5.1 Audio System

[Elcs]

I am based on the UK mainland.

Grabbing a bargain HDTV and sharing it with a work colleague, she also purchased a rather expensive Audio System to go with it.

I looked at my 5 year old Creative Labs speaker system w/ Decoder? Box and thought.... I need a new set!!! Not wishing to spend as much money on a system as she did, I decided Anandtech would once again be my bastion for great advice.

My budget is £100 which is approximately $150. I know this is not a large amount of money by any stretch of the imagination however it got me my old Creative Labs speaker set and I have been most impressed by that ever since I got it.

My PC has both Digital Coax and Optical, the TV has 3 HDMI ports (1 for PC, one for TV Digi Box) and the Wii should be easy to hook up also.

I am no speaker connesuir (spelling mistake) but I have no idea whats good for the money.

Just browsing for my TV, this caught my eye. Im a fan of LG products and feel a natural attraction to some of their products.

The area in which it occupies is about 5 metres by 2 metres if that helps.

I would be grateful if someone could point me in the right direction. Thank you.

 

[sdifox]

wii is 2 channel, so no 5.1 needed. you are not making much sense, if she already bought a sound system, why are you buying another?

 

[Elcs]

She bought one for her son. I am looking for one for myself. It was only the fact that she'd got one that has made me think of my own system.

I am sorry if I did not make this clear. Its not something I have much expertise or knowledge in. I bought my current set of 5.1's because they had a little box and looked decent.

I am looking for a 5.1 speaker system to hook up to my PC, TV and Wii all at the same time and the ability to change which sound source plays at the touch of a button.

If there is any more information required, just ask.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Elcs
She bought one for her son. I am looking for one for myself. It was only the fact that she'd got one that has made me think of my own system.

I am sorry if I did not make this clear. Its not something I have much expertise or knowledge in. I bought my current set of 5.1's because they had a little box and looked decent.

I am looking for a 5.1 speaker system to hook up to my PC, TV and Wii all at the same time and the ability to change which sound source plays at the touch of a button.

If there is any more information required, just ask.

I am still trying to figure out the setup. Is the TV going to be in your place or hers?
At the price point you are looking at, I am doubtful you'll find anything worthwhile.

Does your set have multiple input and optical/coax digital in?

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: sdifox
wii is 2 channel, so no 5.1 needed.

Some Gamecube and Wii games support Dolby Pro-Logic II(x) - this will get you reasonable pseudo-surround-sound on a fair few games. I find it useful, anyways.

 

[Elcs]

I have asked mods to close this thread.

Thank you for your help. I am sticking with my current setup.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Is the converter box your creative set came with the "DDTS-100"

If so, you'd be in good shape for getting a more robust computer speaker setup while still using the decoder.

Normally I would suggest upping the budget to try to get something like the Logitech z-5500 set with built in decoders or getting one of the entry level Onkyo HTIB units.

I'm not sure how much those cost in the UK though.

If you give us more details on what you have now, we'd be able to give you better feedback on whether or not your budget would allow for a true upgrade or if you would just be making a lateral move.

FYI the DDTS-100 is very hard to find now in the US (not sure about the UK), but selling that might give you more funds if that's the decoder you have now.

For example, this is the only one I found on a very quick ebay search
http://cgi.ebay.com/CREATIVE-D...3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

[Elcs]

Hello YOyoYOhowsDAjello,

I currently own a Creative Labs Inspire 5.1 5500 Digital speaker set as shown here. Definately doesnt come with the decoder box you mention. This is not exactly the same set as I had, a model lower in the group but the stuff looks identical

At this moment in time, the Decoder is hooked up to my PC via Digital Coax, my TV Digibox via Optical and my Wii via analogue. However, I have a new Television Set coming on Monday.

Each speaker itself plugs into the back of the Subwoofer which in turn plugs into the Decoder via 3 cables. The power is plugged into the Subwoofer.

Position-wise, my two front L & R sit on top of my TV at the far ends, center at the bottom of my TV in the centre and the surrounds at ear level 90 degrees to my L and my R respectively. The R surround speaker is about 20cm or 8" further away than the L surround speaker although this can be corrected via PC software or me doing some DIY.

I do believe I have located a source in the UK where I can get the Logitech Z-5500's for my £100 or $150 budget although would that constitue as a decent upgrade?

