4k TVs are now obsolete. All Hail the 8k!

[tential]

4K is unnecessary (at the moment) for those who only watch TV and don't use their PC as a source. I find this hype for 4K in the TV sector stupid - there is almost no content for it. Add to that the human eye cannot resolve this pixel density depending on the viewing distance. In some cases it "might" make sense (watching high res youtube or photos or gaming), but in most use cases it doesn't.

I can barely contain myself right now. I want the vizio p70 so badly I'm willing to spend reserve money for it. That and a pair of GTX 980s makes 4K gaming a REALITY. But, with the issues the Vizio 70 inch P series has, I realize it's best to wait for the 2015 version which will actually use the correct color inputs and allow for the best display of picture quality possible and by then we'll hopefully hit a die shrink right? Right???

 

[ultimatebob]

With the exception of a few Netflix and Youtube videos (that I probably couldn't stream reliably on my 25 Mbps connection anyway), is anyone actually broadcasting 4K content now?

Call me silly, but I wanna wait on the content before I buy a TV to view it.

 

[boxleitnerb]

I can barely contain myself right now. I want the vizio p70 so badly I'm willing to spend reserve money for it. That and a pair of GTX 980s makes 4K gaming a REALITY. But, with the issues the Vizio 70 inch P series has, I realize it's best to wait for the 2015 version which will actually use the correct color inputs and allow for the best display of picture quality possible and by then we'll hopefully hit a die shrink right? Right???

Yes, gaming. But TV? No
But honestly: Even for games I would much prefer better graphics instead of just more pixels. Skyrim in 4K is still bad textures, flat surfaces, little polygons, bad lighting. Just an example. The performance hit for the image quality gained from 4K is just too severe. Personally I don't see much sense in it.

 

[swilli89]

With the exception of a few Netflix and Youtube videos (that I probably couldn't stream reliably on my 25 Mbps connection anyway), is anyone actually broadcasting 4K content now?

Call me silly, but I wanna wait on the content before I buy a TV to view it.

There is nothing. What people fail to realize is we don't even get good 720p or 1080p via cable, satellite or streams. Those numbers merely represent a number of scan lines; I'd prefer we get quality 1080p like that offered on blu ray before we start talking about 4k compressed, artifacting lossy video.

 

[MustISO]

I was at the store the other day and saw a few 4K TV's playing 4K content, it looked amazing. Those same TV's playing broadcast content looked like complete crap. I'd be much more impressed if the cable companies could actually offer non-compressed garbage. The TVs are fine if you've got the content but like others have said it's the cable companies that limit the potential of the current 1080 TV's.

 

[A5]

There is nothing. What people fail to realize is we don't even get good 720p or 1080p via cable, satellite or streams. Those numbers merely represent a number of scan lines; I'd prefer we get quality 1080p like that offered on blu ray before we start talking about 4k compressed, artifacting lossy video.

Yep. 12 Mbps MPEG-2 is going to look like garbage at pretty much any resolution. DTV and Dish do ~8 Mbps MPEG-4, which is why they look better than cable most of the time, but it still isn't great.

 

[swilli89]

Yep. 12 Mbps MPEG-2 is going to look like garbage at pretty much any resolution. DTV and Dish do ~8 Mbps MPEG-4, which is why they look better than cable most of the time, but it still isn't great.

Ah interesting, can you explain the difference between the two standards?

 

[A5]

Ah interesting, can you explain the difference between the two standards?

MPEG-4 is just a more advanced compression algorithm. It is generally considered to be twice as efficient as MPEG-2, so in this case 8 Mbps MPEG-4 is roughly equivalent to 16 Mbps MPEG-2.

The new HEVC standard is about twice as good again as MPEG-4 (so 4x better than MPEG-2) from an efficiency standpoint.

Some reference values:
DVD Video is ~10 Mbps MPEG-2
Blu-Ray Video can be up to 40 Mbps MPEG-4 (IIRC most disks hang out in the upper-20s/low-30s, though)
Netflix "SuperHD" is 6 Mbps MPEG-4
Netflix 4K is 15.6 Mbps HEVC (so this is probably the *best case* scenario of what we'll get on cable someday, barring a mass transition to IP-based video for live programming)

 

[swilli89]

MPEG-4 is just a more advanced compression algorithm. It is generally considered to be twice as efficient as MPEG-2, so in this case 8 Mbps MPEG-4 is roughly equivalent to 16 Mbps MPEG-2.

