57 Think Democrat Agenda "Extreme"

[manimal]

I really expected better of you, Fern. The stage was set for the housing bust and the market crash by the policies leading up to those events, by the deliberate actions of the Bush Admin, the Repub Congress, and the decidedly Repub FRB in the 2001-2007 timeframe. Like this-

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.html

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia2000.html

Neither belonged anywhere near as high as they were allowed and encouraged to go, and anybody with a lick of sense should realize that. The whole point of financial regulation by the govt and the FRB is to prevent the kind of *obviously* unsustainable peak and subsequent precipitous decline we've experienced. And the only reason it's come back from the fall is the massive bank bailout and stimulus, initiated by the same repubs who created the speculative peak in the first place.

Don't be blinded by your loyalties, because the recipients of it offer only deception and scorn in return.

Call it 6 years, OK? Does that make it feel better, or worse, realizing that they accomplished their ends in less time?

Well said!!


Who deregulated the savings and loan industry in the 80s?
Who deregulated the financial sector in the 90s?
Who pushed supply side pseudo economics?
Who pushed for two wars killing thousands in the name of ideology?
Who is now pushing for the privatization of Social Security?

Bubble economies ravage the middle classes and destroy upward mobility...

 

[Lemon law]

I very much wonder if the Woolfe statement of, " It just means that the POTUS and his party in power always get blamed for a bad economy. It happened to Bush and the GOP, and it's happening to Obama and the dems now. This has been consistently true in American political history.", is reliably true.

It certainly was not true during the great depression, when FDR and the dems failed to materially improve the economy after Hoover and the the GOP melted down the economy in 1929.

The point was and remains, the American people kept their eyes on the fact, that it was the GOP who melted down the economy and therefore the only remedy was to vote democratic. And for over two decades the GOP never elected a GOP president, they only occasionally elected a GOP senate, and it was not until 1994 that the GOP ever elected a GOP majority house. And once the GOP had a majority house, that only lasted 12 years, as the GOP showed the American people the folly of voting in a GOP dominated house.

If I were a GOP fan clubber, I would be peeing my pants right now at the prospect of a GOP dominated house and Senate after 11/2010.

Because then the GOP would not only have to gave a positive agenda, they would have to show the good governance they so failed to deliver during the GWB years.

And if the GOP fail to do so with a congressional majority after 11/2010, the GOP may teach the same lesson the American people learned in 1929, never never never vote GOP. But the American people are maybe slow learners after the clusterfuck of GWB, but give them another booster shot of GOP stupidity after 11/2010, and it may be the permanent end of the GOP.

 

[nick1985]

It's not that easy for you, buckaroo. I asked what you're *for*, and you offer platitudinous bunk, then try to turn the question around. No such luck.

If Righties are raving and foaming at the mouth wrt Obama's policies, they must know what they are, right? Otherwise they'd just be talking out their asses... Hmmm... maybe I've hit on something significant, like a wall of ignorance and total denial from Righties...

Big government, lots of spending. Government can fix a bad economy. We know his policies, its a rhetorical question.

 

[Jhhnn]

Big government, lots of spending. Government can fix a bad economy. We know his policies, its a rhetorical question.

And it's still not an answer to the question I offered, is it? Of course not.

Notice how your fellow ravers have abandoned this discussion? Gee... I wonder why... maybe it's because they've got nothin', and neither do you.

 

[IGBT]

let the liberals run with their kook agenda. when gas is 7.00 dollars a gallon and people can't afford to keep home utilities going, the voters will know what to do.

 

[OrByte]

let the liberals run with their kook agenda. when gas is 7.00 dollars a gallon and people can't afford to keep home utilities going, the voters will know what to do.

hey you sound like Dave!

 

[Patranus]

The point was and remains, the American people kept their eyes on the fact, that it was the GOP who melted down the economy and therefore the only remedy was to vote democratic.

Last time I checked things were rolling along just fine until people voted Democrat in 2006.

 

[Jhhnn]

Last time I checked things were rolling along just fine until people voted Democrat in 2006.

Who are you trying to fool, anyway? yourself?

We were teetering on the precipice of deregulated economic collapse before the election, like this-

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.html

Willful blindness is the last refuge of ideological zealots...

 

[ProfJohn]

8 years might be off, but there was not a democrat house during the deregulation spree.

But there were Democrats who blocked tougher regulation of Fannie and Freddie, one of the biggest reasons for the crash.


Look at what Barney Frank was saying then compared to what he is saying now.

 

[ProfJohn]

Ultimately meaningless. When the Republicans have their candidate for 2012, then poll independents. If the Republicans nominate some Tea Party nutter, then Obama wins. If they nominate a moderate, then Obama might have a fight. Of course, there really aren't any moderate Republicans left.

Have you looked at any of the polls being down now?

In head to head polls Obama is losing to nearly everyone!!!

