Question 5900x or 12700k (or something else?)

[GodisanAtheist]

Ok, been a long time and I'm out of the CPU loop a bit. My current rig is in my signature.

Its time to refresh my core components. I have a 3080 10g in the mail (and presumably it works) so I'd like to pair it with a CPU that is up to the task and has some staying power.

I'll be sticking with my craptastic DDR4 3000 RAM for the time being (DDR5 is too pricey and Im not interested in throwing more money behind RAM for the 5-10% performance it will bring me).

Which of the listed parts makes the most sense? What should I look for in terms of used prices (USD) given the next gen is around the corner?

Given I'm looking to more or less just use the rig for gaming, listening to music, surfing, etc is there something else I should consider? The reason these 12 core processors call to me is I felt like I went too lean on my 6600k which ended up lasting me 6 years, I'd like to overspec a bit on a processor in the event that it's another 6 years before a new PC is on the docket.

Thoughts? Should I just check out another thread around here that's already talking about the same thing?

 

[tamz_msc]

Since you'll be keeping your new setup for a long time it doesn't make sense to skimp on parts and reuse current components that would only handicap your new build. I would wait for Zen 4 and Raptor Lake to drop. A decent kit of DDR5 like this is only $50-60 more than a decent kit of 32 GB DDR4. So it is a no-brainer to go for DDR5 in a current "future proof" build, unless you're strictly looking for low-end parts on a tight budget.

 

[coercitiv]

5800X3D. You'll get the most gaming performance this way, and it will care less about your 3000 MT/s RAM. The 12700K would be my second choice, especially if paired with faster memory (even if still DDR4). The 5900X would place on 3rd place, it's a fine CPU that would be perfect for somebody with more computation performance needs and gaming on the side, but I doubt it will ever pull ahead of the other 2 in gaming (even in 6 years). All of them are good CPUs.

You should wait at least 1 week before upgrading, the Zen4 launch will likely shake AM4 prices a bit more. Waiting for Raptor Lake (another month) is debatable, there may be something interesting in there with 13600K and 13700K but I guess you won't like the idea of 6P+8E and going for 8P+8E in 13700K will cost even more than the 12700K while also requiring (as in asking for) that memory upgrade.

My final piece of advice, upgrade your RAM to 32GB as well. If you don't care for faster RAM that's fine (especially if you go 5800X3D), but take that memory pool to 32GB. Keep your eye out for a good deal, I'm sure it will pop out.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

If you aren't willing to wait, the 3D definitely makes the most sense. You can try a $10 AM4 adapter kit with your H50, but now is a good time to replace it. Good X570 boards abound for relatively cheap, but 6yrs is a long time. So if you don't want the potential small hassle of replacing the fan later, avoid those models.

Getting 3200 or 3466 out of your ram kit should be very doable, even if it is budget stuff.

Waiting a bit is good advice too. Forum goers that upgrade will be selling off their combos soon.

 

[Tech Junky]

12700k works great. I built my setup when they were released and it's up to the task.

The real question is in the details of what you plan on running on the system. There are pros and cons to both sides. If this just daily duties either is a good option. If you think you'll want to tinker a bit the AMD has some quirks that are enticing but the price tag isn't worth it if you don't plan on using them. For me the AMD offers pcie bifurcation which is appealing for aic for storage to put multiple drives into a card and have them rin independently without using a mux card.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Good suggestions all around.

- This system is going to be primarily for gaming... and for system building on a budget (part of the fun of building a system is scrimping and getting the most bang for the least buck even if you can afford to buy the new hotness right away). I do a lot of patient gaming, so this isn't even necessarily to run today's games but to run yesterdays games with SSAA and all the bells and whistles.

- I am always wary of any kind of new tech. Its usually not much better than the old stuff its replacing (might stretch its legs in the future), can have undiscovered bugs or issues with the platform. I'd rather get current gen stuff on 40-50% off firesale before the next gen drops and lose the 15-20% on performance.

- 5800X3D does sort of sound like its up my alley, but all the same its relatively new and pricier even on the used market (likely thanks to AMD not really having something ready to usurp it) I'm seeing 5900X's sit around the $200-250 mark (seems like a good deal) and 12700K(and Kf) around the same price, but then the 5800X3D is $350 and up.

- I'll sit on any purchases for another week or two as recommended and see if we get deeper discounts on AM4 inventory new or there is a glut of used AM4 inventory.

