4x strategy games: Is MoO 2 still the gold standard?

[Sulaco]

The original Master of Orion was my first ever grand strategy game, back in the DOS x386 days.

I've had MoO 2 since its release in like 1996, and since then have enjoyed my fair share of grand strategy since then, but outside of a few paradox titles and of course Civ (none being real 4x games), I've never found another 4x game as compelling.

So does anything else come close? I've got GalCiv 2 and enjoyed it quite a bit. I recently purchased GalCiv 3, and while I need to give it some more time, it doesn't grab me nearly as much as I hoped.
I also have Sword of the Stars I and II, but haven't actually played them yet. Are they worth it? I'd hate to sink two dozen hours into it before finding out it's horribly broken or unplayable.

Anything else out that there that comes close?

 

[Rhezuss]

Disclaimer: I'm no 4x expert and did not played much of this genre.

With that said, i'm currently having a blast with Endless Legend to a point where it became my new "one more turn" game.

It's in a fantasy/sci-fi theme where you build your own empire from scratch. You have everything you need in a 4s: 8 factions to choose from with all expansions, Exploration and Quests, Tech Tree, Customizable Units, Heroes that can be used on the field or as Governors in your Cities, Neutral small empires that you can crush or ally with.

On top of that add in some Turn-based combat like HOMM. Special ressources must be harvested in order to create more powerful units or to unlock temporary empire bonuses. You also have weather and seasons that affect your ressource incomes and other aspects like movement on the map.

It's also a beautiful game visually. The art direction is amazing and the gameplay is equally great. There's a tutorial that guide you through the basics and core concepts of the game and it takes about 45 minutes max.

Worth a look!

 

[Sulaco]

Hmmmm...never even heard of it. I might just give it a try. Thanks!

 

[QuantumPion]

I would say CivIV (BTS) is the best turn based 4x strategy game of all time. Age of Wonders III is also quite good. I can't think of any other in the space genre besides MOO & MOO2. I never liked GalCiv, I always thought they were shallow or hollow somehow. FYI a new are Master of Orion game is in the works, with some of the original developers.

 

[local]

I love SotS I, cannot stand SotS II. I also like Distant Worlds it is an order of magnitude more complex than MoO2 but you can turn on AI to take care of pretty much any function.

 

[shortylickens]

For me it sure is.

I also like Imperium Galactica 2.
And Galactic Civilizations 2.

Good times.

 

[ControlD]

I still consider Alpha Centauri to be the gold standard.

That being said, I have played and enjoyed a bunch of 4X games since then. Currently I am enjoying Sorcerer King even though it isn't quite as traditional as your typical 4X game. Honestly I just don't have the time required to play most of those games anymore. I'm hoping to find some more 4X-like games that allow for quicker playthroughs than is typical for the genre where the endgame becomes a chore.

 

[Maximilian]

I still consider Alpha Centauri to be the gold standard.

Same.

Nothing else has had the solid mechanics or personality of Alpha Centauri.

Also yeah Imperium Galactica 2 was awesome :thumbsup:

 

[JTsyo]

Same.

Nothing else has had the solid mechanics or personality of Alpha Centauri.

Also yeah Imperium Galactica 2 was awesome :thumbsup:

I bought GalCiv3 thinking I had played GalCiv2 when it was actually Imperium Galactica 2 that I had played.

 

[Possessed Freak]

FYI a new are Master of Orion game is in the works, with some of the original developers.

Being developed by a company who has had NO regard for player feedback until they can no longer ignore the imbalances they created. Color me skeptical at best.

 

[Zor Prime]

I played MOO/2 for thousands of hours ... the original and number 2. Turns out I actually prefer the original. I played the majority of the races before settling on Darlok's .. stealing everyone's tech while conducting political mayhem throughout the universe. My dad still plays the original. In DOS. Has an old PC just for it. Doesn't use Darlok's.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Being developed by a company who has had NO regard for player feedback until they can no longer ignore the imbalances they created. Color me skeptical at best.

What Piranha Games is making it?

 

[Vivendi]

Lol am I the only one who liked Moo3? Well, I hated the vanilla Moo3, but after patching it with fan released bug fixes and mods, I loved that game.

 

[Elcs]

SMAC:AC hands down, all day long.

Cheap on GoG.

 

[Sulaco]

Disclaimer: I'm no 4x expert and did not played much of this genre.

With that said, i'm currently having a blast with Endless Legend to a point where it became my new "one more turn" game.

It's in a fantasy/sci-fi theme where you build your own empire from scratch. You have everything you need in a 4s: 8 factions to choose from with all expansions, Exploration and Quests, Tech Tree, Customizable Units, Heroes that can be used on the field or as Governors in your Cities, Neutral small empires that you can crush or ally with.

On top of that add in some Turn-based combat like HOMM. Special ressources must be harvested in order to create more powerful units or to unlock temporary empire bonuses. You also have weather and seasons that affect your ressource incomes and other aspects like movement on the map.

It's also a beautiful game visually. The art direction is amazing and the gameplay is equally great. There's a tutorial that guide you through the basics and core concepts of the game and it takes about 45 minutes max.

Worth a look!

So this was on STEAM's Lunar Sale thing for just over $10, so I decided to pick it up.
Haven't put in any time with it yet really, but just a heads-up for any people like me who were on the fence about it before. :thumbsup:

 

[datalink7]

SMAC. Where I got my user name from actually.

