58.68 percent in taxes coming your way

[Atheus]

Why?

We have full healthcare here, as you all know, but the top rate is 40%. There's 12% VAT on purchases, but if you're a very high earner you likely run your own business, and can therefore reclaim this tax. Health insurance is similarly cut for the self employed and small-business owners:

- you pay 'Class 2' NICs at a flat rate weekly amount of £2.40

- you also pay 'Class 4' NICs as a percentage of your taxable profits - you pay eight per cent on annual taxable profits between £5,715 and £43,875 and one per cent on any taxable profit over that amount

The article makes a big deal over enterpeneurs being hard hit - why not give them a break with this new legislation? Might help the economy AND improve heathcare.

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
The ER DOES equal Health Care. You get sick/injured, you go to the hospital, they have to treat you, whether you can pay or not. Period.

Yea but after you've been treated, you still have to pay at some point, right? You still get a bill?

You're talking about Health Insurance. Nobody is being denied Health Care in America. It is against the law.

Maybe not, but I have heard many cases of families forced onto the streets by medical bills, cancer patients sleeping on park benches waiting for chemo, etc etc. They might not actually have been denied care, but they have been denied 1st-world-quality care, and their lives have been screwed in other ways.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Sammy, any UHC we implement is going to do nothing but cause a rationing of healthcare for everyone. This is how it has worked in EVERY other country.

Rationing is also essential, according to former Democrat Senator Tom Daschle, who was one of the biggest advocates for Universal Healthcare before he got voted out and was chosen by Obama to be Secretary of Health until he bowed out because of tax problems. He blatantly states in his book Critical: What We Can Do About the Health Crisis that rationing (without using the word rationing but describing the process perfectly) would be a reality if government-run health care ever came to pass.

Sammy and other libs have the blinders on and refuse to look at facts. Rationing happens in every other country with UHC, many of the advocates of UHC have plainly stated that rationing is necessary for UHC to even marginally function, and yet they stubbornly keep on claiming that rationing would never, ever happen because Obama said so!

Go without insurance and see how American rationing works.

Rationing happens in any system, its just that we do it in the absolute least efficient way possible.

Hospitals are required by law to treat you if you are injured/sick and don't have insurance. You will not be tossed out of the ER bleeding and dying because you lack insurance coverage.

Over-sensationalize much? Try again.

I don't know why I'm bothering but .....

ER != Healthcare

I can't believe I have to explain this, but apparently the obvious is well...not so obvious to some.

The ER DOES equal Health Care. You get sick/injured, you go to the hospital, they have to treat you, whether you can pay or not. Period.

You're talking about Health Insurance. Nobody is being denied Health Care in America. It is against the law.

What you liberals are claiming as "Health Care" is that you want the hard-working, tax-paying American families to pay for you to see thirteen specialists if you stub your big toe.

So, you can go to the ER for a checkup? To get your prescriptions refilled when they're up? For follow up tests after injury/sickness? What you're calling "health care" does nothing for preventing anything. Its simply dealing with the consequences, which are either avoidable or more easily handled with some form of preventative care. Also, much less costly ...

You do realize your last line non-existent scenario is, if it was possible in the first place, because of for profit insurance companies requiring it? If I had a ear related problem I'd much rather go to the ENT directly but I can't unless my Primary Care Physician refers me there.

Yes, you can.

Report: 9 Made 2,700 ER Visits In 6 Years

(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report.

Uh, "Of the nine patients, eight have drug abuse problems, seven were diagnosed with mental health issues and three were homeless". Not going to the ER for anything like what I outlined above. Try again.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Yes, you can.

Report: 9 Made 2,700 ER Visits In 6 Years

(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report.

Uh, "Of the nine patients, eight have drug abuse problems, seven were diagnosed with mental health issues and three were homeless". Not going to the ER for anything like what I outlined above. Try again.

You're assuming that out of the 2700+ visits they made, that none of them were for check-ups, meds, test results, etc.

Try again.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Yes, you can.

Report: 9 Made 2,700 ER Visits In 6 Years

(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report.

Uh, "Of the nine patients, eight have drug abuse problems, seven were diagnosed with mental health issues and three were homeless". Not going to the ER for anything like what I outlined above. Try again.

You're assuming that out of the 2700+ visits they made, that none of them were for check-ups, meds, test results, etc.

Try again.

I'm making an educated guess ....

I'm fairly certain that the druggies were there "seeking" because thats what they do. They weren't there to get their prilosec refilled. You're being intellectually dishonest if you think its more likely they were going for yearly checkups/refills/results at a clip of 50 times per year each.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Yes, you can.

Report: 9 Made 2,700 ER Visits In 6 Years

(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report.

Uh, "Of the nine patients, eight have drug abuse problems, seven were diagnosed with mental health issues and three were homeless". Not going to the ER for anything like what I outlined above. Try again.

You're assuming that out of the 2700+ visits they made, that none of them were for check-ups, meds, test results, etc.

Try again.

I'm making an educated guess ....

I'm fairly certain that the druggies were there "seeking" because thats what they do. They weren't there to get their prilosec refilled. You're being intellectually dishonest if you think its more likely they were going for yearly checkups/refills/results at a clip of 50 times per year each.