Edit: Also, my understanding is that Intel is less sensitive to slower memory than AMD is, correct? Or is that outdated/incorrect info from early in the infinity fabric days?

 

[Tech Junky]

AMD is generally finicky when it comes to piecing together components.

Waiting never hurt anyone but, Intel best bang is still going to be 12700 / DDR4. There's added costs with DDR5 from the ram itself to the mobo itself being higher. I'd suggest the ASRock steel legend as it's stable and offers a lot of tech for the price.

The next big leap is chiplets and that's 2024. This next bump isn't as significant but more of a refinement of what's currently out.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

AMD is generally finicky when it comes to piecing together components.

Waiting never hurt anyone but, Intel best bang is still going to be 12700 / DDR4. There's added costs with DDR5 from the ram itself to the mobo itself being higher. I'd suggest the ASRock steel legend as it's stable and offers a lot of tech for the price.

The next big leap is chiplets and that's 2024. This next bump isn't as significant but more of a refinement of what's currently out.

-My current rig is so old that basically anything I get today is an auto 2-3x improvement across the board.

I admit I had dreams of going all AMD this round but a lucky ebay purchase of an NV card has sort of scrapped that idea and I'm tempted to just stick with Intel, especially given their 12700K is a solid gaming chip, supports DDR4 & 5 (I know different boards are involved), is an LGA set-up (nightmares of bent pins on old A64 processors), and seem to be much more plentiful for rather reasonable prices second hand (good number of chips in the $200-250 territory, which is a fair bit off new).

 

[coercitiv]

- 5800X3D does sort of sound like its up my alley, but all the same its relatively new and pricier even on the used market (likely thanks to AMD not really having something ready to usurp it) I'm seeing 5900X's sit around the $200-250 mark (seems like a good deal) and 12700K(and Kf) around the same price, but then the 5800X3D is $350 and up.

Edit: Also, my understanding is that Intel is less sensitive to slower memory than AMD is, correct? Or is that outdated/incorrect info from early in the infinity fabric days?

Yeah, I should add that my advice is somewhat biased by pricing in my area (EU). Out here the price delta between the three is not that significant. In terms of sensitivity to memory speed the 12700K should fare better than 5900X, but not better than 5800X3D.

If the price delta stays big after adding motherboards into the mix, the 12700K may still be a better value choice. Maybe it's also time you look into game benchmarks and compare based on your games of choice.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

-My current rig is so old that basically anything I get today is an auto 2-3x improvement across the board.

I admit I had dreams of going all AMD this round but a lucky ebay purchase of an NV card has sort of scrapped that idea and I'm tempted to just stick with Intel, especially given their 12700K is a solid gaming chip, supports DDR4 & 5 (I know different boards are involved), is an LGA set-up (nightmares of bent pins on old A64 processors), and seem to be much more plentiful for rather reasonable prices second hand (good number of chips in the $200-250 territory, which is a fair bit off new).

Where are you seeing those prices, completed Ebay auctions? $200 for a 12700K is an excellent deal.

Favoring Intel from past experiences is understandable. You will need a good board and cooler for the K don't cheese on those. And overclock your ram, it will help.

A few personal anecdotes: Bent pins isn't something I consider worth picking on AM4 about. I have seen plenty of Intel boards with bent pins, and it's harder to put bent skt pins straight than CPU pins. Speaking of which; Won't be long before we see posts about AM5 goof ups bending them just like Intel.

I keep reading posts about AM4 being finicky with hardware or having issues with XMP. I feel like asking what year it is. There were certainly a few growing pains with the 3&4 series, but 5 series is mature and super solid.

 

[Snakexor]

Good suggestions all around.

- This system is going to be primarily for gaming... and for system building on a budget (part of the fun of building a system is scrimping and getting the most bang for the least buck even if you can afford to buy the new hotness right away). I do a lot of patient gaming, so this isn't even necessarily to run today's games but to run yesterdays games with SSAA and all the bells and whistles.

- I am always wary of any kind of new tech. Its usually not much better than the old stuff its replacing (might stretch its legs in the future), can have undiscovered bugs or issues with the platform. I'd rather get current gen stuff on 40-50% off firesale before the next gen drops and lose the 15-20% on performance.

