540,000 miles and going strong!

[marvdmartian]

Not sure if it's a repost, but I thought this story was neat enough to share!

3:30 video

Yeah, I know that 500K miles anymore is just "breaking it in" for some cars......but the fact that this car is over 50 years old, and still going strong, shows us that some companies surely don't make 'em like that anymore!

My favorite parts were when she's talking about lifetime warranty parts.....and her security!

 

[kevman]

BOOO!! those are Torino hubcaps , not Comet hubcaps. what a loser.....

 

[Zenmervolt]

Wake me when it gets close to 3 million miles.

(I know, Irv is "only" at 2.6 million miles in the article, but that was a year or two ago and he's closer to his 3 million mile goal every day.)

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

Overall cars are more reliable now than in the past, so probably some now could hit these rates better. Most get rid of vehicles for other reasons though, including some baseless sense that since it's 10 years old it's about to fall apart. The oldest car anybody I know has is a 1990 or so volvo turbo 750 (I think that's it). It has over 300k miles and despite having the turbo replaced at some point is otherwise fine (not sure of other maint, but I think tranny and engine are still original). The car is driven hard, too.

 

[JaYp146]

My Dad's 1990 Toyota Camry has about 350k miles on it and still runs exceptionally well.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Overall cars are more reliable now than in the past, so probably some now could hit these rates better. Most get rid of vehicles for other reasons though, including some baseless sense that since it's 10 years old it's about to fall apart. The oldest car anybody I know has is a 1990 or so volvo turbo 750 (I think that's it). It has over 300k miles and despite having the turbo replaced at some point is otherwise fine (not sure of other maint, but I think tranny and engine are still original). The car is driven hard, too.

I don't know if it has any basis in fact, but the amount of computerized crap in cars these days makes me disinclined to believe that they would last as long as their older counterparts. After seeing how screwed up my desktop computer can get after six years and zero upgrades, I have little faith that the computers in modern cars would fair much better over a period of twenty to thirty years.

 

[evident]

props to her!!!! what a cute little old lady. so independent and proud of her car. kudos to her :thumbsup:

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Overall cars are more reliable now than in the past, so probably some now could hit these rates better. Most get rid of vehicles for other reasons though, including some baseless sense that since it's 10 years old it's about to fall apart. The oldest car anybody I know has is a 1990 or so volvo turbo 750 (I think that's it). It has over 300k miles and despite having the turbo replaced at some point is otherwise fine (not sure of other maint, but I think tranny and engine are still original). The car is driven hard, too.

I think one major difference is that cheap parts tend to stay cheap while expensive parts stay expensive. If a vehicle is made with cheap, easy to service parts, it's easier to keep around.

$1,000 car needs a $50 part, fix it.
$3,000 car needs a $1000 part, maybe I should replace it.

I tend to replace cars when it's cheaper to replace than to keep. My Grand Prix looked like it was going to nickle and dime me at about 250,000 miles, My Plymouth Champ needed a new transmission after an Olds 88 accelerated through it in a parking lot. And at 99,300, my Dakota isn't even close and I have no plans on getting rid of it in the next 10 years. In 6 years, it may get a friend (something like a classic car or a Miata). But no plans for retirement.

 

[ViviTheMage]

There are a few TDI's with well over a few million, not sure if they made them public like this though.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
I don't know if it has any basis in fact, but the amount of computerized crap in cars these days makes me disinclined to believe that they would last as long as their older counterparts. After seeing how screwed up my desktop computer can get after six years and zero upgrades, I have little faith that the computers in modern cars would fair much better over a period of twenty to thirty years.

Comparing a general-purpose home computer to a solid-state embedded microcontroller is very far from an apt comparison.

What screwed up your desktop computer was the addition of new software that placed an increased amount of demand on the existing hardware. The computers in cars are not subject to those issues. They are also not subject to requiring moving parts (e.g. fans, hard disks, optical drives, etc) in order to function. Additionally, much like a gaming console, the embedded systems in cars have their software written and optimized specifically for their hardware.

While it is possible for the computers in older cars to fail, this happens for mechanical reasons (cracked solder joints, water intrusion, etc) and is not properly considered to be a computer failure.

ZV

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
I don't know if it has any basis in fact, but the amount of computerized crap in cars these days makes me disinclined to believe that they would last as long as their older counterparts. After seeing how screwed up my desktop computer can get after six years and zero upgrades, I have little faith that the computers in modern cars would fair much better over a period of twenty to thirty years.

Comparing a general-purpose home computer to a solid-state embedded microcontroller is very far from an apt comparison.

What screwed up your desktop computer was the addition of new software that placed an increased amount of demand on the existing hardware. The computers in cars are not subject to those issues. They are also not subject to requiring moving parts (e.g. fans, hard disks, optical drives, etc) in order to function. Additionally, much like a gaming console, the embedded systems in cars have their software written and optimized specifically for their hardware.