 

[drnickriviera]

What Piranha Games is making it?

Though wargaming was doing it?

 

[TidusZ]

So this was on STEAM's Lunar Sale thing for just over $10, so I decided to pick it up.
Haven't put in any time with it yet really, but just a heads-up for any people like me who were on the fence about it before. :thumbsup:

You wont regret that purchase, easily my favorite 4X of all time and I've played a lot of them (from MOO2 and Civ 2 to current). The AI has come a long way since release and it's pretty solid now. It's not too bad to learn since the UI is really informative yet concise.

my steam review

+ Hands down the best UI in a 4x game to date.
+ Each playable faction is quite unique compared to most 4x where they just have a couple minor traits and a unique unit.
+ Heroes with items and skill tree as either generals or city governors
+ Zooming out changes the graphics and lets you see the important stuff easily
+ Customize units, less tedious than usual and very impactful
+ Tech tree is laid out nicely and every tech is impactful
+ In-game Marketplace for buying/selling heroes, units, resources, etc
+ Music is really good

If you like 4x this game should be at the top of your list. I prefer it over civilization.

 

[Pantoot]

So this was on STEAM's Lunar Sale thing for just over $10, so I decided to pick it up.
Haven't put in any time with it yet really, but just a heads-up for any people like me who were on the fence about it before. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the heads up.

50% chance I will never get to it, but I grabbed it.
Emperor edition was $13.xx so I grabbed that, didn't see what more it got me.

 

[Sulaco]

You wont regret that purchase, easily my favorite 4X of all time and I've played a lot of them (from MOO2 and Civ 2 to current). The AI has come a long way since release and it's pretty solid now. It's not too bad to learn since the UI is really informative yet concise.

my steam review

+ Hands down the best UI in a 4x game to date.
+ Each playable faction is quite unique compared to most 4x where they just have a couple minor traits and a unique unit.
+ Heroes with items and skill tree as either generals or city governors
+ Zooming out changes the graphics and lets you see the important stuff easily
+ Customize units, less tedious than usual and very impactful
+ Tech tree is laid out nicely and every tech is impactful
+ In-game Marketplace for buying/selling heroes, units, resources, etc
+ Music is really good

If you like 4x this game should be at the top of your list. I prefer it over civilization.

I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet, but I hope to start it maybe tonight.

My biggest question is how is the diplomacy in it? The diplomatic options and AI specifically? I've put around 200 hours into civ 5 and the diplomacy options are a joke compared to civ 4. And don't even get me started on how random and nonsensical the other civ AI is. I'm really looking for a grand strategy game where the diplomacy is top notch, and was a little more light hearted than a Paradox grand strategy game.

 

[XavierMace]

I wouldn't know, I don't play a race that can make peace. LOL.

 

[cbrunny]

Endless Legend FTW.

Diplomacy is... really only "ok" in EL. It works, but I find it very difficult to win a diplomacy victory, though I have done it against AI. It would essentially be impossible against an actual user, I think. I have never tried but it doesn't seem like it would be possible the way it is set up.

 

[Martimus]

I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet, but I hope to start it maybe tonight.

My biggest question is how is the diplomacy in it? The diplomatic options and AI specifically? I've put around 200 hours into civ 5 and the diplomacy options are a joke compared to civ 4. And don't even get me started on how random and nonsensical the other civ AI is. I'm really looking for a grand strategy game where the diplomacy is top notch, and was a little more light hearted than a Paradox grand strategy game.

Gal Civ has always been the gold standard for 4x diplomacy. It is unfortunate that no other developer puts any effort into diplomacy. Especially since Stardock has issues with releasing games well before they are finished. Still, if you want a game with great diplomatic options, your best bet is likely GC2, since GC3 took a minor step back in diplomatic options (still better than nearly all other 4x games though)

 

[Sulaco]

Gal Civ has always been the gold standard for 4x diplomacy. It is unfortunate that no other developer puts any effort into diplomacy. Especially since Stardock has issues with releasing games well before they are finished. Still, if you want a game with great diplomatic options, your best bet is likely GC2, since GC3 took a minor step back in diplomatic options (still better than nearly all other 4x games though)

Yeah, I have GalCiv 2 and 3.

Put a bunch of time into 2, but last played many years ago now. I'd forgotten how solid it was in the diplomatic department.

GalCiv 3 I recently picked up, and...I don't know...I'll have to give it more time, but the game simply feels incomplete. I'm especially peeved at the lackluster number of civs. Glad I got in on sale when I did. Hope the new expansion adds more, but I'm still not quite seeing what exactly it does "better" than GalCiv2 in all honesty.

 

[Martimus]

Yeah, I have GalCiv 2 and 3.

Put a bunch of time into 2, but last played many years ago now. I'd forgotten how solid it was in the diplomatic department.

GalCiv 3 I recently picked up, and...I don't know...I'll have to give it more time, but the game simply feels incomplete. I'm especially peeved at the lackluster number of civs. Glad I got in on sale when I did. Hope the new expansion adds more, but I'm still not quite seeing what exactly it does "better" than GalCiv2 in all honesty.

I completely agree that Gal Civ 2 is better in most ways than Gal Civ 3. The only things I like better in GC3 are that they have much larger maps, you can have more opposing factions at the same time, and the time between turns is much lower at the later parts of the game. The graphics are also better, and I like the ship yard mechanics, but galactic civilizations 2 was really the apex of Stardock games.