- 5800X3D does sort of sound like its up my alley, but all the same its relatively new and pricier even on the used market (likely thanks to AMD not really having something ready to usurp it) I'm seeing 5900X's sit around the $200-250 mark (seems like a good deal) and 12700K(and Kf) around the same price, but then the 5800X3D is $350 and up.

- I'll sit on any purchases for another week or two as recommended and see if we get deeper discounts on AM4 inventory new or there is a glut of used AM4 inventory.

Edit: Also, my understanding is that Intel is less sensitive to slower memory than AMD is, correct? Or is that outdated/incorrect info from early in the infinity fabric days?

I would get the 5800X3D after Zen4 is available. Then you will see the pricing on the X3D drop as it wont be the best gaming cpu from AMD anymore. This also mitigates the your slower RAM and needing to replace it with DDR5 or a faster DDR4 kit. I think you will be able to ride that out for quite some time with minimal investment. It also matches your GPU fairly well so the system should be fairly balanced.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Alright folks, found a used 5800x3d for $300 which seems like a solid discount off new. Paired it with a Gigabyte B550 Master board (I have a 2200G in a closet somewhere if I have to do a BIOS update) for $100 and it looks like I can call it a day on this build for the next 6 years.

I'll update when they arrive and are confirmed to be legit/functional parts.

Just rebuilt my sig rig from it's ancient no name (Diablotek, old bottom barrel Microcenter brand) mid tower case into a Corsair 5000D I snagged for $100 (it's huge) and Ive been hammering my current build with 3D Mark stress tests (it passes with flying colors).

Amped guys, I'm amped.

If all the parts work I got a $3000 2021 rig for $1000 in 2022.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Word

 

[DrMrLordX]

Btw not to be flippant about your upgrade, but I think a lot of low-to-midrange buyers should seriously be looking for discounted 5800X3D chips. That chip is going to be the bee's knees for semi-budget gamers for awhile. Some would cringe at the thought of a $300 CPU being "budget", but when you take the entire platform cost into account, it's really not that bad.

Video cards are still the budget-breaker.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm still a fan of the 5900X, for both gaming and DC work, where cores are important. Looking forward to the possibility of a 7900X3D.

Edit: or even, maybe, a 5900X3D. Hey, why not, give all of the 5800X3D owners (and 5900X alike) reason to upgrade!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Btw not to be flippant about your upgrade, but I think a lot of low-to-midrange buyers should seriously be looking for discounted 5800X3D chips. That chip is going to be the bee's knees for semi-budget gamers for awhile. Some would cringe at the thought of a $300 CPU being "budget", but when you take the entire platform cost into account, it's really not that bad.

Video cards are still the budget-breaker.

- Reviews for the 7xxx series dropped this morning and the 5800x3d is right up there with them in terms of gaming performance. Substantially "slower" (not that any of these things are particularly slow nowadays) for application performance, but neck and neck for gaming performance. It was definitely validating of the purchase.

Now the CPU and board have to actually show up and work, which is a whole different thing.

I'm still a fan of the 5900X, for both gaming and DC work, where cores are important. Looking forward to the possibility of a 7900X3D.

Edit: or even, maybe, a 5900X3D. Hey, why not, give all of the 5800X3D owners (and 5900X alike) reason to upgrade!

- Its honestly pretty hard to go wrong right now, the 5900x drops behind the 5800x3D but honestly not by much. However, I think that 8/16 is the new 4/8 when it comes to processor core and thread count in the sense that it will be the new "mainstream" for a long, long time.

I suspect a 5700 series processor up (or a 12700 on up) is sort of like buying the legendary 2700K from back in the day. It will be another 5-10 years before we get a truly generational level of performance improvement in gaming for either of those chips.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Better to go with the new Zen4 architecture since it has PCI5, DDR5, etc... Cost only $200 more and 15% faster and be future proof for a good 5 years plus. 7600X is the one I would get at $300 MSRP. You can always upgrade to the 7975X when the prices fall in the future years if you not happy with the power of the 7600X but I think it will work with 90% of the games out their perfectly! Most games depend on the GPU then the CPU!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Better to go with the new Zen4 architecture since it has PCI5, DDR5, etc... Cost only $200 more and 15% faster and be future proof for a good 5 years plus. 7600X is the one I would get at $300 MSRP. You can always upgrade to the 7975X when the prices fall in the future years if you not happy with the power of the 7600X but I think it will work with 90% of the games out their perfectly! Most games depend on the GPU then the CPU!

