5960x @ 4.4ghz vs 4790k @4.8ghz

hunkeelin

Senior member
Feb 14, 2012
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Anyone have the bench mark between those two cpu at those clock?
Any prediction?


side question. My 5960x is at 4.4ghz under 80c under load with 1.285v. (stressed tested 8hrs with realbench [approved])
Do you think running 24/7 like that is damaging to my cpu?

Thanks
 
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erunion

Senior member
Jan 20, 2013
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Does that platform support idle declocking with an overclock? My 2500k/p67 @ 4.2ghz still idles 1600mhz @ ~1v.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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Anyone have the bench mark between those two cpu at those clock?
Any prediction?


side question. My 5960x is at 4.4ghz under 80c under load with 1.285v. (stressed tested 8hrs with realbench [approved])
Do you think running 24/7 like that is damaging to my cpu?

Thanks

What kind of cooler are you running? The max Tcase as posted by Intel is 66.8C.

Sounds like the cooler is not anywhere close to being adequate for a 140W CPU that is overclocked (and probably consuming closer to 160W).
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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tcase max is not that important. I have h240-x

No, it is important. Its not the same as core temp, its the package temp. But that doesn't mean you can ignore it. If your cores are over 80, I have no doubt the tcase is close to the same temp. My 4690K is only a few degrees less than the cores after its been running for a while.

My point is, those temps are too high for prolonged use. Either try that clock with a lower voltage, or drop the clocks. Or maybe try re-seating the cooler block to get better contact.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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80c under stress testing is not dangerous. 80c at idle is, but I don't think OP ever said that.

I would't be concerned.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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Tcase is NOT Tj MAN!



80 is a little hi, but ok temp.

I know its not TJ. Tcase is the sensor between the cores, typically referred to as "package temperature" by HWMonitor.

But if running under load for extended periods, the package temp will rise to be close to the core temps.

The OP made it sound like the machine is running at 80C 24/7. Which is too hot for prolonged usage in my opinion.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I know its not TJ. Tcase is the sensor between the cores, typically referred to as "package temperature" by HWMonitor.

But if running under load for extended periods, the package temp will rise to be close to the core temps.

The OP made it sound like the machine is running at 80C 24/7. Which is too hot for prolonged usage in my opinion.

It's going to be tough to get a good OC with this chip if you limit yourself to, say 65C max. It would pretty much mean that it would have to be kept at stock in 99% of cases. (pun not intended) You'd need high-end custom water cooling or LN2 to stay that low.
 
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Flapdrol1337

Golden Member
May 21, 2014
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Anyone have the bench mark between those two cpu at those clock?
Any prediction?


side question. My 5960x is at 4.4ghz under 80c under load with 1.285v. (stressed tested 8hrs with realbench [approved])
Do you think running 24/7 like that is damaging to my cpu?

Thanks

Under 1.3 is pretty safe I guess.

But if you're worried about damaging the cpu you could get the performance tuning protection plan and go for broke. :)
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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I know its not TJ. Tcase is the sensor between the cores, typically referred to as "package temperature" by HWMonitor.

But if running under load for extended periods, the package temp will rise to be close to the core temps.

The OP made it sound like the machine is running at 80C 24/7. Which is too hot for prolonged usage in my opinion.

As I still understand it, there is no "sensor between the cores." TCASE is a spec for a phantom sensor: what would be measured between IHS and die at dead center -- if there WERE a sensor there.

There was a history of contention about the spec. For instance, ShintaiDK (a respected member) doesn't think it's at all relevant to anything. IN his view, anything below the throttling Tj temperature spec is "OK."

The TCASE spec, however, is still published for Intel chips. ShintaiDK had dismissed that -- saying "that's for OEM builders!" I have to ask "Whether OEM builders or others -- why do they publish the spec, when they stopped publishing a spec for 'maximum safe voltage' after Nehalem?"

There had also been some white-papers or articles published at Tom's Hardware or similar repositories during the C2D/C2Q era, noting that TCASE would be about 10C lower than a core-sensor temperature average. But this would likely change from one chip generation to another.

If there's a "controversy," I try to steer clear of it. Instead, I "observe" the published TCASE spec, and try and use it as a target, an objective -- a guideline.

So for instance, with my 2700K system, I'd managed to keep the absolute worst load temperatures at ~71C -- about 2 or 3C below TCASE. Then, I introduced a second graphics card for SLI, and watched my stress-load temperature increase to ~76C. Not much more I can do about it, except to switch over to a good water loop. [I was patting myself on the back for the 71C achievement . . . ]

So I'll close my rant by suggesting that CPUs have two enemies: voltage (or excessive current), and heat. The materials used to make the chips have thermal properties. Heat will slowly degrade the chips; voltage -- electro-migration will also do damage over time. If the processors were made to operate within a voltage range AND a thermal range, their expected lifespan and the cost-accountant's choice of a "warranty period" likely incorporate those factors.

Finally, I'd suggest that there's a point where higher temperature requires higher voltage for stability, but lower temperature doesn't magically offer up a "voltage premium" for an over-clock, unless we're talking about LN2, maybe phase-change.

If it were MY 5960X and MY investment, I'd look at my usage patterns to determine just what percentage of time the CPU spends at that temperature (80C). And I'd either reduce the clock and voltage, or try and figure out a way to make the peak temperature close to or below 70.

