5-star resale values [Imports dominate as usual]

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How many of those are actual imports and how many are manufactured or assembled here in the states?

It doesen't really matter, IMO.

Our laborers are just as competent as theirs, or can be at least. 😉 It's the design and engineering that really matter, and that is where the Japanese excel.

Nope, that is not true, because the same guys engineering parts for Toyota are engineering parts for Ford and GM, trust me, thats what my company does. The real downfall is that the Japanese are so much more efficient at what they do. It doesn't cost them as much to build the exact same car as domestics. The domestics have to skimp to compete, and that is the reason they have a lower perceived, and actual, quality level.

I find that very hard to believe. The first part, not the second. It also doesen't exactly annhiliate my statement. Many companies outsource the manufacturing of a component. They still design it.

I am sure that Toyota outsources some parts from some of the same companies as Ford and GM, but I'm talking about major components like engines and transmissions, not side mirrors and trim. 😛

Besides, just because they're manufactured by the same company that makes parts for GM and Ford doesen't mean they're made to the same quality standards as Ford and GM parts.

What I said still stands. American mechanical engineering is, at first glance, sub-par in the automotive industry. Of course that doesen't hold true for all brands/models, but we seriously need to get our acts together. Whatever happened to "Designed/built in the USA" being a good thing?

Do you honestly believe that Honda makes all of it's engine parts in-house? Sure, they assemble them, but they outsource most of the parts. Everything from the valves to the alternator are outsourced. I bet the only parts Honda builds in house is the big stuff, blocks and heads. In fact, a Honda gets 90% of it's parts and materials from local suppliers.

http://www.nationjob.com/company/hond

No.

And that isn't what I'm saying.

Honda may not actually manufacture each component, but they still design it. That is really what counts.

Besides, the company that does actually manufacture the components is still going to have to be ISO 9002 certified in order to produce parts that live up to Honda's quality standards(speaking of precision parts here).

No, you did not read my first post. The OEMs send us a basic design with certain needs and wants. The supplier tunes it and really develops the final product. Chrsyler goes to Collins and Aikman saying, "We need a headlight that will fit this whole, design it." Toyota goes to Aisin saying, "We need a transmission that fits this space with these needs."

Those ISO certifications are useless, as most companies just skirt by.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How many of those are actual imports and how many are manufactured or assembled here in the states?

It doesen't really matter, IMO.

Our laborers are just as competent as theirs, or can be at least. 😉 It's the design and engineering that really matter, and that is where the Japanese excel.

Nope, that is not true, because the same guys engineering parts for Toyota are engineering parts for Ford and GM, trust me, thats what my company does. The real downfall is that the Japanese are so much more efficient at what they do. It doesn't cost them as much to build the exact same car as domestics. The domestics have to skimp to compete, and that is the reason they have a lower perceived, and actual, quality level.

I find that very hard to believe. The first part, not the second. It also doesen't exactly annhiliate my statement. Many companies outsource the manufacturing of a component. They still design it.

I am sure that Toyota outsources some parts from some of the same companies as Ford and GM, but I'm talking about major components like engines and transmissions, not side mirrors and trim. 😛

Besides, just because they're manufactured by the same company that makes parts for GM and Ford doesen't mean they're made to the same quality standards as Ford and GM parts.

What I said still stands. American mechanical engineering is, at first glance, sub-par in the automotive industry. Of course that doesen't hold true for all brands/models, but we seriously need to get our acts together. Whatever happened to "Designed/built in the USA" being a good thing?

Do you honestly believe that Honda makes all of it's engine parts in-house? Sure, they assemble them, but they outsource most of the parts. Everything from the valves to the alternator are outsourced. I bet the only parts Honda builds in house is the big stuff, blocks and heads. In fact, a Honda gets 90% of it's parts and materials from local suppliers.

http://www.nationjob.com/company/hond

No.

And that isn't what I'm saying.

Honda may not actually manufacture each component, but they still design it. That is really what counts.

Besides, the company that does actually manufacture the components is still going to have to be ISO 9002 certified in order to produce parts that live up to Honda's quality standards(speaking of precision parts here).

No, you did not read my first post. The OEMs send us a basic design with certain needs and wants. The supplier tunes it and really develops the final product. Chrsyler goes to Collins and Aikman saying, "We need a headlight that will fit this whole, design it." Toyota goes to Aisin saying, "We need a transmission that fits this space with these needs."

Those ISO certifications are useless, as most companies just skirt by.

Hmm....

Interesting.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82


if 'efficiency' is a euphemism for 'uaw pensions' then i fully agree

Sure, thats parts of it, but there is more to overhead than just that.[/quote]

its a huge part of it. uaw contracts are also preventing factories from being modernized, etc.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

The other thing also is the supplier's relationship with the auto manufactuer.

For example with GM and Ford, they have bidding competitions with companies to supply them parts based on GM/Fords design. Sounds good right? Not exactly. During the entire lifecycle of the product (generation of the car...like C5 Vette from 97 to 2004), they can change suppliers, since they only let the contract be for a few years. That's pretty bad for both sides. For the supplier's side, they don't know how long they will be making that part, so it would be a waste for them to spend a lot of money on creating the assembly/manufactuering tools/dies/etc.. for that part if some other company will end up making it three years later. So the supplier may charge more and may not offer the precise quality that is required. So the auto company (GM or whoever) ends up getting substandard quality products because the supplier won't invest all its money into creating that product.

