4890 (Toxic edition) or EVGA GTX 285? Money is no object!

[sofakng]

Right now I have the Sapphire 4890 Toxic Edition (it's overclocked to 960 MHz) but I'm really disappointed in a couple of things:

1) Drivers have terrible support for game profiles. I can explain further, but basically they are unusable.

2) No PhysX or CUDA. These might be minor, but they are still advantages to the nVidia cards.

3) nVidia 3D Vision looks neat, but it's probably something I'll never be able to use.

Now, the 4890 is definitely cheaper. In fact, I paid $250 for the 4890 and the EVGA GTX 285 will cost about $305.

I couldn't care less about the $55 price difference.

However, it seems like the 4890 (overclocked) beats the GTX 285 in almost every benchmark.

I want to return the 4890 and get the GTX 285 but I'm just not sure it's worth it. However, like I said above, please don't factor in the price as it's not an issue for me (at least when comparing these two cards!)

Can anybody help me out?

 

[Eureka]

The 4890 is faster than the 285, and you can OC it even further with the Toxic cooler.

Or for performance, 4890s are dropping in price, pick up a second one for Crossfire and blow everything away.

 

[Qbah]

You won't notice any difference by going from a HD4890 @ 960MHz to 1GHz. Pure performance between the GTX285 and HD4890 OC is comparable. The only thing that can give you measurable difference is PhysX (from the list you've given). If money is not an objection and you want to try out PhysX (have or will buy games using it), get a GTX285 OC - it's the fastest single GPU on the market.

Also, you want easy game profiles, something that the card from nV will allow you to do too.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

If you have a second PEG slot you could install an Nvidia card (with Windows 7/XP) and get your PhysX fix.

If I'm reading this right, I don't see a need for you to upgrade right now. If there is a specific game you need performance in, then look at benchmarks and make a choice since determining which card is faster varies game by game. Overall the two cards are equal, although if you do get the GTX285 you could certainly overclock so that it performs better.

 

[sofakng]

It's not really a matter of upgrading...

I've just purchased the 4890 (Toxic) and am thinking about returning it for a GTX 285 instead.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: sofakng
1) Drivers have terrible support for game profiles. I can explain further, but basically they are unusable.

2) No PhysX or CUDA. These might be minor, but they are still advantages to the nVidia cards.

3) nVidia 3D Vision looks neat, but it's probably something I'll never be able to use.

Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind about wanting an nVidia card. You just want someone to confirm before you spend the money, which you say is no object

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: sofakng
1) Drivers have terrible support for game profiles. I can explain further, but basically they are unusable.

I'm curious, what do you mean by this? I don't think I understand what you mean by game profiles. Do you mean having different games run with different driver settings for things like AA, AF, etc.?

 

[sofakng]

Well, I just want some opinions on the two cards if money was taken out of the equation.

In my mind, it seems to come down to this:

4890 @ 1 GHz is faster than a GTX 285 even when the GTX 285 is overclocked (unless you get a rare card that can overclock by a ton or change the voltage, etc).

GTX 285 has better game profile support, PhysX (which is minor), CUDA (mostly minor), and 3D Vision (which I probably won't ever get to use).

I think the big thing about the 4890 is the game profile support. I know that ATI Tray Tools could work but it doesn't work with Vista x64 (unless you enable test driver signing, etc, etc)

 

[sofakng]

Originally posted by: vj8usa

Originally posted by: sofakng
1) Drivers have terrible support for game profiles. I can explain further, but basically they are unusable.

I'm curious, what do you mean by this? I don't think I understand what you mean by game profiles. Do you mean having different games run with different driver settings for things like AA, AF, etc.?

Yeah, I'm talking about forcing specific games to use AA, AF, etc.

For example, you can setup a game profile which forces 4x MSAA and 16x AF. In order to use these settings you need to have CCC create a desktop shortcut for you which will automatically change your settings and then launch your game.

Ok, that's not too bad but then once you exit the game the settings are still at 4x MSAA and 16x AF! That means if you play another game without changing back to your "default" profile than you are still using the forced 4x MSAA settings.

You also can't force specific settings for Steam games either with the Catalyst Control Panel.

 

[sofakng]

To make things even more complicated, check out this deal: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...0252&prodlist=celebros

HIS 4890 for $160 after rebate minus $30 if you use eBillMe.

Total for two HIS 4890 = $310 shipped.

However, my P5B Deluxe only supports one 16x and one 4x card. Doh!!

 

[Eureka]

Originally posted by: sofakng

Originally posted by: vj8usa

Originally posted by: sofakng
1) Drivers have terrible support for game profiles. I can explain further, but basically they are unusable.

I'm curious, what do you mean by this? I don't think I understand what you mean by game profiles. Do you mean having different games run with different driver settings for things like AA, AF, etc.?

Yeah, I'm talking about forcing specific games to use AA, AF, etc.

