4k mini-pc

[icrf]

I'm looking for advice on what low-end x86 CPU/GPU (APU? SoC?) supports HDMI output of 3840×2160 (4k, UHD, whatever the marketers are calling it these days). I'm planning on using a Seiki SE39UY04 39-Inch 4K TV as my monitor. I realize it's only 30Hz and HDMI 1.4, but it's also only $500, and I'm curious how it will work.

I'm not worried about 3D GPU power, as I realize nothing cheap will drive that resolution. If I want to attempt mild gaming (Portal, Starcraft), I'd drop to 1080p anyway, for the refresh on the display. I'm coming from a Conroe E6600, so I'm guessing anything will be okay, CPU-wise. I just want something that will output 2D desktop applications at 2160p, and be able to decode 1080p H.264 (something I think everything does these days).

The long story is my house burned down and took all my gear, so I'm rebuilding in stages, trying to find things that will work okay for me now that can be repurposed later. A mini-pc along the lines of a NUC, Brix, or Chromebox is what I'm after, if possible. I'm not looking to spend a lot of money ($200-300), and I would like it to be low power / quiet so I could repurpose it as an HTPC/XBMC box later when I settle on a proper primary computer again.

Timing isn't immediate. If there's something that works better to be released in the next month or two, I'm okay with waiting. I'm just having a hard time finding display resolution support on a lot of these things, and then sometimes they differ via HDMI or DP.

Suggestions? Is this currently unfeasible?

 

[lehtv]

I'm no expert on this but for 3840×2160 @ 30hz you need an AMD Kaveri APU at minimum, currently $150 on newegg for the cheaper model. Plus an $85 ITX FM2+ motherboard.

HD4600 and Richland APU's don't support 4K at 30hz.

Alternatively you could get an R7 240 along with an Intel Celeron/Pentium and an LGA1155/1150 ITX board, which would be less expensive than buying Kaveri. But then you need a wide enough case to support the discrete card.

I think the Kaveri APUs are roughly the same speed as the R7 240/250. Both work for mild gaming on 1080p, in less demanding titles.

 

[piasabird]

When I purchased my Mini-ITX Gigabyte Z87N WIFI, the Manufacturer claimed it was 4K ready, but that is not why I purchased it. I am using a Haswell 4330 with HD4600 graphics. I don't have a 4k capable monitor. I am just using a Samsung LCD with a default of 1080p.

You might take a look at the WIKI for HDMI. Ver 4.1 or higher might be capable of 4K. For such high-end video you also need high-end HDMI 4.1 Cables. This may be one of the things that is holding back the next CPU Core from Intel.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Something like this supports 4k via HDMI, but it might be a little out of your price range. Add 8gb of memory and an SSD and you're already up to $650. That being said, it's got Iris Pro 5200, so it's no slouch graphically.

 

[icrf]

I was really hoping for something more along the lines of Kabini (Athlon 5350) or Haswell HD (Celeron 2955U), but I can't quite figure out what the GPU on those things actually supports. Shader counts, core counts, voltages, frequencies, TDP, all easy to find. I'm just not seeing max output resolution/refresh rates. If I'm only asking it to do 2D 30Hz, it doesn't seem like 3840×2160 is that out of range.

If I spent the money and bought something as fancy as an Iris Pro Brix, I'd really like it to be HDMI 2.0 and support 60Hz, but pretty much nothing is there yet (DisplayPort MST sounds finicky). My preference is definitely toward something pre-built and tiny as opposed to piecing together a mini-itx box, so a Brix is right up that alley.

Apologies on the delay. I mistakenly thought that subscribing to a thread would automatically send me an email if someone replied, but now I see that's an additional option. I'll keep better tabs.

 

[you2]

If you are patient there should be some interesting arm solutions by Q4. THere are three chipsets which should be out Q2-Q3 (such as RK3288, mt6595, ...). They are approx 30-40% faster (cpu) than current mini-pc but the gpu's have been beefed up to handle 4k. Haven't heard any rumours for snapdragon 800's or tegra 4/1k mini pc but there was a recent 1k developer board (kind of pricey). Most of these solutions should be in the area of 1/2 a mobile i3 (cpu speed) but very speed gpu (hard to compare to hd4000) and low power (below 10watt).

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I was really hoping for something more along the lines of Kabini (Athlon 5350) or Haswell HD (Celeron 2955U), but I can't quite figure out what the GPU on those things actually supports. Shader counts, core counts, voltages, frequencies, TDP, all easy to find. I'm just not seeing max output resolution/refresh rates. If I'm only asking it to do 2D 30Hz, it doesn't seem like 3840×2160 is that out of range.

If I spent the money and bought something as fancy as an Iris Pro Brix, I'd really like it to be HDMI 2.0 and support 60Hz, but pretty much nothing is there yet (DisplayPort MST sounds finicky). My preference is definitely toward something pre-built and tiny as opposed to piecing together a mini-itx box, so a Brix is right up that alley.

Apologies on the delay. I mistakenly thought that subscribing to a thread would automatically send me an email if someone replied, but now I see that's an additional option. I'll keep better tabs.

Well, if you wait for Broadwell the graphics are supposed to be significantly improved from Haswell. Not sure if they will be implementing HDMI 2.0 or not, but its possible.

 

[icrf]

I think I'd like to stay x86 if I'm going to try to use it as a desktop for at least the short term, so the ARM A17 SoC systems probably won't work.

