5.1 speaker advice?

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nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
2,668
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I'm looking to upgrade to spend at most $400-500 on a 5.1 speaker set up (speakers and woofer only). I'm hoping to get the best bang for my buck.

NewEgg currently have a couple good deals on the Energy Take 5.0 set up in which I would get the BIC-12 subwoofer I hear so much about or NewEgg has the Energy RC Micro 5.1 set up with Energy woofer. It seems like both speaker sets get good review with the RC Micro's appearing a little better?

My room is approximately 18' long by 13' wide by 9' tall. It's an open floor plan so the one side of the room has no wall and extends another 30 feet or so through the dining room to the kitchen.

Most interested in watching sports in surround sound, movies, listening to music, and xbox 360 in that order.

Edit: there's also a wife acceptance factor involved. She's not a big fan of big speakers which is why i'm looking at satellite/bookshelf. We also won't be cranking this up that loud most of the time.

Any suggestions would be great! I'm hoping to purchase shortly. Thanks!
 
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gregulator

Senior member
Apr 23, 2000
631
4
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I just built an HTPC and used Logitech Z506 speakers in a similar sized room. I don't need earth shattering loudness either, but get plenty from these speakers. At the very least, you can probably buy them from a Best Buy (I did for $100) and can return them if you don't like them (+1 for Brick and Mortar!!!).

<runs and hides from all the shoes being thrown by the audiophile snobs>
 
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velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
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nothing wrong with the logitech z506 for thos eon a tight budget. Had a few friends who used them for years :) One still does in his office and the other has moved them into the garage.

But at 500 buck budget you can do better. Just out of curiously what receiver do you have?

I havent heard the Energy but they do come pretty well recommended.

Another option might be the onkyo ones. newegg has the onkyo HT-S7409 on sale for 499. Again i havent heard them but have heard good reviews on them.

Cant comment on the energy setup but the onkyo uses a real receiver and real speaker connections so if you upgraded/changed you can reuse the receiver/speakers. Kind of nice over some setups ive seen
 
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nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
2,668
14
81
velillen said:
nothing wrong with the logitech z506 for thos eon a tight budget. Had a few friends who used them for years :) One still does in his office and the other has moved them into the garage.

But at 500 buck budget you can do better. Just out of curiously what receiver do you have?

I havent heard the Energy but they do come pretty well recommended.

Another option might be the onkyo ones. newegg has the onkyo HT-S7409 on sale for 499. Again i havent heard them but have heard good reviews on them.

Cant comment on the energy setup but the onkyo uses a real receiver and real speaker connections so if you upgraded/changed you can reuse the receiver/speakers. Kind of nice over some setups ive seen
Click to expand...

I have an older Pioneer vsx-1014 receiver that I was hoping would work for now. I don't need the receiver for video purposes (I hook video inputs directly to the TV), just audio.
 
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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
surround sound is all about proper setup.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html

If you can't set the speakers up with the proper angles, it is just not going to be worth buying all of the speakers. You will just end up with a bunch of speakers all making a bunch of sound.

In my open concept family room, I have been forced to stick with a darn good 2.1 setup for this reason. Putting the surround speakers in places that I could without people tripping on them or whatnot made for unacceptable sound quality. The sound field immediately improved on disabling the surround speakers. This little experiment told me that surround sound was just not going to work for my room and my particular setup.

I guess my point is, without proper setup, your money reaches much farther if you limit the number of speakers. I know you mentioned that your goal was surround sound, however, speakers are not the first place to look in order to facilitate a solution to your goal. Rather, analyzing your space using guidelines such as those listed above at Dolby's site is the first thing to consider when attempting to achieve your goal of surround sound.

Once you are capable of satisfying the basic principles outlined by Dolby, then you can consider the WAF and other factors like budget into furthering your position in terms of achieving your goal of surround sound. With any realistic budget, bass response will always be lacking since bass is much more expensive and difficult to reproduce within WAF and budget constraints than the rest of the frequency spectrum.

In open-concept, bass is even more difficult to reproduce on a budget. As an example, even though I have an extremely capable subwoofer that cost several times your budget, my open concept causes that subwoofer to have to energize over 4000 cubic feet of space since my family room is open to the entire first floor, the entire basement, and half of the top floor. Bass below 28Hz is just not able to be energized sufficiently at reference levels. That is not to say that you cannot be happy with less. For example, a subwoofer in tune with your budget can give you gratifying amounts of bass 40hz and higher, which might be enough for your use!

Idealy, you want to "audition" your speakers prior to buying, but in this economy, it is getting tougher and tougher to find dealers who demo speakers with you.

