories.
I used to say to get whatever oil was cheapest, and focus on your oil filter. I do not agree with that train of thought anymore, because quite frankly there are some oils out there that really suck. It is true for oil just like it is everything else; you get what you pay for.
Don't get me wrong, though. Your oil filter is at least as important as the oil you use.
I agree, though. You may as well just get a high quality 5W-30.
If you're going to go conventional, Havoline "Petroleum" is quite good. 450º Flash Point, 2.90(higher better) in the High Temp/High Shear, a respectable TBN at 7.6, and low ash content.
Mobil1 SuperSyn, which is synthetic, is actually worse in some areas!
Stay away from Wal-Mart's SuperTech! :Q There are literally dozens of oils that are orders of magnitude better. 405º FP, horrible TBN of 5.0... It is better than well known names like Castrol GTX, and Quaker State Peak Performance, though... that isn't saying much.
You can't lump all manufacturers together and say "Valvoline sucks, Pennzoil rules..", because the varying quality of the different oils even produced by the same manufacturer is quite astounding.
For example, Mobil's Drive Clean Blend(Synthetic Blend) is horrid! 392º FP, 5.0TBN.. SuperTech is better... and is going to even be a lot cheaper.
:|
Ugh. It makes me angry.
I always thought air filter > oil filter > oil in degree of importance.
Wasn't 5W-20 is forced by European tougher emission and environmental standard? Now its making its way to the US. It should offer better fuel mileage also (probably neglible difference though)>
Wasn't 5W-20 is forced by European tougher emission and environmental standard? Now its making its way to the US. It should offer better fuel mileage also (probably neglible difference though)>
Basically.
Neither is really more or less important, since without any of them, you'd be screwed. They're supposed to work together.
Whatever gets passed your air filter will make it into your oil, where your oil filter has to deal with it.
So your air filter is your first line of defense, in that respect.
However.. by selecting a good quality oil from the get-go, you reduce the load on your oil filter, enabling it to capture more baddies.
The oil filter is still more important than the specific oil, though. Any and all oil is rendered basically useless if it has solid particles in it and they cannot be removed.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
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I'm going to have to disagree with you. Oils like Pennzoil and Quaker State are paraffin-based and as such have no business in any engine of mine. Paraffin-based oils have a far greater tendency to leave sludge deposits and I would never recommend using one. All the technical stats may well be great, but I'm just not real keen on dumping a bunch of wax into my car's engine.
ZV
Yeah, but you and I aren't normal when it comes to automobiles.
You and I both know that air-cooled engines have no business seeing non-synthetic oil. Especially a low-quality non-synthetic oil.
You must be aware, however, that there are synthetic oils that are worse than highly refined conventional oils.
I wasn't comparing synthetic to petroleum. Pennzoil's 5W-20 is the best conventional 5W-20 you can get.
The specs do matter. They can refine conventional oil to the point where it can legally be considered synthetic. Such processes are very expensive. That is why they have to charge more for the oil, they simply can't afford not to.
They also happen to remove about 99% of all waxes, enabling a very respectable pour point of -49F(for the Pennzoil 5W-20) for a conventional oil.
This is a printed article from [url]www.theautochannel.com, dated June 1996. It is sponsored by Pennzoil Motor Oil Company and that's why there is reference to that product in the article. [/url]
"...
Paraffin-based Crude Oils
Most people relate the word paraffin to candle wax. This is a correct association, BUT one of the most incorrect and widely circulated misconceptions about sludge is that it forms more easily in paraffin-based motor oils. This couldn't be further from the truth. All major motor oils, in fact, are formulated using a paraffin-based crude oil. Naphthenic-based crude oils are actually more likely to form sludge in an engine than oils formulated with paraffin-based crude oils. This is due to the higher breakdown resistance of paraffin-based crude oils. O.K., so how does sludge really form?
..."
"...
Paraffin-based Crude Oils
Most people relate the word paraffin to candle wax. This is a correct association, BUT one of the most incorrect and widely circulated misconceptions about sludge is that it forms more easily in paraffin-based motor oils. This couldn't be further from the truth. All major motor oils, in fact, are formulated using a paraffin-based crude oil. Naphthenic-based crude oils are actually more likely to form sludge in an engine than oils formulated with paraffin-based crude oils. This is due to the higher breakdown resistance of paraffin-based crude oils. O.K., so how does sludge really form?
..."
Well of course.
We were talking Synthetic vs. conventional, though. That quote does not apply to synthetics, obviously.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
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I've read that about paraffin-based oils in many, many places (not all on the internet either). I'll have to do some more digging on this one. Still, my theory behind this is the same as it is about BP gasoline. Where there's smoke, there's fire. And I know way too many people who are obsessive about their cars who would never put Pennzoil or Quaker State in their engines and who will never use BP gasoline.