Still assuming.

The fact of the matter is, those nine people who felt the necessity to go to the ER were able to 2700+ times and received health care treatment without health insurance and without having to pay for it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
-snip-
(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report. [/i]

At some point we really need to acknowledge that the hospital is 'milking' the sytem, likely Medicaid. No one is even claiming that anything in the current UHC even address this obvious problem.

People who show up at the ER with non-ER problems need to be referred to outpatient clinics (and can be handled by less expensive nurses or PA's). This obvious problem (solution really) is not addressed in UHC.

I see no reason a hospital's ER can't also have staff (nurses & PA's) available to treat non-ER problems if people how up, there is no reason they should charge enormous amounts simply because there is "ER" sign hanging on the wall. This is not addressed in UHC.

Retards who go to the ER for non-ER problems will not automatically become smarter simply because a UHC bill is passed. So, this problem is not addressed in UHC.

Fern

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
-snip-
(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report. [/i]

At some point we really need to acknowledge that the hospital is 'milking' the sytem, likely Medicaid. No one is even claiming that anything in the current UHC even address this obvious problem.

People who show up at the ER with non-ER problems need to be referred to outpatient clinics (and can be handles by less expensive nurses or PA's). This obvious problem (solution really) is not addressed in UHC.

I see no reason a hospital's ER can't also have staff (nurses 7 PA's) available to treat non-ER problems if people how up, there is no reason they should charge enormous amounts simply because there is "ER" sign hanging on the wall. This is not addressed in UHC.

Retards who go to the ER for non-ER problems will not automatically become smarter simply because a UHC bill is passed. So, this problem is not addressed in UHC.

Fern

I agree, but Pens and others were making the claims that the poor and destitute cannot get health care. I was merely proving the point that health care is available to all, even those who have no health insurance and/or no ability to pay.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Yes, you can.

Report: 9 Made 2,700 ER Visits In 6 Years

(AP) Nine people accounted for nearly 2,700 of the emergency room visits in Central Texas during the past six years at a cost of $3 million to taxpayers and others, according to a report.

Uh, "Of the nine patients, eight have drug abuse problems, seven were diagnosed with mental health issues and three were homeless". Not going to the ER for anything like what I outlined above. Try again.

You're assuming that out of the 2700+ visits they made, that none of them were for check-ups, meds, test results, etc.

Try again.

I'm making an educated guess ....

I'm fairly certain that the druggies were there "seeking" because thats what they do. They weren't there to get their prilosec refilled. You're being intellectually dishonest if you think its more likely they were going for yearly checkups/refills/results at a clip of 50 times per year each.

Still assuming.

The fact of the matter is, those nine people who felt the necessity to go to the ER were able to 2700+ times and received health care treatment without health insurance and without having to pay for it.

So are you but one of is making reasonable assumptions and the other is not.

And I'll stick with my logical guess over someone that thinks one can get proper healthcare strictly via the ER ...

In case you missed it, from your article "In addition to the nine, a confidential database of underinsured and uninsured patients culled from ICC's members also found 900 frequent users, people who were in the ER six or more times in three months. They had more than 2,000 preventable visits to Central Texas ERs in 2007". Gee sounds like great healthcare

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
-snip-
In case you missed it, from your article "In addition to the nine, a confidential database of underinsured and uninsured patients culled from ICC's members also found 900 frequent users, people who were in the ER six or more times in three months. They had more than 2,000 preventable visits to Central Texas ERs in 2007". Gee sounds like great healthcare

Well, the question to be addressed in the 1st place is why is that permitted?

If you don't belong in the ER when you have insurance, why are you allowed in when you don't?

How does this UHC proposal fix that? (And don't say because with HI will magically change their habits, there's no eveidence for that. Stupid is as stupid does)

In case where individual/specific problems like this have been identified, the thing to do is address them. Not slap a "UHC" label on a piece of expensive legislation hoping it will magically and inexplicably fix that problem.

Likewise with the claims that HI companies are doing busines unfairly. Fix those problems, a bill with "UHC" on it isn't gonna magically fix it.

Fern

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Pens1566
-snip-
In case you missed it, from your article "In addition to the nine, a confidential database of underinsured and uninsured patients culled from ICC's members also found 900 frequent users, people who were in the ER six or more times in three months. They had more than 2,000 preventable visits to Central Texas ERs in 2007". Gee sounds like great healthcare

Well, the question to be addressed in the 1st place is why is that permitted?

If you don't belong in the ER when you have insurance, why are you allowed in when you don't?

How does this UHC proposal fix that? (And don't say because with HI will magically change their habits, there's no eveidence for that. Stupid is as stupid does)

In case where individual/specific problems like this have been identified, the thing to do is address them. Not slap a "UHC" label on a piece of expensive legislation hoping it will magically and inexplicably fix that problem.

Likewise with the claims that HI companies are doing busines unfairly. Fix those problems, a bill with "UHC" on it isn't gonna magically fix it.

Fern

I never said anything like that about ER and it has nothing to do with the discussion RPS and I were having. He claims that ER is healthcare, I dispute it. I never once mentioned anything about UHC ...

THX