After consideration, I saved myself £150 on the television by shopping around and special discounts, so I'll up my budget to £150 or the equivilent in USD, approx $275

Hopefully, this provides a bit more help. If pictures are required from where I sit then these can be provided.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Your rig link is broken so I can't tell if you have a soundcard or integrated sound that encodes DD or DTS
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...y=y&keyword1=rig+links
But if you don't, you've been missing out on true surround sound from your computer from sources not already encoded. That would be one big improvement if you're into gaming on your computer. If you're just watching movies with a DD or DTS track and are fine with stereo for everything else, then that's no big deal.

Something like the Logitech z-5500s would maintain your connectivity that you have now and actually expand on it by giving you a multichannel analog input which would work best with gaming on your computer (unless you have a DD or DTS encoding soundcard, then no big deal).
I have not seen or heard the Creative 5500 set, but based on the specifications, the Logitech set is much more robust and should do a better job for you. Most people that buy that set are very impressed with it when comparing it to other computer speaker systems they have used.
I'm not sure if that would really be a significant enough upgrade to justify spending the money though. Is there anywhere near you that has the z-5500 set that you could try out for a demo? I had some weaker computer speaker sets before getting the Logitech z-560 set (a 4.1 predecessor to the z-5500s) and was quite happy with that upgraded set for several years.

To go beyond that set for a decent step above the top level Logitech sets, you really need to look at a "real" speaker system. The most affordable units tend to come in "all in one" packages referred to as a "home theater in a box". Unfortunately basic HTIB units tend to have the same connectivity options that your current set has and lack that multichannel analog input that's good for computers that lack DD or DTS encoding. I have some information about HTIB units in the sticky thread if you want to take a look through that. I don't know what's available in the UK for your budget, but over here there are some HTIB units from Onkyo that are pretty decent at that budget, especially through ShopOnkyo, Onkyo's refurbished store.

 

[Elcs]

Thank you for your comprehensive reply.

I will fix my Rig Link and to elaborate, I have the Club 3D Theatron Agrippa DTS 7.1 which I do believe does DDL and DTS encoding via digital coax and optical. My DDL light on the Receiver automatically lights up when my PC plays any type of sound. To elaborate on that, in Age of Conan you can often hear the noise of flies around a corpse. This made me paranoid in the summer when my window was open and my L or R Surround Speaker starting making "fly noises". I played hunt the Wasp many nights.

I went around most of the stores in the City and the biggest Shopping Centre (Mall) in Europe (the Metro Centre) and was unable to find the Logitech Z-5500's in store, nevermind on display where I could hear for myself.

I could pick up the Z-5500's for £100 online if I am lucky if not, its £150. Its a toughie because as a general Tech Guy, I am thinking to myself "I paid £120ish for this set 5 years ago. You cant be telling me that at the same price point, there has been no tangible or worthwhile improvement. Can you?" I would never dispute this as you have far more experience in the field but it just sounds weird to me.

Hopefully, we can narrow down something to go by.

EDIT: Rig updated to show all latest components, added my LG 47LG5010 47" HDTV in there to save me forgetting to amend.

EDIT2: My Anandtech doesnt seem to like me. Ive copied and pasted the My Rig link into my profile and it doesnt want to work.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

With that audio card, you don't have to worry about a multichannel analog input, so the gaining surround sound in games in a non-issue since you're getting that already.

That takes one aspect of your upgrade to z-5500s away. Now it would solely be based on the sound quality and sound capabilities of the upgrade itself rather than getting true surround sound from all sources.

With that audio card, any receiver based system with enough inputs on it would work for you and give you the same surround effects that you're getting now.

Could you give us some examples of products that you did find when you were looking? You linked to that LG set in the OP. Did you get a chance to listen to that?

Something that's a little different in speaker sets is that in general, the technology is not progressing as fast as it is in virtually any other area (display devices, storage devices, computer processor speed, etc.). Speaker systems can certainly get a lot better, but it's not like a new CPU coming out that costs virtually the same amount of money to manufacture but is twice the performance. With speaker systems, you're looking at the quality of construction of the speaker cabinets, the quality of the speaker drivers themselves in the subwoofer and speakers, the quality of components used in the crossovers, how well everything was designed to work together, etc.

A lot of the limitations from computer speaker sets have to do with the compromises that have to be there due to component cost and the physical size parameters that they have to work with.