The new HEVC standard is about twice as good again as MPEG-4 (so 4x better than MPEG-2) from an efficiency standpoint.

Some reference values:
DVD Video is ~10 Mbps MPEG-2
Blu-Ray Video can be up to 40 Mbps MPEG-4 (IIRC most disks hang out in the upper-20s/low-30s, though)
Netflix "SuperHD" is 6 Mbps MPEG-4
Netflix 4K is 15.6 Mbps HEVC (so this is probably the *best case* scenario of what we'll get on cable someday, barring a mass transition to IP-based video for live programming)

Thanks! Great reference numbers. I just watched a copy of Baraka on blu ray which was rescanned at 8k from the original 70mm imax prints.

I watched this on a 64" Samsung F8500 from about 7 feet away and although I know it's hard to say for the future; but I was completely satisfied with the quality and resolution.

 

[JackBurton]

Thanks! Great reference numbers. I just watched a copy of Baraka on blu ray which was rescanned at 8k from the original 70mm imax prints.

I watched this on a 64" Samsung F8500 from about 7 feet away and although I know it's hard to say for the future; but I was completely satisfied with the quality and resolution.

I bought the Baraka BD when it first came out and viewed it on my ISF calibrated Pioneer Eilte 141. Beautiful colors and detail! I actually use it as one of my reference discs. HOWEVER, I watched a 4K source recently on Samsung's bleeding edge 84" 4K $40k LCD and let me tell you, it was in a league all to itself! Absolutely gorgeous!

 

[swilli89]

I bought the Baraka BD when it first came out and viewed it on my ISF calibrated Pioneer Eilte 141. Beautiful colors and detail! I actually use it as one of my reference discs. HOWEVER, I watched a 4K source recently on Samsung's bleeding edge 84" 4K $40k LCD and let me tell you, it was in a league all to itself! Absolutely gorgeous!

Dang that sounds awesome. Was it an lcd or oled? And yeah I think at 84" you will definitely notice the higher resolution. What was the source you were watching? Is there a thing such as a Blu Ray 4k?

 

[motsm]

Dang that sounds awesome. Was it an lcd or oled? And yeah I think at 84" you will definitely notice the higher resolution. What was the source you were watching? Is there a thing such as a Blu Ray 4k?

Not yet, but they have been announced to be released next year. Most movies won't see any real benefit however, as until just a couple years ago a 2K digital intermediate was tops, and it would take a lot of motivation for a studio to rework a DI. Completing new 4K transfers of older movies that were mastered on film could see very slight benefits, but at least this is a relatively simple process that studios will certainly be doing. Actual visual improvements depend on so many factors of the films production though, so many won't look any better than they do now.

As for the 8K TV, it's completely pointless outside of a tech demo, IMO.

 

[JackBurton]

Dang that sounds awesome. Was it an lcd or oled? And yeah I think at 84" you will definitely notice the higher resolution. What was the source you were watching? Is there a thing such as a Blu Ray 4k?

LCD (my mistake, it was an 85" display ). Not sure sure what source they were using (Magnolia design center). I believe it was just a Samsung 4K demo to show off their new panel.

 

[swilli89]

LCD (my mistake, it was an 85" display ). Not sure sure what source they were using (Magnolia design center). I believe it was just a Samsung 4K demo to show off their new panel.

I tried to find it to post it for you guys, but there is a featurette on the Blu Ray that shows the process that they used to scan in the Baraka 70mm reels. Took something like 60 seconds a frame and they had to build a special machine to do it.

 

[hawtdawg]

pssh, the 5.7 inch screen on my phone is 1440p. I'm not impressed.

 

[A5]

Not yet, but they have been announced to be released next year. Most movies won't see any real benefit however, as until just a couple years ago a 2K digital intermediate was tops, and it would take a lot of motivation for a studio to rework a DI. Completing new 4K transfers of older movies that were mastered on film could see very slight benefits, but at least this is a relatively simple process that studios will certainly be doing. Actual visual improvements depend on so many factors of the films production though, so many won't look any better than they do now.

As for the 8K TV, it's completely pointless outside of a tech demo, IMO.

NHK's (Japan's national broadcaster and a major force pushing this stuff) use case for 8K is "wall-size" televisions, so think 150+". 8K is their last planned step for planar 2D screens as well - they're working on something called "integral 3D" which is basically holograms.

The bandwidth required to get a "480p equivalent" image on that tech absolutely dwarfs the requirements for even 8K, though, so I think they have it on their roadmap as "2050 or later".