While it is possible for the computers in older cars to fail, this happens for mechanical reasons (cracked solder joints, water intrusion, etc) and is not properly considered to be a computer failure.

ZV

Well you forgot to mention an important part which is the failure of capacitors. Since a lot of cars are sitting outside, they experience pretty big heat cycling which is an excellent way to kill the capacitors in all the little electronics much faster than in a computer, though a desktop computer might be running closer towards the edge due to it being less crucially important for things to still be working such as safety systems.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Comparing a general-purpose home computer to a solid-state embedded microcontroller is very far from an apt comparison.

What screwed up your desktop computer was the addition of new software that placed an increased amount of demand on the existing hardware. The computers in cars are not subject to those issues. They are also not subject to requiring moving parts (e.g. fans, hard disks, optical drives, etc) in order to function. Additionally, much like a gaming console, the embedded systems in cars have their software written and optimized specifically for their hardware.

While it is possible for the computers in older cars to fail, this happens for mechanical reasons (cracked solder joints, water intrusion, etc) and is not properly considered to be a computer failure.

ZV

Well you forgot to mention an important part which is the failure of capacitors. Since a lot of cars are sitting outside, they experience pretty big heat cycling which is an excellent way to kill the capacitors in all the little electronics much faster than in a computer, though a desktop computer might be running closer towards the edge due to it being less crucially important for things to still be working such as safety systems.

That would be a mechanical failure of the physical capacitor itself, not a software failure. It's unrelated to BeauJangle's initial comments about how "screwed up" his home computer got in 6 years.

You are also assuming use of electrolytic capacitors. The DME in my 1986 951, for example, uses film capacitors and silver mica capacitors, which are not affected by the same aging issues as electrolytic capacitors. Also, unlike electrolytic capacitors, film, silver mica, and ceramic capacitors are not polarized, which makes them better suited for automotive applications where a reverse current is a greater possibility than in a home computer.

ZV

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: fleabag

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Comparing a general-purpose home computer to a solid-state embedded microcontroller is very far from an apt comparison.

What screwed up your desktop computer was the addition of new software that placed an increased amount of demand on the existing hardware. The computers in cars are not subject to those issues. They are also not subject to requiring moving parts (e.g. fans, hard disks, optical drives, etc) in order to function. Additionally, much like a gaming console, the embedded systems in cars have their software written and optimized specifically for their hardware.

While it is possible for the computers in older cars to fail, this happens for mechanical reasons (cracked solder joints, water intrusion, etc) and is not properly considered to be a computer failure.

ZV

Well you forgot to mention an important part which is the failure of capacitors. Since a lot of cars are sitting outside, they experience pretty big heat cycling which is an excellent way to kill the capacitors in all the little electronics much faster than in a computer, though a desktop computer might be running closer towards the edge due to it being less crucially important for things to still be working such as safety systems.

That would be a mechanical failure of the physical capacitor itself, not a software failure. It's unrelated to BeauJangle's initial comments about how "screwed up" his home computer got in 6 years.

You are also assuming use of electrolytic capacitors. The DME in my 1986 951, for example, uses film capacitors and silver mica capacitors, which are not affected by the same aging issues as electrolytic capacitors. Also, unlike electrolytic capacitors, film, silver mica, and ceramic capacitors are not polarized, which makes them better suited for automotive applications where a reverse current is a greater possibility than in a home computer.

ZV

Maybe he is thinking about the motherboards that failed from 2001 where the capacitors were the primary cause. New cars from what I seen use electrolytic capacitors which in turn need to be replaced, this might explain why I've seen no electronic failure in early FI cars but a lot more failure such as in the 1990+ LS400.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: fleabag
Maybe he is thinking about the motherboards that failed from 2001 where the capacitors were the primary cause.

Considering that he said, "After seeing how screwed up my desktop computer can get after six years and zero upgrades", I'm going to say that no, it's very clear that he was not talking or thinking about the small portion of motherboards that used a bad batch of capacitors.

Originally posted by: fleabag
New cars from what I seen use electrolytic capacitors which in turn need to be replaced, this might explain why I've seen no electronic failure in early FI cars but a lot more failure such as in the 1990+ LS400.

I have never once seen an ECU failure that was not due to some form of mechanical degradation (e.g. cracked solder joints, water leaks into the ECU, etc) or manufacturing defect.

Theoretically I grant that it's possible for an ECU to "wear out"; even film and other non-electrolytic capacitors degrade with age, albeit very very slowly. However, such events, while technically possible, are simply not relevant to the discussion at had as they are no more common than simple mechanical failures; in fact they are less so. For this reason they are not legitimate reasons to expect that 20-30 year old ECUs will fail, which was BeauJangles' original contention.

ZV

 

[halik]

Hahaha I loved the part where she just pulls out the gun

 

[fleabag]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: fleabag
Maybe he is thinking about the motherboards that failed from 2001 where the capacitors were the primary cause.