ZV
Pennzoils line is pretty good overall. Much better than any generic brand. Wal-Mart's SuperTech FullSyn is worse in every aspect, LOL. There are dozens of brands that are much, much worse. They do have some blemishes, though. Most of their synthetic line is a joke.
You just can't beat a high quality synthetic though. All conventional oils are paltry in comparison.
Citgo makes some VERY, VERY nice conventional 10W-30, Citgard 600. :Q The Viscosity Index could be better, but with a 486º Flash Point, 3.60 HS/HT, and 11.0 TBN.. there isn't much to complain about. There are quite a few synthetics that have much worse specs. I bet it is very expensive for a conventional oil.
How about running a synthetic 0w20 instead of 5w20? Like the original poster, I've got a Civic with a D17 engine in it. I've got conventional Castrol 5w20 in there right now, but I also my oil religiously at 3K or slightly before.
I've heard some of the Civic guys say 0w20 synth is a good substitute oil to use. Your thoughts, Eli? If I do stick with dino oil, I'm for sure going for Pennzoil 5w20 next time. Thanks for the info!
I've heard some of the Civic guys say 0w20 synth is a good substitute oil to use. Your thoughts, Eli? If I do stick with dino oil, I'm for sure going for Pennzoil 5w20 next time. Thanks for the info!
0W-20 is funny, because there aren't very many people that make it.
The best 0W-20 is Mobil1 SuperSyn. About the only good things about it are that it is synthetic, and that it has an insane pour point of -70ºF. So if you're going to be cruising in an Alaskan Winter, go for the 0W-20.
453ºF Flash Point, 2.61 HT/HS, 13% NOACK, 5.0TBN..Pennzoil's conventional 5W-20 comes very close to the synthetic 0W-20. -49ºF Pour Point, 445ºF Flash Point, 2.65 HT/HS, 13% NOACK, 5TBN.
Mobil(NOT mobil1 synthetic)conventional 5W-20 is absolutely horrid.
It really depends on your environment which oil is going to be better. Their specs vary so wildly, you'd have to be an expert to even begin to decipher which oil would be best for you and your particular conditions.
Mobil1's TriSyn 0W-30 is a very good oil, second only to AMSOil's 0W-30. -65ºF Pour Point, 460ºF Flash Point, 2.90 HT/HS, 13% NOACK, 5.0TBN. That would be a very good alternative to 5W-20 if you need the cold weather performance, but don't like the idea of sticking such a thin oil in your engine.
I actually didn't have a car until a few weeks ago, when I inheirited my Dads old 1/2ton Chevy PU.Originally posted by: weirdichi
Eli, what kinda car and what oil and filter do you use? Your knowledge of oil impresses me.
It has a stroked and 0.030 over Chevy 350 in it with high CR(10.5:1 - requires Plus) heads and a mild cam.
He's always run Pennzoil conventional 10W-30 in it. Never bought into the synthetic thing, he's kinda old fashioned.
He also just used a run of the mill STP oil filter.
Pennzoil is about average when it comes to conventional 10W-30. Better than Wal-Mart and Quaker State, worse than Havoline and Chevron.
Now that it is in my care, I will probably run AMSOil in it. Probably an AMSOil air and oil filter, too.. although that's kinda still up in the air. I haven't done as much research as I'd like on air and oil filters yet.
Schaeffer, Neo and Red Line make some excellent top of the line synthetic oils, too. It's basically a tossup, although depending on certain driving habbits and/or environmental conditions, some may be more appropriate than others.
Valvoline, Havoline, Chevron, Exxon, and Kendall are the most mainstream runners up. I was actually quite impressed with Valvoline's specs, most of their synthetic oils are second only to the top synthetics.
Eli, I'm in Columbus, OH. Our winters get cold (not Alaska cold, however). The only reason why I'd worry about it at all is because it's a pretty high-revving little engine. It seems that crappy oil could really screw something up over the long-term. Usually I'm either stuck in traffic or crusing on the highway, but I'll admit I don't grandma drive. That's why running something as thin as 5w20 makes me nervous, it just seems like it wouldn't protect when I cross the 12-noon position on my tach ;-) Knowing my climate and driving habits, which would you recommend? Clearly cold weather performance is an issue, but we're coming into the summer months here where warm weather will be the main issue. Ideally I'd like to find something that's pretty good at everything and is able to take my abuse. Thanks again for all of the fantastic info in this thread, and have fun with your truck!
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