Just remember, every design has its compromise. A small speaker will naturally be limited in terms of output. Another set to check out is HSU ventriloquist and then add one of their subwoofers to round out your 500$ budget. The Energy system would probably suit you fine. It is tough to make speaker suggestions without knowing your angle on sound quality and what you expect in that regard.
 
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SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
nitsuj3580 said:
I have an older Pioneer vsx-1014 receiver that I was hoping would work for now. I don't need the receiver for video purposes (I hook video inputs directly to the TV), just audio.
Click to expand...

I'm running one of those with my computer, its still a decent receiver with plenty of power and pre-outs. The only glaring issue is the lack of HDMI.
 
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nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
2,668
14
81
Tiamat said:
surround sound is all about proper setup.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html

If you can't set the speakers up with the proper angles, it is just not going to be worth buying all of the speakers. You will just end up with a bunch of speakers all making a bunch of sound.
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with that link. Why exactly did you post it? Is the open floor plan going to be an issue even with proper setup which I was planning on doing?
 
Gintaras

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
nitsuj3580 said:
Edit: there's also a wife acceptance factor involved. She's not a big fan of big speakers which is why i'm looking at satellite/bookshelf. We also won't be cranking this up that loud most of the time.

Any suggestions would be great! I'm hoping to purchase shortly. Thanks!
Click to expand...



Gintaras said:
Only TV, video hooked all 5 speakers for sound.
Why 5 for 5.1?
I've 2 as a front - Polk Audio Monitor50 Series II, since there is no subwoofer, and receiver setup has on option: "No sub present", it gives another option(s): "Front speakers Large" and "Extra Bass"
I do have for bass - 4, 2 on each channel drivers, instead 1 on a sub and I'm getting better - softer and richer bass than I used to, when I had 5.1 - 4 small(2 front, 2 back) speakers and a subwoofer. And neighbor downstairs doesn't complain at all, if I make a little louder - sound is softer than used to be with a sub.
And before I had a sub that was downfiring, so, I had to lift from the floor even if was not that loud at all.
Click to expand...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2220618&highlight=

Gintaras said:
When asking advice about speakers, I think, someone should begin with:
-What music do they listen...
-What sound do they like, in low and high frequencies: Do they like bass: "floor pounding" and "body feel" bass instead of listening bass - "softer bass"? High Frequencies? Soft? or screeching to your ears?

What kind of place you do live in? A big room? or a small? Alone or neighbors present?
Any wall coverings for acoustics?

What's go first to you? music or sound?

I think, there should be guidelines set for such questions/advices.
Click to expand...
 
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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
nitsuj3580 said:
I'm familiar with that link. Why exactly did you post it? Is the open floor plan going to be an issue even with proper setup which I was planning on doing?
Click to expand...

If you can get the distance and angles correct with appropriate tweeter height, and there is no tripping/bumping into speakers issues, then you are good to go. I posted it to show that if your couch is up against the rear wall, it will be difficult to get the surround sound stage. Also, with an open side, I wasn't sure what your plans were going to be for the surround speaker corresponding to that open side.

In my case, the appropriate location for my right side surround is in the middle of a walk way between the family room and the basement staircase -- obviously quite a physical limitation. Without a picture of your space, I can only make generalized statements based on my own experiences with open-concept environments. Do you have a diagram as to how you intend to setup?

Hope this helps!


Another brand to look at that just exceeds your budget (when you add a subwoofer) are Orbs. I have never heard them, but some folks mention these in "WAF Small speaker" type threads on other forums... http://www.orbaudio.com/orboutlet1.aspx


BTW, in a technical sense, the open concept will be an issue, the question is if the issue is big enough for you - for general use probably not. Without left/right symmetry, the reflections of the speaker that does have walls will be stronger than the reflections of the speaker that has no wall. A modern reciever can help allieviate the apparent extra loudness of the walled-in speaker vs, the speaker without wall via electronic compensation.
 
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bigi

bigi

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2001
2,490
156
106
Try finding Athena Micra 6 (used?) Not many speaker sets can touch it below $500.
 
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nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
2,668
14
81
Tiamat said:
If you can get the distance and angles correct with appropriate tweeter height, and there is no tripping/bumping into speakers issues, then you are good to go. I posted it to show that if your couch is up against the rear wall, it will be difficult to get the surround sound stage. Also, with an open side, I wasn't sure what your plans were going to be for the surround speaker corresponding to that open side.

In my case, the appropriate location for my right side surround is in the middle of a walk way between the family room and the basement staircase -- obviously quite a physical limitation. Without a picture of your space, I can only make generalized statements based on my own experiences with open-concept environments. Do you have a diagram as to how you intend to setup?

Hope this helps!