- I never, ever, ever go for the first gen of a new platform. There is just too much new stuff that I'd be happy to let the rest of the world QC for me.

The perks of AM4 is that its super cheap right now (tons of good deals on new and used inventory) and its a vetted, known quantity. No surprise bugs or incompatibilities or weirdness that there aren't a million different troubleshooting solutions to out there.

And frankly, for most people, its more than enough performance. Take that $200 that would have gone to an AM5 platform upgrade and put it towards a new GPU where it will have a far greater impact.

 

[Tech Junky]

another 5-10 years before we get a truly generational level of performance improvement in gaming for either of those chips

Not at the pace things are moving currently. The current PCIE 5 spec is still waiting on something to be slotted into it to take advantage of the speed doubling. Also, right around the corner there's a transition to chiplets on the CPU dies which opens doors to more options in 2024/5.

If you look at the progression from PCIE 3 > 5 it was only a couple of years in which speeds jumped



From ratification of 3 to implementation of 3 though was a delay as there was with every other version but, if you see the leap from 4 >> 5 was only 2 years. Leap to version 6 should be right around the corner as well doubling speeds again.

The issue comes to suppliers making devices capable of those speeds to take advantage of them. The same crap happens on the networking side where WIFI comes out with gig+ cards and there's no AP on the market to supply them with a signal for that kind of bandwidth. I've now got a dual connect AX411 card that combines 2.4/5 signals into a single pipe and does max out at 1.5gbps which is an improvement over traditional card options what weren't as consistent. The 6E/6ghz thing is another instance of putting the cart before the horse but, it's starting to catch on but, the enterprise customers that push supply lines are waiting it out for WIFI7 which doubles the bandwidth in 6Ghz to 320Mhz vs current 160mhz.

The point of this is Moore's Law of things doubling every 2 years is picking up speed.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The issue comes to suppliers making devices capable of those speeds to take advantage of them.

- I think that's the most relevant part of your post. PCI-E 4.0 devices now are backwards compatible with and do not lose a substantial amount of performance from running on PCI-E 3.0 and even 2.0 in many cases.

I suspect the same will be the case going forward.

In a very practical sense, the increase in speed available through the PCI-E bus isn't really going to make a huge difference for the end user for a good long while.

 

[Tech Junky]

It will on the data side faster than the GPU side. There are already gen5 adapters coming for M2 drives. On the AMD side with bifurcation on the CPU slotting multiple drives into a single card on x16 would make use of the bandwidth.

It all depends on how you want to use things.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Always go with the latest and greatests tech! Not only CPU is faster but the entire system is faster with more bus lanes and faster throughput speed too! DRR type is faster too! Have fast GPU but will limited it speed by motherboard’s PCIe(number of highway lanes) is not good for total, overall performance! Of course if you only have a limited budget go with a past generation refurbished PC. They are usually 50-60% off! Has warranty and some OEM refurbished have same new warranty.

 

[Tech Junky]

@Harry_Wild there are some deficits with 10/11th gen setups. Maybe the suggestion should be waiting for another drop on ADL when RPL come out in a month or so.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

It will on the data side faster than the GPU side. There are already gen5 adapters coming for M2 drives. On the AMD side with bifurcation on the CPU slotting multiple drives into a single card on x16 would make use of the bandwidth.

It all depends on how you want to use things.

- Right, this is going to be basically 100% pure gaming PC for me (with some dabbling in photoshop and other things) and the goal is to be as economical as possible (for sport, I can go buy a $5000 PC right now but what's the fun in that, I want to build something at the peak of the price/performance curve).

That said, PC gaming always has the added drag of backward compatibility (meaning the largest pool of customers are never on the latest and greatest hardware) and consoles (meaning the lead platform for nearly all games is already kinda outdated), both of which prevent all these fancy new techs from really being fully utilized outside of some very niche typically professional use scenarios (in many cases simply making an already very fast thing a little bit faster).

I see your point, but i think outside of prosumer and professional workloads much of the new technology that is rounding the corner is more of a "nice to have" than something that will materially affect most use case scenarios.

 

[Tech Junky]

It's an investment of sorts. If you hold them for a long period build a good foundation for a ~$1000 and add your GPU to it and upgrade it as time passes a couple of times.

With prices coming down on ADL since launch I suspect you could pull it off for $800 for the basics to get a working machine without a GPU.