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4K Roku TV line from Best Buy

I thought that some 60 Hz sets automatically set the refresh rate to output 48 Hz or 24 Hz if 24p is turned on in a blu-ray player and the TV is set to Cinemotion (Sony) or Real Cinema (LG). Also when I had an LG TV that was 60 Hz that supported 24p, there was no judder when Real Cinema mode was turned on in the TV while playing a 24 fps blu-ray film but turning off Real Cinema mode, the judder returned even though it was not that bad. Are those features on those TV sets just an intelligent way for those sets to perform 3:2 pulldown to minimize judder or is it actually lowering the refresh rate to 48 Hz or 24 Hz when it detected a blu-ray filmed at 24 Hz being played? Can't some 60 Hz sets automatically lower there refresh rates to 48 or 24 Hz when detecting a 24 Hz source?
 
Dave3000 said:
Are those features on those TV sets just an intelligent way for those sets to perform 3:2 pulldown to minimize judder
Click to expand...

Yes. That is exactly what is happening. There are ways to blend the frames at 60hz to make pulldown not have much judder. MadVR can do it pretty nicely actually.

No modern TV let's you watch at 24hz or 48hz because it's terrible. I had an old plasma that would let you and the flickering at the low hz would drive me nuts.
 
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What about the TVs that advertise as 120 Hz for refresh rate. The LG and Vizio 4k 43" sets advertise as 120 Hz refresh rate at Best Buy's website. Also the LG set I used to own which did support 24p, when I connected it to my PC via HDMI, in the display properties in Windows it showed an optional setting for 24 Hz refresh rate and when I set it to that refresh rate, the mouse movement was choppier and kind of laggy, along with the image not being quite as solid as the 60 Hz setting. Was that set a true 24 Hz set or was that 24 Hz setting in Windows just an intelligent pulldown mode that required extra processing from the set?
 
Dave3000 said:
What about the TVs that advertise as 120 Hz for refresh rate. The LG and Vizio 4k 43" sets advertise as 120 Hz refresh rate at Best Buy's website. Also the LG set I used to own which did support 24p, when I connected it to my PC via HDMI, in the display properties in Windows it showed an optional setting for 24 Hz refresh rate and when I set it to that refresh rate, the mouse movement was choppier and kind of laggy, along with the image not being quite as solid as the 60 Hz setting. Was that set a true 24 Hz set or was that 24 Hz setting in Windows just an intelligent pulldown mode that required extra processing from the set?
Click to expand...

120 Hz is pointless.

You should be watching at the native frame rate with no generated frame rates. For games you have to or else you are going to have too much lag. The lag is bad enough that you'll know something is wrong.

Also, everyone at avsforum will tell you to turn off all the processing crap on modern TVs, especially the tech that tries to generate mid-frames. Think it is good, try watching a hockey game some time.
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
Also, everyone at avsforum will tell you to turn off all the processing crap on modern TVs, especially the tech that tries to generate mid-frames. Think it is good, try watching a hockey game some time.
Click to expand...

I can't stand the soap opera effect, it looks sooooo bad.

I may pick one of these up for my bedroom. I've been working on my bedroom home theater (basically a micro theater with a knockoff Bose cube system & a 75" DIY screen) & upgraded to a 1080p Benq HT2050 projector. It looks & sounds awesome, but oh my gosh, it heats up my room to like 90 degrees. I don't really care for LED television personally, but I've been pondering one for convenience. Plus Daredevil would be amazing in 4K!

$499 for a 50" 4K with 802.11ac is awfully tempting, and I'd imagine the PQ won't be horrific...part of my job is setting up digital displays for media & data purposes, and we pretty much exclusively use 4K televisions. I've used Seiki, HiSense, Vizio, etc. and they are all pretty dang good, whereas with 1080p sets, you get a huge range of quality, including some really crappy sets. Not that the budget 4K sets are reference-quality or anything, but they're definitely a step up from budget 1080p sets, generally-speaking, and it'd be nice just to have a single power cable to hide with wiremold going down the wall...
 
Picked up the 43" & 55". Initial thoughts:

1. Got the 43" for my kitchen. Removed an overhead cabinet, fit perfectly. Having the Roku inside is nice because all I had to do was put in a recessed outlet underneath for power, everything else is wireless. I might put my Kangaroo PC (4K for $99) on it.

2. My dad picked up the 55". I helped him set it up today. It's replacing his computer monitor (yup, huge). It's on sale right now for $50 off, so $599 for the 55" 4K Insignia Roku TV. It's used both as a TV & computer monitor, so that works out great.

3. Speakers are phenomenal. Best I've ever heard built into a TV. Can crank REALLY loud. I like the sound better than my previous Vizio soundbar. I wish it had a wireless sub with it, that's how good it is! Very impressive.

4. If you've ever used a Roku before, super easy operation. Boot it up, link it to your Roku account, run updates. They have channels for the inputs, which you can set to devices, so there's a "Computer" channel for the HDMI #1 input on my dad's PC. Only downside is that the remote is IR instead of RF, so it still needs some degree of pointing at the TV. I'd imagine they did that for compatibility with universal remotes & smart remotes.