Considering that he said, "After seeing how screwed up my desktop computer can get after six years and zero upgrades", I'm going to say that no, it's very clear that he was not talking or thinking about the small portion of motherboards that used a bad batch of capacitors.

Originally posted by: fleabag
New cars from what I seen use electrolytic capacitors which in turn need to be replaced, this might explain why I've seen no electronic failure in early FI cars but a lot more failure such as in the 1990+ LS400.

I have never once seen an ECU failure that was not due to some form of mechanical degradation (e.g. cracked solder joints, water leaks into the ECU, etc) or manufacturing defect.

Theoretically I grant that it's possible for an ECU to "wear out"; even film and other non-electrolytic capacitors degrade with age, albeit very very slowly. However, such events, while technically possible, are simply not relevant to the discussion at had as they are no more common than simple mechanical failures; in fact they are less so. For this reason they are not legitimate reasons to expect that 20-30 year old ECUs will fail, which was BeauJangles' original contention.

ZV

"manufacturing defect. " Aren't they ALL manufacturing defects? I mean shouldn't a gauge cluster last a lot more than 10 years? On the LS400, the gauge cluster goes out because the capacitors fail prematurely with the solution being the replacement of capacitors. On the transmission computer and ECU, capacitors have too been found to fail. I've also seen failed capacitors on Civic ECUs from the 90s, seen failed capacitors on dell motherboards pre 2001 and post 2001/2002. I'd say most non abuse failures of motherboards are attributed to bad capacitors.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I would say that cracked solder joints, PCBs, corroded connectors, that sort of thing would fall into an ECU failure. Afterall, how many people would pop open an ECU and try to repair it? The more complex the computer, the harder it is to repair.

 

[exdeath]

Computers in cars are not very complex at all. Though as a programmer/engineer I may be biased

The computer in my 2003 uses a 16 bit Intel 8061 @ 16 MHz.

http://members.fortunecity.com/cooley/eec-v.html

Cracked boards, bad solder joints, corrosion, etc. are exceedingly rare in modern embedded systems, and most everything now is surface mounted and epoxy sealed and encased in a moisture proof aluminum housing with foam or rubber o rings.

Embedded systems also have MUCH higher quality control standards and better components, as they have life cycles of many decades of reliable and seamless operation without maintenance. Not the disposable 6 month product cycles you have with PC components.

In terms of a car computer, environmental temperature cycles are not a factor compared to the heat from the normal operation of the vehicle. Injector drivers (the heat sunk MOSFETs you can barely see on the edges) get HOT.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I would say that cracked solder joints, PCBs, corroded connectors, that sort of thing would fall into an ECU failure. Afterall, how many people would pop open an ECU and try to repair it? The more complex the computer, the harder it is to repair.

We can argue semantics all we like, but the fact remains that such failures are not the type of failures that BeauJangles was talking about. He was referring to the performance issues that happen on desktop computers due to software bloat and registry clutter. These are simply not issues that affect embedded systems which has been my point all along.

Issues like capacitor failure are so staggeringly rare across the industry that they simply do not represent any more of a failure point than the mechanical parts in older engines. Yes certain cars have had isolated issues due to bad batches (I'll take fleabag's word on the LS 400 issue, I've not heard of it) but if his concerns were remotely legitimate we would be seeing massive numbers of cars out there with failed ECUs because EFI has been in common use since the 1980's. The fact is that we don't see that. No automotive buying guide for used cars generically cautions a buying a 10-15 year old car because the ECU is likely to fail from worn out capacitors because it's such a small issue as to be irrelevant.

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

Agree with ZV that a solid state ECU is likely to have great longevity. Think about a simple calculator or something like that that has been alive for decades, these things are created, never changed, and created to work under very strict and constant conditions. A computer gets sloppy and crappy over time from new software getting in there and bloating things. An ECU is more like a nintendo. A nintendo should function as well after 15 years as the day it was bought--unless something causes it to just completely up and die. But, unlike a computer with its hard drive and new software and registry updates, etc. it won't get slower and junked up over time.

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Agree with ZV that a solid state ECU is likely to have great longevity. Think about a simple calculator or something like that that has been alive for decades, these things are created, never changed, and created to work under very strict and constant conditions. A computer gets sloppy and crappy over time from new software getting in there and bloating things. An ECU is more like a nintendo. A nintendo should function as well after 15 years as the day it was bought--unless something causes it to just completely up and die. But, unlike a computer with its hard drive and new software and registry updates, etc. it won't get slower and junked up over time.

Not to mention you can just wipe the hard drive on the old computer and it will still function with a clean install, or LiveCD. At least that was the case with a PII 450 system I mucked about with a year or so ago.

I also have an alarm clock that was built in like '79 that still works perfectly. I like it because it has number buttons for inputting the time/alarm instead of holding different buttons to advance the time.

 

[zerocool84]

I don't know how many miles my 1969 Bug has but I'm sure it's been around. I'm the second owner and it still has original engine/tranny/body/frame.