When you're looking to squeeze performance into a small satellite speaker vs. a "real" one
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Log%20vs%20Rock.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu......og%20vs%20Rock.JPG</a>
or a subwoofer that's "huge" for a computer speaker set vs. a "real" one
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Log_vs_SVS.JPG">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu......dom/Log_vs_SVS.JPG</a>
You run into problems with making those improvements. Small satellite / sub systems like virtually all computer speaker systems have some issues with them just due to size requirements and the compromises they have to make.

The Logitech's subwoofer would be much larger and more powerful than the one you have now. It should play louder and lower than your current one but it may be a bit "boomy". The satellite speakers may or may not be an improvement compared to the ones you have now. Although there are some general design goals and performance standards that are a good thing to strive for, sound is a pretty subjective thing. I have info on that in "auditioning" in the sticky thread.

Could you be more specific about what you're looking to improve with your system? If it's bass output specifically, I'd be much more confident in recommending the z-5500 set, especially if you can find them for £100.

Depending on the person, going from set A to set B may be an upgrade, a lateral move, or even a downgrade based on their own tastes. I have not been very impressed with the creative speaker sets I have heard, and there is definitely room for improvement for you. Depending on what you get though, you still may not be satisfied with your new set and the desire to upgrade again could be in your future.

I would recommend looking at "upgrade path" in the sticky thread as well. You may not have considered that method, but if I had to do it over again, that's the route I would have taken when I upgraded from my z-560 set. I ended up with a mediocre 7.1 system that still left me wanting more. When I finally ended up replacing it, I basically had to start the whole thing over again and there was nothing I wanted to keep using.

EDIT:

Here's the link you want to use
http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.aspx?rigid=34858

 

[Elcs]

Having looked around the stores, I found very few sets in the them and even fewer hooked up. Most ended up being Home Cinema Systems which include that DVD player etc. I am not sure how one of those systems would hook up to my PC and TV simultaneously and as is always a factor, quality is probably dubious.

As a result, the only set that I managed to listen to was a £3,000 Bose set which I thought "Hmm, sounds nice" until viewing the price tag and nearly having a heart attack. I did not manage to listen to the LG Set I linked to in my OP as I couldnt even find it in the stores.

Stores that offered "PC Speakers" (I would term my speakers and the Logitech's under the banner of PC Speakers) generally did not have them out on display and only offered some of the cheaper £50 Logitech speakers which do not include any receiver or look like they are on an equal level to my current set.

The Logitech Z-5500's that I found for £100 looks to be from a company which I would feel uncomfortable purchasing from online. Their goods also ship from Florida which adds to delays and costs, being caught by 17.5% VAT charges and various other taxes and handling charges. The cheapest sets actually coming out at around £170-180.

Im not a huge audiophile. I paid about £150 less for my TV than I expected to and budgeted for and I was rather expecting to find something for £100-£150 that would be an overall improvement over my current set, hitting better highs, better lows, better mids and clearer audio at almost all ranges, superior bass and compliment a new television.

There is nothing wrong with my system per-se and it is what I would term as adequate for my needs... however you could probably understand my uneducated concern that my system is several years old and why I would consider "upgrading" at this time.

I would prefer small satellites maybe up to 2x as big as the current ones. Perhaps if I said "upgrade the Front L and Front R speakers now and look at Sub/Receiver/C/LS/RS later"? Theory there would be Front L and Front R are the most used speakers in most (any?) setup.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Some of those DVD player systems will have multiple inputs in back, but you're right... most of those are pretty crappy. I think the target audience for those are people who don't really care about sound, but want something better than their integrated TV speakers and want "a surround sound".

Bose is not a good choice (not that you were going to buy it anyway). If you're interested at all in finding out why you shouldn't buy it even if you had the money, look up Bose in "things to avoid" in the sticky thread.

£100 did seem to cheap for the z-5500s. When there's a very good sale over here in the US, you can find them for $200-ish. $300-ish is the usual price around here.

I think the short version of your options are

1. Get the z-5500s (probably a reasonable upgrade from your current set)
2. Get one of those cheap HTIB sets (Might be equivalent in quality to your current set or could be better?)
3. Keep your system you have now and save up for something better down the road
4. Buy a receiver and two reasonable quality bookshelf speakers for now leaving yourself and upgrade path to making a complete system someday

If you were to buy a z-5500 or HTIB set, would you be able to buy it from somewhere is a return policy that would let you try it out and decide if it was a significant improvement?