Another brand to look at that just exceeds your budget (when you add a subwoofer) are Orbs. I have never heard them, but some folks mention these in "WAF Small speaker" type threads on other forums... http://www.orbaudio.com/orboutlet1.aspx


BTW, in a technical sense, the open concept will be an issue, the question is if the issue is big enough for you - for general use probably not. Without left/right symmetry, the reflections of the speaker that does have walls will be stronger than the reflections of the speaker that has no wall. A modern reciever can help allieviate the apparent extra loudness of the walled-in speaker vs, the speaker without wall via electronic compensation.
Click to expand...


Thanks! You're advice and other's I have read at AVSForums have me seriously considering just going with two nice towers for now. I have two Polk R30s at the moment that I use.

Unfortunately, my living room is completely open to the rest of the floor in my townhome and with my couch on the back wall, I don't think I'll get full advantage of 5.1 at the moment. Maybe in my next house!
 
SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
I was looking around at speakers and struck pay dirt.

Crutchfield has the older model Infinity Primus speakers on clearance w/ free shipping. They the the exact same driver/encloser build wise as the current Gen, the only difference is the front facia is silver instead of black.

The speakers are:

Bookshelf
P152 $75/ea - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P152BG/Infinity-Primus-P152.html
P162 $85/ea - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P162BG/Infinity-Primus-P162-Black-grille.html

Tower
P252 $150/ea - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P252BG/Infinity-Primus-P252-Black-grille.html
P362 $200/ea - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P362BG/Infinity-Primus-P362.html

Center
C250 $130/ea - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108PC250BG/Infinity-Primus-PC250-Black-grille.html
C350 $150/ea - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108PC350BG/Infinity-PC350-Black-grille.html

If you want to go towers and stay in your budget you have 3 decent options:
A pair of P362 from Crutchfield
A pair of Polk Monitor 70s from Newegg - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290209
A pair of Klipsch VF-36 Icons from Vanns - http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542880890

All 3 pair will run you $400 shipped and will sound pretty good without a sub.

Another option is a pair of P162s with a sub.

If you choose to get a center I'd spend the extra $20 on the C350.
 
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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
nitsuj3580 said:
Thanks! You're advice and other's I have read at AVSForums have me seriously considering just going with two nice towers for now. I have two Polk R30s at the moment that I use.

Unfortunately, my living room is completely open to the rest of the floor in my townhome and with my couch on the back wall, I don't think I'll get full advantage of 5.1 at the moment. Maybe in my next house!
Click to expand...

If you can pull the couch out even a couple feet, you may be able to set up 5.1.
 
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nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
2,668
14
81
Tiamat said:
If you can pull the couch out even a couple feet, you may be able to set up 5.1.
Click to expand...

Yeah, maybe someday. Unfortunately, the way my house is built, my big sectional can only go in one place. Pulling it out from the wall would look funny, make the living room smaller, and probably would fail the WAF :)

I'm going to check out the Infinitys and Polks.
 
sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,446
17,947
126
nitsuj3580 said:
Yeah, maybe someday. Unfortunately, the way my house is built, my big sectional can only go in one place. Pulling it out from the wall would look funny, make the living room smaller, and probably would fail the WAF :)

I'm going to check out the Infinitys and Polks.
Click to expand...

check out the Mirage nanosat I linked too. the mid range fires upward and given the small size the placement of surrounds maybe easier for your situation.
 
SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
You could use a pair of these as surrounds: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290026

They are only about 4" thick and are designed to be wall mounted or even edge mounted where the wall hits the ceiling. They don't go very low frequency wise but are fine for surround duty with just about any speakers including your current R30s. Also come in white.


sdifox said:
check out the Mirage nanosat I linked too. the mid range fires upward and given the small size the placement of surrounds maybe easier for your situation.
Click to expand...

He's going to run into a crossover issue with those and his current receiver. The Nanosats roll off around 110hz, maybe slightly higher. The crossovers for the vsx-1014 are 50hz, 80, 100, 150, and 200. This setting applies to all channels. Otherwise those are great small speakers.
 
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sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,446
17,947
126
SithSolo1 said:
You could use a pair of these as surrounds: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290026

They are only about 4" thick and are designed to be wall mounted or even edge mounted where the wall hits the ceiling. They don't go very low frequency wise but are fine for surround duty with just about any speakers including your current R30s. Also come in white.




He's going to run into a crossover issue with those and his current receiver. The Nanosats roll off around 110hz, maybe slightly higher. The crossovers for the vsx-1014 are 50hz, 80, 100, 150, and 200. This setting applies to all channels. Otherwise those are great small speakers.
Click to expand...

so use 100. not a big deal.
 
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