This is one of the many reasons why US auto companies are suffering. They don't have the tight relationship with suppliers that Japanese companies have.

 

[BCYL]

hmm I'm surprise the Camry, Civic or Corolla aren't on the list...

 

[ultimatebob]

On the other hand, I bet that you can get a used Buick Century or Ford Taurus for a steal 🙂

 

[MikeMike]

yea, the 1 star values are about what were expected, big ass vans, and cheap imports dominate..

MIKE

 

[toant103]

all i see is Toyota. 🙂

 

[Kelvrick]

Wonder why the RL has such good resale?

 

[PoPPeR]

Originally posted by: BCYL
hmm I'm surprise the Camry, Civic or Corolla aren't on the list...

yeah that is surprising. My family bought our cousins 01 Civic EX last year, and "fair market value" was like 15k.

The cars I could have bought with that... sigh...

 

[Mill]

I'm sort of shocked that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't on it? Eh?

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Mill
I'm sort of shocked that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't on it? Eh?

Are you really that drunk? Lexus is on the list.

 

[thomsbrain]

mini S's practically go up in value when you buy them.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Mill
I'm sort of shocked that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't on it? Eh?

I wouldn't expect high-tech cars like Lexus, Acura, and Audi to hold their resale all that well. All of the gadgets (like navigation systems and trip computers) on those cars quickly become out of date, and drag down the long-term attractiveness of the car.

 

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How many of those are actual imports and how many are manufactured or assembled here in the states?

AFAIK, only the Accord, Odyssey, Frontier, Tundra, Tacoma and Sequoia are built here in the US.

Then you really can't call them imports. Well you can but it would be rather ignorant.

Who cares who assembles them? You can get 3 monkeys and a bunch of robots to assemble cars.

Who engineers them is what matters.

 

[UNCjigga]

Is that like the entire Toyota/Lexus lineup on that list? 😕

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How many of those are actual imports and how many are manufactured or assembled here in the states?

AFAIK, only the Accord, Odyssey, Frontier, Tundra, Tacoma and Sequoia are built here in the US.

Then you really can't call them imports. Well you can but it would be rather ignorant.

Who cares who assembles them? You can get 3 monkeys and a bunch of robots to assemble cars.

Who engineers them is what matters.

Engineering plays a part of it, but incoming and outgoing Quality Control factors in heavily as well.

 

[Mani]

How is the 3-series or M3 not on the list? Guess other offerings in the segment softened up demand?

Also, WTH is a Dodge Sprinter?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Mill
I'm sort of shocked that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't on it? Eh?

Are you really that drunk? Lexus is on the list.

LOL, I looked at it and didn't see them. Wasn't drunk either! Now I see they are, but I'm still shocked more German cars aren't on the list.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Mill
I'm sort of shocked that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't on it? Eh?

Are you really that drunk? Lexus is on the list.

LOL, I looked at it and didn't see them. Wasn't drunk either! Now I see they are, but I'm still shocked more German cars aren't on the list.

lol, 2 bottles of Saki........psh. (Actually I've never had it so I'll shut up) 😉

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Mill
I'm sort of shocked that BMW, Audi, and Lexus aren't on it? Eh?

Are you really that drunk? Lexus is on the list.

LOL, I looked at it and didn't see them. Wasn't drunk either! Now I see they are, but I'm still shocked more German cars aren't on the list.

lol, 2 bottles of Saki........psh. (Actually I've never had it so I'll shut up) 😉

At 9PM and I posted at 4:00 am. Sake is about 13% alcohol and I had one large and one small. I was sober by the time the Triple A got there!

 

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How many of those are actual imports and how many are manufactured or assembled here in the states?

AFAIK, only the Accord, Odyssey, Frontier, Tundra, Tacoma and Sequoia are built here in the US.

Then you really can't call them imports. Well you can but it would be rather ignorant.

Who cares who assembles them? You can get 3 monkeys and a bunch of robots to assemble cars.

Who engineers them is what matters.

Engineering plays a part of it, but incoming and outgoing Quality Control factors in heavily as well.

Of course, so what is the Domestic car producers excuse for crap quality?
Many foreign cars are produced here, why can't they make quality as superior as them?

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
How many of those are actual imports and how many are manufactured or assembled here in the states?

AFAIK, only the Accord, Odyssey, Frontier, Tundra, Tacoma and Sequoia are built here in the US.

Then you really can't call them imports. Well you can but it would be rather ignorant.

Who cares who assembles them? You can get 3 monkeys and a bunch of robots to assemble cars.

Who engineers them is what matters.

Engineering plays a part of it, but incoming and outgoing Quality Control factors in heavily as well.

Of course, so what is the Domestic car producers excuse for crap quality?
Many foreign cars are produced here, why can't they make quality as superior as them?

A friend of mine works at Ford and was the lead SQE (supplier quality engineer) on the Windstar. According to him, quality is just a disaster at Ford because of poor project management (when deadlines hit, quality goes out the window first) and a lack of rigor in their QA. I work at a company where quality engineers have the ability to stop ship a product at any time if they believe there is a significant quality risk. Either SQEs at Ford don't have that ability or they are significantly discouraged from using it. After talking with my buddy over there I can say safely that Quality is NOT Job One at Ford.