5. Running the PC at 1080/60 on the 55". Text is fuzzy, looks like the pixels are small tilted squares (diamonds). Win7 PC is being replaced next week with a Win10 PC that has 4K support, so I'll revisit then. So far tho, for 1080p text from a computers, looks inferior to even the cheap Seiki's I've used in the past for digital displays. Also having some underscan issues after a PC reboot. Again, will revisit with replacement computer.

6. 4K looks fabulous. "Better Call Saul" looks glorious in 4K from Netflix, as does Youtube stuff. Reds are oversatured as always, still need to figure out how to tweak that, and also turned down the sharpness to 65. TV is set to Brighter & Enhanced Picture Mode (better support for 4K, it says). If you search for "4K Video" in the Youtube Roku app, you'll find this video, which is a great demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNJdPyoqt8U

Summary: Well worth the money. You get a great 4K TV with a built-in 4K-capable Roku for a really decent price. I do not like the soap opera effect at all & neither screen will be used for gaming, so 60hz is just fine. Very happy with both purchases :thumbsup:
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
120 Hz is pointless.
Click to expand...

No, it has a huge point. 120 divides perfectly by 24 but 60 doesn't. That is the point.

The TV makers via marketing have gotten people confused about 120hz vs frame interpolation (aka the soap opera effect). The latter is pure evil, but the former is a must have for me personally on a LED set. But I am very very picky about pulldown, I can tell if your TV is doing it just standing in front of it for a couple of minutes.
 
poofyhairguy said:
No, it has a huge point. 120 divides perfectly by 24 but 60 doesn't. That is the point.

The TV makers via marketing have gotten people confused about 120hz vs frame interpolation (aka the soap opera effect). The latter is pure evil, but the former is a must have for me personally on a LED set. But I am very very picky about pulldown, I can tell if your TV is doing it just standing in front of it for a couple of minutes.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything said here.
 
poofyhairguy said:
No, it has a huge point. 120 divides perfectly by 24 but 60 doesn't. That is the point.

The TV makers via marketing have gotten people confused about 120hz vs frame interpolation (aka the soap opera effect). The latter is pure evil, but the former is a must have for me personally on a LED set. But I am very very picky about pulldown, I can tell if your TV is doing it just standing in front of it for a couple of minutes.
Click to expand...

I need to check out a non-interpolated 120hz set, I've only ever had 60hz stuff.
 
poofyhairguy said:
The TV makers via marketing have gotten people confused about 120hz vs frame interpolation
Click to expand...
Yep, but they've *also* gotten people confused about real 120hz vs 120hz "effective". Any refresh with "effective" or some special feature name ("Clear Motion Rate" or some crap like that) is actually generally *double* the real panel refresh. So, bizarrely, you want something that claims 240hz refresh just to get proper 24hz playback.

F'in assholes.

edit - ah crap, it's even more confusing for Sony. There you're looking for "960". WTF!

Anyway, look at this chart for the big brands:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/fake...otion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion
 
Last edited:
s44 said:
Yep, but they've *also* gotten people confused about real 120hz vs 120hz "effective". Any refresh with "effective" or some special feature name ("Clear Motion Rate" or some crap like that) is actually generally *double* the real panel refresh. So, bizarrely, you want something that claims 240hz refresh just to get proper 24hz playback.

F'in assholes.

edit - ah crap, it's even more confusing for Sony. There you're looking for "960". WTF!

Anyway, look at this chart for the big brands:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/fake...otion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion
Click to expand...



Wow is all I can say. After I read that I went and hugged my "600hz" plasma.
 
Kaido said:
Picked up the 43" & 55". Initial thoughts:

1. Got the 43" for my kitchen. Removed an overhead cabinet, fit perfectly. Having the Roku inside is nice because all I had to do was put in a recessed outlet underneath for power, everything else is wireless. I might put my Kangaroo PC (4K for $99) on it.

2. My dad picked up the 55". I helped him set it up today. It's replacing his computer monitor (yup, huge). It's on sale right now for $50 off, so $599 for the 55" 4K Insignia Roku TV. It's used both as a TV & computer monitor, so that works out great.

3. Speakers are phenomenal. Best I've ever heard built into a TV. Can crank REALLY loud. I like the sound better than my previous Vizio soundbar. I wish it had a wireless sub with it, that's how good it is! Very impressive.

4. If you've ever used a Roku before, super easy operation. Boot it up, link it to your Roku account, run updates. They have channels for the inputs, which you can set to devices, so there's a "Computer" channel for the HDMI #1 input on my dad's PC. Only downside is that the remote is IR instead of RF, so it still needs some degree of pointing at the TV. I'd imagine they did that for compatibility with universal remotes & smart remotes.

5. Running the PC at 1080/60 on the 55". Text is fuzzy, looks like the pixels are small tilted squares (diamonds). Win7 PC is being replaced next week with a Win10 PC that has 4K support, so I'll revisit then. So far tho, for 1080p text from a computers, looks inferior to even the cheap Seiki's I've used in the past for digital displays. Also having some underscan issues after a PC reboot. Again, will revisit with replacement computer.