The upgrade path is nice when you have a system that you can add to. With your current set, you basically can't use it at all as a starting point since it's all proprietary connections and specifications. If you were to make a system you could add to later, you wouldn't be able to use the creative set at all as part of the system.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I think the short version of your options are

1. Get the z-5500s (probably a reasonable upgrade from your current set)
2. Get one of those cheap HTIB sets (Might be equivalent in quality to your current set or could be better?)
3. Keep your system you have now and save up for something better down the road
4. Buy a receiver and two reasonable quality bookshelf speakers for now leaving yourself and upgrade path to making a complete system someday

If you were to buy a z-5500 or HTIB set, would you be able to buy it from somewhere is a return policy that would let you try it out and decide if it was a significant improvement?

The Z-5500's are turning out to be around £200 here which puts them at around $300ish, similar to your prices over there... over budget and I am not sure that if I stretch that far, whether it would be worth it even for the next 5 years (assuming these speakers last as long as my current set)

A cheap HTIB set sounds just like me picking up the Z-5500's. A dead end "upgrade" whic does not allow expandability.

The option of buying a Receiver and 2 bookshelf speakers.... I dont have space for bookshelf speakers and I lose my surround sound and subwoofer until I can afford to add them.

It seems like best advice is either to stay where I am and wait until I can afford something decent or to just go get a Z-5500 set to last me another 5 years.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Some HTIB sets would allow you to do upgrades, but there are a lot out there that wouldn't let you do that.

The main limiting factors are

-Is the receiver that comes with it decent
and
-Is there a subwoofer pre-out (vs. speaker wire output for a passive subwoofer)

Here in the US something like this
http://www.shoponkyo.com/detai...d=1&detail=1&ext_war=1
or
http://www.shoponkyo.com/detai...d=1&detail=1&ext_war=1
would be a good HTIB to start off with which would also allow for future upgrades.

 

[Elcs]

Cheapest I can get the Z-5500's for is about £187 delivered which should be under the $300ish but beyond my budget.

A quick Froogle reveals that I can pick up the top Onkyo (HT-S4100S) for £187 (say £200 inc delivery) and the 2nd Onkyo for £235ish.

Would I expect the first Onkyo you linked me to to be a superior product out of the box than 1) my system? and 2) the Z-5500's? I mean, if the answer to both of those questions is Yes or there is a very similarly priced system with similar/better upgrade choices down the line then please let me know.

From one of your previous posts, I felt that HTIB was a dead end path... however if theres something in the HTIB arena which is similar in price to the Z-5500 which would offer me a decent platform to upgrade from later down the line then Im getting rather excited.

I started this post thinking "Z-5500's are too expensive for non-upgrade, HTIB's are dead end and poor, going down the pick my own parts line would lose my surround sound for a long time so I'll stick with my current system"

EDIT: Need to do more research on the prices of that first Onkyo. Froogle's thrown me for a loop and I need to find it elsewhere.

EDIT2: Cannot find the Onkyo in the UK. I'll see if I can locate something similar based on what Ive "learned" so far

EDIT3:Here. Looks like I have found it and its way over budget.

EDIT: Onkyo HTS3105 Thats £190 which is about $285.

EDIT Update: AVS. Seems the Onkyo 3105 would be better than the Z-5500's. Im feeling like I am clutching straws.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I would expect the first system I mentioned to be roughly equivalent in quality to the z-5500s with the z-5500s having an edge in bass output but perhaps the Onkyo set being slightly better overall. The big difference would be the upgrades available down the road with the HTIB set. It should be a better system than your current set.

One of the strong points of these Onkyo HTIB sets is that the receivers are pretty solid. They'll be able to handle speaker upgrades (which is the weak point) and subwoofer upgrades as long as you get a model that has a powered subwoofer rather than a passive one.

Some HTIB sets (especially the super cheap ones with a DVD player integrated into the receiver unit) usually are a dead end path. The receiver is usually the culprit here, although having speakers with strange impedance values can also screw up your upgrade plans.

AVS is a great resource. I would recommend hanging out in there for a while and reading a lot about what different options are available to people. You may even be able to find some information aimed at UK buyer specifically. Do you know if there's an equivalent forum based in the UK?