Man, waiting until Q4 for Broadwell...I'm not sure I can do it. I do have a loaner laptop from the office that may hold me over. Judging from the comments here, I'm not sure it'll even do better, anyway: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7774/broadwell-nuc-roadmap-revealed

I really am surprised. I didn't think 2D 4K was that hard. :-(

 

[ShintaiDK]

Most modern IGPs support 4K with full playback support. Haswell, Kaveri etc. However they only do so on HDMI at 30Hz. No IGP or dGPU supports 60hz yet on HDMI at 4K.

The cheapest solution would be a Haswell Celeron, best solution without a dGPU would be a higher Haswell or Kaveri. Avoid Kabini, its way too slow and perform is like a netbook. Obsolete from the start.

 

[icrf]

That's what I thought would be the case, but I can't find any documentation that says so. If I pick up a Celeron Asus Chromebox, will it output 4k at 30Hz over HDMI? That's all I'm really after.

 

[EliteRetard]

AM1?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7945/...rd-preview-asus-asrock-gigabyte-msi-biostar/4

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7945/...rd-preview-asus-asrock-gigabyte-msi-biostar/6

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7945/...rd-preview-asus-asrock-gigabyte-msi-biostar/7

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7945/...rd-preview-asus-asrock-gigabyte-msi-biostar/8

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7945/...d-preview-asus-asrock-gigabyte-msi-biostar/10

5350:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113364

 

[ShintaiDK]

That's what I thought would be the case, but I can't find any documentation that says so. If I pick up a Celeron Asus Chromebox, will it output 4k at 30Hz over HDMI? That's all I'm really after.

It should since its Haswell based. But make sure you check the specs of the Chromebox first.

http://promos.asus.com/us/chrome-os/chromebox/

(4k UHD playback support with Intel Core i3 SKU only)

 

[icrf]

Bummer, there's a significant price bump to go to an i3 over Celeron ($180 to $370), and beyond 4k support, there's 300 Mhz CPU, 2 GB RAM, SMT, and a wireless keyboard/mouse. That's not a lot for doubling the price.

Looking at something like a NUC or a Brix, they're not any more cost-competitive to go with an i3. They offer a little more flexibility, I'd end up with a much larger and faster SSD and could keep a memory slot open if I only wanted 4 GB right now over what I could get in a Chromebox, but end up costing more for it. I guess with a NUC, I could even run Windows on it if I'm treating it as a desktop for work for now.

Since Asus says the Chromebox i3 supports 4k video, is that purely a function of the GPU on the i3 itself, or is it related to anything else they may add on? I get confused when I read things like the Intel NUC doc that mentions 4k on the DP line item, as if it's not supported over HDMI. Or could that be to make sure people didn't think they'd get 4k 60 Hz out of HDMI?

GRAPHICS
• Intel® HD Graphics 4400
• One Mini DisplayPort* 1.2 supporting ultra-high definition 4K displays and multiple monitor functionality
• One Mini HDMI* 1.4a port

Beyond that, the question is, how well does a Chromebox run XBMC compared to a NUC? I've heard of people having issues with both. Looks like I'll end up closer to $400, which I suppose isn't obscenely higher than the $200-300 range I was initially aiming for.

I guess now that it looks like my minimum price range is that much higher, I should probably look into building a Mini-ITX, too. I could probably get a quieter system that way. Many people seem to complain about fan noise on the NUC.

I may end up talking myself out of this entirely. It was supposed to be a cheap way to get something now, and if it turns out to be less and less cheap, why am I bothering with a stopgap?

 

[you2]

You can build a mini-itx system with g3220 which is a bit faster than mobile i3 for approx $300 (depending on exact components and if you wait for sales). I can't promise the g3220 will run 4K but a quick web search suggest it will. While it is a haswel part (1150 board) vaguely I think the celeron have a slightly slower gpu than the i3 (I think it has ivy but not 100% sure). Anyways there is a steep premium going from mini-itx to nuc for almost no performance gain (the g3220 is significantly faster than u2995 part in the asus chromebook; but it draws a bit more power - the system I built peaks out at around 65 watt but typically use closer to 35-40 watt. Even with an i3 this system woud run clsoer to $350 (the g3220 is typically $60 but frequently on sale and microcenter (if you are near one) has it a bit lower than the typical sale price. 1150 mini-itx MB is around $75; case + psu another 80; toss in g.skill ram and whatever sd is on sale (I've been using crucial m500) and yuo have a system - though I suppose you will want more disk space for media (the systems I've been building have been more web browsing ecentric). One of the limits if your 4k display device is a tv is that hdmi on the current motherboard will limit 4k@30hz. If you are using a monitor make sure the mb you purchase has display port (oddly some of the mini-itx boards are missing 'key' display options).

 

[icrf]

I'm definitely aware of the refresh rate limitation at 4k over HDMI 1.x, but that's what I plan on using. My storage is also in a NAS so I don't anything local more than a small SSD.

I'll look into building a system. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having some kind of add-in card space, though I don't plan to use in initially. I expect the system to last long enough I may want real 60 Hz 4k support, which should eventually be available in small, cheap, low-power GPUs probably available in low-profile cards with HDMI 2.0 support.

 

[jaydee]

If you re-think the 4k HDMI 39" TV as a monitor, your options open up considerably. Reviews of that TV are underwhelming, despite the "great price" for the specs.

 

[icrf]

I'm after the size and resolution more than anything. My old display was a Dell 3007WFP, so a 30" 2560x1600. Granted, that was a nice IPS panel, and I'm under no illusion that the 4k TV will be as nice. I'm not a graphic artist, so the colors shouldn't bother me. I just want the desktop space and detail. Viewing angles should also be decent on the TV, too.