6. 4K looks fabulous. "Better Call Saul" looks glorious in 4K from Netflix, as does Youtube stuff. Reds are oversatured as always, still need to figure out how to tweak that, and also turned down the sharpness to 65. TV is set to Brighter & Enhanced Picture Mode (better support for 4K, it says). If you search for "4K Video" in the Youtube Roku app, you'll find this video, which is a great demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNJdPyoqt8U

Summary: Well worth the money. You get a great 4K TV with a built-in 4K-capable Roku for a really decent price. I do not like the soap opera effect at all & neither screen will be used for gaming, so 60hz is just fine. Very happy with both purchases :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

thanks for the review, im waiting for a sale on the 43" for the bedroom
 
mdram said:
thanks for the review, im waiting for a sale on the 43" for the bedroom
Click to expand...

I was surprised that the 55" was already $50 off...$599 for a 55" 4K with 4K Roku built-in made for a pretty decent deal! My cell phone camera doesn't do it justice, but 4K content on the Insignia has good color & really sharp clarity; for being a store-brand model, I was really impressed - the picture is better than my eyes can normally see, haha:

wFx5edv.jpg
 
Kaido said:
I was surprised that the 55" was already $50 off...$599 for a 55" 4K with 4K Roku built-in made for a pretty decent deal! My cell phone camera doesn't do it justice, but 4K content on the Insignia has good color & really sharp clarity; for being a store-brand model, I was really impressed - the picture is better than my eyes can normally see, haha:

wFx5edv.jpg
Click to expand...

Is the menu exactly like a rokus? I have a family member that this might be perfect for.
 
poofyhairguy said:
Is the menu exactly like a rokus? I have a family member that this might be perfect for.
Click to expand...

Yes, with the addition of channels for inputs. For example, you can assign HDMI #1 to be "Computer" so it shows up as the Computer channel & changes the input when you launch the channel - super convenient. Here's a picture of the same menu on the TCL model:

81j%2BN3sMygL._SL1500_.jpg


TCL originally came out with TV's that had built-in Rokus; according to a poster at Slickdeals, they have a few more features:

The higher end TCL's (can't believe I just typed that) have a RF remote that has a headphone jack, remote finder, and voice search. The lack of these features were the biggest complaints about previous generation Roku TV's.
Click to expand...

The 43" went in my kitchen & the 55" went to my dad as a computer screen, so I didn't need any of those features. I also suspect Best Buy dropped the 55" price to $599 to compete with the just-released TCL model at the same price:

http://www.amazon.com/TCL-55US5800-55-Inch-Ultra-Smart/dp/B01BGC39VM

They also have a 65" model for $999 coming out later this month:

http://www.amazon.com/TCL-65US5800-65-Inch-Ultra-Smart/dp/B01BGC39JY/

Typically, I hate buying Smart TV's because the functionality never gets updated, plus I like being able to upgrade Roku devices as new ones come out (my older Roku LE or whatever was too old to load the Amazon channel, for example - it was nice to just swap out boxes & get Prime streaming without having to upgrade TV's, you know?). Plus the new Roku 3 2015 model with Voice Search is way more stable than my prior Roku 3's, which I'd have to unplug once in awhile due to glitches or heat issues. And the 4K Roku 4 doesn't have very good reviews at all.

But with these Insignia/TCL models, you're getting a 4K TV with a 4K Roku built-in, and I don't think we're going to see much of anything beyond 4K for consumers for a long, long time, so I felt like it was a pretty safe bet (curved - meh, 3D - meh, 120Hz - not using these for gaming, so meh). That, and Roku has really great TV interface software. And at $399, while I don't want to call it a disposable price, if in a few years they come out with an 8K TV, I'm not going to be too broken up about upgrading again because for what, $100 a year if you split it up over 4 years, I think you pretty much get your money's worth 🙂
 
Thank you for the insight, that seems very easy to use.

I have a few family members that are caught between technological shifts (they literally called me crying when their local blockbuster closed) and who can't figure out the whole "changing input on the TV thing" well enough for them to really get the value out of a stand-alone Roku. This would allow them to get caught up on say Netflix shows without blocking their access to the old cable box. It is a perfect replacement for their TV with a DVD player built in.

I am glad seeing companies move to 4K on Smart TV if just for the menus, it makes the text so clear. Personally I am much more excited about the expanded color space of UHD vs its resolution, but clear text is something everyone can enjoy.
 
Whats up with VuDu and 4K?
Site claims only a few Vizio sets are supported. And the new 4K Roku.
But I'm finding it al comes down to HDCP 2.2 support.
If the TV supports HDCP 2.2, Vudu 4K does well despite the brand of TV.
2.0? No go.

One really has to be careful choosing a TV if 4K is the goal.
2.0 should be avoided. 2.2 is the current game in town.
That Samsung 2015 with only 2.0 support just won't cut it.
And how long will 2.2 stick around or until that too becomes obsolete?
Is it even worth buying a 2016 TV if one wants 4K UHD?
 
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