Even with water-cooling, that could be a tough nut to crack -- I'd think. Maybe someone has a better understanding of it.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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I know there is debate over the Tcase temp. I know when it comes to Xeons in servers, Intel pretty much means what they say in regards to that temp. But thats for 24/7 update over the course of years while under load. Although Xeons pretty much all have a higher spec for the Tcase.

Its up to the OP, was just giving my opinion. Not claiming its fact. *shrug*
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I know there is debate over the Tcase temp. I know when it comes to Xeons in servers, Intel pretty much means what they say in regards to that temp. But thats for 24/7 update over the course of years while under load. Although Xeons pretty much all have a higher spec for the Tcase.

Its up to the OP, was just giving my opinion. Not claiming its fact. *shrug*

I feel like you're not taking the size of the IHS into account when talking about how close the core temps are to the case temp. That seems really important, especially considering the fact that the Tcase for the 5960X is lower than the Tcase on mainstream chips and the fact that it uses solder.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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^ i get up to 80 only if i run the stress test. If I am gaming it never went above 70C.

I don't see a problem with that at all . . . really. Lower temperatures are always better. If you think you can squeeze it down some more -- I offer encouragement. Otherwise, if you're happy with it, it's not too far afield from the TCASE limit, and I was mostly explaining the murky meaning of that spec. Stress-testing and real-world operation are two different things.

Also -- Ah been aroun' here fo awhile -- people know me for my nervous-Nellie attitude about volts and degrees. If I had a 5960X, I'd probably try pushing the voltage as high as you have it. For the temperatures, I think that's what you could expect for these E processors. You didn't say how you're cooling it.

Oh -- yes you did. Did I hear "Swiftech H240X?" I figure folks with your chip and a top-end board are going to make a money-pit out of it. I'd say if you can get those clocks, with those temperatures, with that cooler -- watch your money grow in a savings account.

EDIT: One more thought. It isn't so much that people are "cavalier" with reporting temperatures -- often just not explicit enough. Peak ("maximum") package temperature is a pretty conservative estimate -- meaning that it would be higher than the core averages taken over a period of time in a temperature log. Some people just pick the high core maximum value. This overlooks that error tolerance in the sensors as well as the time the cores spend at this or that temperature over a stress-test. The sense of worry you show with your thread suggests to me you may be looking at the high-end values.

Stuka87 said:
I know there is debate over the Tcase temp. I know when it comes to Xeons in servers, Intel pretty much means what they say in regards to that temp. But that's for 24/7 update over the course of years while under load. Although Xeons pretty much all have a higher spec for the Tcase.

Its up to the OP, was just giving my opinion. Not claiming its fact. *shrug*

Won't argue with you about it -- I think we're pretty much in agreement. I was just surprised to find someone who finds any significance in that spec.

They continue to publish it for a reason. I think if they don't explicitly explain a "reason," you can deduce one.

======
Overall, I think 4.4 is a pretty good result for that chip -- all eight cores of it. And I think folks had better expectations for 4.4 . . . 4.5 with the 5930K or the 5820K. The stock clocks on the Octo were the lowest of the breed.
 
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guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
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I have the Intel Tuning protection package for the 5960x I just built. (Also bought the plan for my 3930k-now for sale- and my 3770k).

I have the 5960X OC'd to 4.4Ghz and custom watercooled with an EK Supremacy Evo cpu block and TONS of rad capacity since I'm also water cooling my 2 R9 290s in CF.

I ran Asus ROG Realbench software for 4 hrs and my hottest core was 71C with the next hottest 68. Temps were measured with Aida64 AND those were MAX temps not averages. I have 3 480mm rads in my loop with 12 AP15 GT fans.

The 5960x kicks out the heat at 4.4Ghz. Since the OP ran 8 hrs with an approved real bench he should be OK. If he intends to run that cpu flat out at 4.4 for extended perios I would improve the cpu cooling. Sounds like his cooler may be getting saturated with heat.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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I have the Intel Tuning protection package for the 5960x I just built. (Also bought the plan for my 3930k-now for sale- and my 3770k).

I have the 5960X OC'd to 4.4Ghz and custom watercooled with an EK Supremacy Evo cpu block and TONS of rad capacity since I'm also water cooling my 2 R9 290s in CF.

I ran Asus ROG Realbench software for 4 hrs and my hottest core was 71C with the next hottest 68. Temps were measured with Aida64 AND those were MAX temps not averages. I have 3 480mm rads in my loop with 12 AP15 GT fans.

The 5960x kicks out the heat at 4.4Ghz. Since the OP ran 8 hrs with an approved real bench he should be OK. If he intends to run that cpu flat out at 4.4 for extended perios I would improve the cpu cooling. Sounds like his cooler may be getting saturated with heat.

Nice upgrade. How much voltage to get 4.4 on your 5960X ?
 

Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
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Tech support conversation with intel..
"Intel: Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are now chatting with 'Daniel'
Guest: TJ max , Tcase for 3960x
Daniel: Hello. Thank you for using the Intel Customer Chat Support service. We are glad to be of service. How may I help you?
Guest: Can you explain to me the temperature limits for my processor ?
Daniel: I can tell the normal operating temperature is 66.8°C and can go up to 100 degrees and eventually will shut down to prevent damage to the processor
Guest: At what temperature do i start degrading my processor ?
Daniel: there is no such temperature, processors do not degrade since they are designed to work at high temperatures."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/353195-28-tcase-processor-degradation
 
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