Also keep in mind that the Republicans have a great track record of nomination winning candidates. They are not going to throw up some teaparty nut job and most likely not Sarah Palin either, sorry guys. More than likely it will be one of the popular and successful governors that are making headlines now.

 

[nick1985]

And it's still not an answer to the question I offered, is it? Of course not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioDKRmV8YxI

It is the answer, you are just too dense to see it

 

[Acanthus]

But there were Democrats who blocked tougher regulation of Fannie and Freddie, one of the biggest reasons for the crash.

Look at what Barney Frank was saying then compared to what he is saying now.

While I will say that is part of the problem, it certainly is not "one of the biggest."

I would argue that a toothless SEC and FTC, free trade, and uncontrolled growth of the finance industry were the precursors to our current and ongoing issues.

None of those things have been looked at or fixed.

 

[Jhhnn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioDKRmV8YxI

It is the answer, you are just too dense to see it

Gawd. Did you happen to notice that Ryan proposes no taxes whatsoever on capital gains and dividends, the source of income for the financial elite, thus shifting the burden completely down the scale onto everybody else?

Shee-it, Sherlock, he'd exempt nearly an eighth of all income, basically the share of the top .1% from taxation at all. Eminently fair and equitable, obviously.

He holds up southern europe to ridicule while completely ignoring entirely dissimilar results in Germany, Sweden, Denmark and much of the rest of europe, revealing his bias entirely.

It's just another stanza in the failed song of trickledown economics. Reagan campaigned on a balanced budget, and then what happened? GWB did the same, and we got more of the same. The trajectory Ryan references is more the making of your republican idols than anybody else.

I'll confess that I didn't finish watching it- I didn't have to. If you think Ryan's proposals will do anything other than crush the middle class, you're delusional.

 

[nick1985]

If you think Ryan's proposals will do anything other than crush the middle class, you're delusional.

Ha. If you think Obama's policies are doing anything but crushing the middle class, you're delusional.

 

[ebaycj]

We have a fucking communist racist radical community organizing crook in office who is pissing off the people every single day. GWB never was like that and put country first and believed in American exceptionalism.. Obama is totally opposite with a deep seated racist hatred for America, purposefully and willingly destroying our economy and country. Watch what he does, hear what he says, it's all painfully obvious and We The People are WIDE AWAKE now. I have always been awake to what he is as it was apparent before the primaries really got going.

Reminds me of the recent poll that said the majority wanted Bush back over what Obama is doing now.

He believed we were so exceptional that he spent all our money, then realized we weren't.

 

[SammyJr]

Have you looked at any of the polls being down now?

In head to head polls Obama is losing to nearly everyone!!!

Also keep in mind that the Republicans have a great track record of nomination winning candidates. They are not going to throw up some teaparty nut job and most likely not Sarah Palin either, sorry guys. More than likely it will be one of the popular and successful governors that are making headlines now.

We have 2 years until the elections. If the economy turns around in that time, then Obama will win. If not, he'll be in trouble. So if the Republicans win the House, look for them to stall any recovery in ordered to sabotage Obama's presidency.

 

[SammyJr]

Ha. If you think Obama's policies are doing anything but crushing the middle class, you're delusional.

Which policies in particular? (Predicting a whine about tax cuts for billionaires going away and health insurance.)

But I'll help you out: Obama, like Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan have done absolutely nothing to return manufacturing to American shores. They have all failed to address one sided free trade agreements. They have all failed to curtail abuse of the H1-B program and other foreign labor programs. They have all failed to require employers to verify employees immigration status and failed to offer harsh punishments for violators. They support development programs that teach workers in foreign nations skills necessary to work in IT, Engineering, develop factories, etc.

Essentially, they have dumped the American worker in the labor pool with hundreds of millions of foreigners who are willing to work for a small fraction of minimum wage and to add insult to injury, paying for the competition to be trained.

 

[werepossum]

Which policies in particular? (Predicting a whine about tax cuts for billionaires going away and health insurance.)

But I'll help you out: Obama, like Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan have done absolutely nothing to return manufacturing to American shores. They have all failed to address one sided free trade agreements. They have all failed to curtail abuse of the H1-B program and other foreign labor programs. They have all failed to require employers to verify employees immigration status and failed to offer harsh punishments for violators. They support development programs that teach workers in foreign nations skills necessary to work in IT, Engineering, develop factories, etc.

Essentially, they have dumped the American worker in the labor pool with hundreds of millions of foreigners who are willing to work for a small fraction of minimum wage and to add insult to injury, paying for the competition to be trained.

Agreed, there is currently no good party, but only a choice as to which is the lesser evil.

 

[ProfJohn]

We have 2 years until the elections. If the economy turns around in that time, then Obama will win. If not, he'll be in trouble. So if the Republicans win the House, look for them to stall any recovery in ordered to sabotage Obama's presidency.