Something you may not have considered yet is used equipment. Places like craigslist here in the US are often a great way to stretch your buck. A lot of people are upgrading their HT sets to allow for HDMI connections and other associated features. That means they're going to be selling their older units which would be more suited to an entry level system like you're looking for. Over half of the purchases I've made for my HT have been used, floor models, or refurbished.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I would expect the first system I mentioned to be roughly equivalent in quality to the z-5500s with the z-5500s having an edge in bass output but perhaps the Onkyo set being slightly better overall. The big difference would be the upgrades available down the road with the HTIB set. It should be a better system than your current set.

One of the strong points of these Onkyo HTIB sets is that the receivers are pretty solid. They'll be able to handle speaker upgrades (which is the weak point) and subwoofer upgrades as long as you get a model that has a powered subwoofer rather than a passive one.

Some HTIB sets (especially the super cheap ones with a DVD player integrated into the receiver unit) usually are a dead end path. The receiver is usually the culprit here, although having speakers with strange impedance values can also screw up your upgrade plans.

AVS is a great resource. I would recommend hanging out in there for a while and reading a lot about what different options are available to people. You may even be able to find some information aimed at UK buyer specifically. Do you know if there's an equivalent forum based in the UK?

Something you may not have considered yet is used equipment. Places like craigslist here in the US are often a great way to stretch your buck. A lot of people are upgrading their HT sets to allow for HDMI connections and other associated features. That means they're going to be selling their older units which would be more suited to an entry level system like you're looking for. Over half of the purchases I've made for my HT have been used, floor models, or refurbished.

The 4100 set from Onkyo doesnt seem to be available in the UK however the system lower down is price equivilent to the Z-5500's (the Onkyo 3105). I wonder how that would perform. I wouldnt mind a couple of other units to look for for price comparisons.

I have not located anything similar to AVS that revolves around the UK market. It seems LG does not get much love with Us markets and forums with its items not being mentioned often.

Used equipment - we do not have a Craiglist-style website and Ebay is not selling any of the Onkyo sets I am looking at. and I do not really know where else to look... mainly because I am still struggling to know what to look for.

I am really liking the look of the Onkyo HTS3105 set. It is out of budget but if its similar to the Z-5500 should (as said before) give me an upgrade to my old system and it gives me an upgrade path.

 

[Elcs]

Judging from the posts I have read, the Onkyo HTS3105 performs sort of similar to the Logitech Z-5500's, giving in some areas and taking in others.

The real deal clincher for me would be: Is the Onkyo HTS3105 going to offer me a reasonable platform on which to build up from as time goes by?

If so, then I do believe that my decision has been made.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Do you have a good link to information on the 3105's specifications?

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Do you have a good link to information on the 3105's specifications?

Here

and

Here

Lacks an HDMI port but Im not sure I even need one. My PC doesnt need to pass audio through HDMI and I can pass Optical straight from my Digibox to the Receiver.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Well it looks like the subwoofer on that set is passive, which is a bad thing. That means you'd basically have to upgrade both the receiver and the subwoofer at the same time if you wanted to upgrade one of those. That would leave you with the very basic speakers... which isn't much better than having to throw out the whole system and start over again. I think you have to move up one model level to get into the powered subwoofer level of HTIB.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Well it looks like the subwoofer on that set is passive, which is a bad thing. That means you'd basically have to upgrade both the receiver and the subwoofer at the same time if you wanted to upgrade one of those. That would leave you with the very basic speakers... which isn't much better than having to throw out the whole system and start over again. I think you have to move up one model level to get into the powered subwoofer level of HTIB.

And since they dont sell the 4100 series in the UK, it has to be the 5100 7.1 set for £315 or around $460.

Oh lordy, thats a toughie.

EDIT: If I did get the 5105 set, whats the deal with cables? I also need about 10m of cable on one of my rear speakers.. would that be ok?

If I did go down the route of the 5105, could I sell off the 2 of the 7.1 set that I wont use? Might give me extra money/leeway.

 

[Elcs]

Decided to go for it and went for the HTS5105 from Onkyo.

Hopefully the cabling will be appropriate for my needs but if it isnt, Im sure you'll tell me before it arrives or after I've DOH!'ed.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

If it's not long enough, you can just buy some speaker wire of your own to use.