The recovery has already been stalled. And it is Obama's policies that are stalling it. The biggest problem is probably all the uncertainty that exists in the markets.

Obamacare, cap & trade, the end of the Bush tax cuts etc all create an environment where companies are not sure what is going to happen in the next year or two so they are staying bunkered down in a recession state of mind and not hiring or expanding.

The same thing with consumers. Credit card is at a eight year low. People are paying off debt, but not taking on new ones because they are worried about what is going to happen in the next year or two.

 

[Acanthus]

Cap and trade wont pass. I am certain of it.

 

[SammyJr]

The recovery has already been stalled. And it is Obama's policies that are stalling it. The biggest problem is probably all the uncertainty that exists in the markets.

Obamacare, cap & trade, the end of the Bush tax cuts etc all create an environment where companies are not sure what is going to happen in the next year or two so they are staying bunkered down in a recession state of mind and not hiring or expanding.

The same thing with consumers. Credit card is at a eight year low. People are paying off debt, but not taking on new ones because they are worried about what is going to happen in the next year or two.

I think the companies are just waiting for the next bubble, Green energy, probably, which will employ some Americans until it bursts and/or is offshored. Bubbles temporarily cover up the fact that entire industries have left American soil - industries that used to employ millions. This is the new American economy. We start an industry, employ a few Americans, then ship it off to the third world while the wealthy make off like bandits.

If Obama plays his cards right, this bubble will be expanding in 2012.

Cap and trade will pass - it's part of the plan to jumpstart the Green energy bubble. Create a need.

If consumers truly are paying down debt instead of running the credit card, then they're smart. Too much debt and not enough savings makes you a slave.

 

[Fern]

I really expected better of you, Fern. The stage was set for the housing bust and the market crash by the policies leading up to those events, by the deliberate actions of the Bush Admin, the Repub Congress, and the decidedly Repub FRB in the 2001-2007 timeframe. Like this-
-snip-

Nah, the stage was set back under Clinton's term from what I can see.

I really blame whatever dumb@ss allowed Collateralized Debt Swaps ("CDS").

Boom and bust cycles in real estate? We've always had those, even moreso at the state/local level.

CDO's or MBS? (pick your term) There's nothing intrinsically wrong with those.

But CDS's are instrinsically problematic. Destined to fail in an epic way by their very design. They greatly amplified the R/E cycle and bust.

During Bush's term, Repubs held both houses of Congress (with slim majorites, particularly in the Senate) for only about 4-5 years. Domestic issues, particularly the economy are the domain of Congress. I think the President's role is far too often over emphasized here (and elsewhere). And as has been pointed out, the Repub tried to reign in Fannie & Freddie and were blocked by Frank and others, so there's plenty of blame to go around. I'm still looking for that bill (old failed proposed legislation seems a bit difficult to find), I wanna see what Obama voted against when he was a Senator and how that squares with his subsequent remarks.

Fern

 

[CitizenKain]

Incorrect, and as the poll shows they are pissed off at what he has done and says he wants to do. The American People have simply rejected his words, actions and radical agenda and laws. We The People do not want what he is pushing. Only the severe leftists think he hasn't gone too far, everybody else think he has and we want none of it and he MUST be stopped.

The majority of this nation has only one word to say to Obama - NO.

Would you stop using We The People? You aren't speaking for anyone but yourself and the turd in your pocket.

 

[Fern]

I think the companies are just waiting for the next bubble, Green energy, probably, which will employ some Americans until it bursts and/or is offshored. Bubbles temporarily cover up the fact that entire industries have left American soil - industries that used to employ millions. This is the new American economy. We start an industry, employ a few Americans, then ship it off to the third world while the wealthy make off like bandits.

If Obama plays his cards right, this bubble will be expanding in 2012.
-snip-

That would be great, but I'm not optimistic.

Alt/renewable/green energy has been the hottest sector for investment by venture capital and other private funding for about 10 years now. We've had plenty of money going into it for a good while.

IIRC, the BLM/FERC or whoever is responsible stopped issuing new permits for projects for a time. However, last year Obama announced a new fast-track permitting process. Unfortunately, as of June this year not one permit has been issued

http://earth2tech.com/2010/07/21/solar-biz-lack-of-permits-for-solar-on-federal-land-is-disturbing/

And we still have the problem of a lack of transmission infrastructure (power lines etc) to deliver any new sources of power. IIRC, that's why T Boone Pickens dropped his plans for the mega wind generated power project. This could have been addressed in the stimulous, but wasn't as far as I can tell.

I'd like to see a bubble, but am not optimistic.

Fern

 

[spidey07]

Would you stop using We The People? You aren't speaking for anyone but yourself and the turd in your pocket.

Guess you missed the poll. I speak for the majority of this nation who reject this presidency, his policies and his agenda.