For example, you can setup a game profile which forces 4x MSAA and 16x AF. In order to use these settings you need to have CCC create a desktop shortcut for you which will automatically change your settings and then launch your game.

Ok, that's not too bad but then once you exit the game the settings are still at 4x MSAA and 16x AF! That means if you play another game without changing back to your "default" profile than you are still using the forced 4x MSAA settings.

You also can't force specific settings for Steam games either with the Catalyst Control Panel.

Hmm, I'm unfamiliar with game profiles... what's the advantage of using this over in-game settings? Wouldn't it be easier to just set it in the game and let that take over?

Also, if you need some comparisons with the 4890/285/275:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3539&p=17

 

[MarcVenice]

Is this a joke? How many games do you have that don't have their own profiles, so you have to force it manually? I doubt you can't name more then 3.

You aknowledge the fact the HD 4890 OC is pretty much equal to a GTX285, say physx is only a minor thing and you won't use 3d vision, yet you want to go through the hassle of returning a good card AND pay 55$ more, just to get a GTX285? Coz you don't like using the ingame settings for graphics?

 

[sofakng]

@Eureka: Thanks for the link but that only shows a stock 4890 so it's not a good comparison.

I always prefer to use in-game settings but a lot of games just don't have them. For example, Overlord 2 (which I just purchased on Steam) doesn't have any in-game settings for AA/AF so it must be forced. Other games (ie. Psychonauts, which I know is older) just has an Antialiasing On/Off setting but you cant' specify what level or AF settings.

I don't know the exact games off the top of my head but it seems quite common for a game to not have AA/AF settings. Why it's like this, I have no idea...

Also, it's no hassle for me to return a card. NewEgg is excellent with returns. The extra $55 isn't that much for me so if all other things are equal, I'd rather have the nVidia card for game profiles, physx, and other stuff I mentioned. However, I posted here to get other opinions...

 

[Mango1970]

The only other thing to consider is that I have noted by playing at my bud's house that his GTX285 is quieter and runs cooler on his one machine than his other machine which he has a 4890. However his version of the 4890 is not the toxic. Anyhow he also mentioned he has less issues with his Nvidia drivers and also uses the codec CoreAVC Core codec which uses Cuda for decoding... I know that was his consideration when he bought that card.

 

[Wreckage]

Well an overclocked 285 will beat an overclocked 4890.

In fact here's a review of the toxic and the ASUS TOP has no problem beating it.
http://www.overclockersclub.co...890_toxic_vaporx/7.htm

Throw in PhysX, CUDA, Ambient Occlusion, better image quality, better drivers, you should be very happy with the upgrade.

 

[KingstonU]

Originally posted by: Eureka
The 4890 is faster than the 285, and you can OC it even further with the Toxic cooler.

Or for performance, 4890s are dropping in price, pick up a second one for Crossfire and blow everything away.

This

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: sofakng
Ok, that's not too bad but then once you exit the game the settings are still at 4x MSAA and 16x AF! That means if you play another game without changing back to your "default" profile than you are still using the forced 4x MSAA settings.

I think you can use ATI Tray Tools to do this. If you already have the card then I say keep it. If you were deciding between both cards new then I'd say 285 purely for the better customer support and warranty from eVGA.

 

[sofakng]

ATI Tray Tools seems really great, but it doesn't work on Vista x64 unless you disable driver signing (which forces Windows to display "TEST" on all four corners all the time) which is actually opening up a security hole (among other problems).

If ATI Tray Tools had a signed x64 driver than I might consider keeping the 4890 since it seems to provide all the things I want, but since it's not I'll probably go with the EVGA.

 

[TemjinGold]

Since money is no object, swap. If you don't like the 285, swap back.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: sofakng
ATI Tray Tools seems really great, but it doesn't work on Vista x64 unless you disable driver signing (which forces Windows to display "TEST" on all four corners all the time) which is actually opening up a security hole (among other problems).

If ATI Tray Tools had a signed x64 driver than I might consider keeping the 4890 since it seems to provide all the things I want, but since it's not I'll probably go with the EVGA.

Try this: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=275261

 

[sofakng]

Yeah, I saw that too but you need to disable UAC and windows defender.

Plus, they guy doesn't provide the source code which I don't like...

 

[TC91]

I haven't posted here in a while but I would do the swap since you say you are able to return the 4890 and you also say that money is no object . Otherwise then it is probably not worth the hassle unless you have a buyer or something for that 4890.

I have to agree completely with the comment regarding the game profiles, what a joke they are in the catalyst control centre. It was one of the many many many issues I had with my 4870 1GB which I ended up selling a couple months ago in April and grabbed an EVGA GTX 285 . Haven't had any issues nor regrets since. However, my vanilla 285 doesn't OC very well so you might want to grab a factory OCed part if you want more speed.

Best of luck with your choice.

Edit: 1000th post

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Well an overclocked 285 will beat an overclocked 4890.

In fact here's a review of the toxic and the ASUS TOP has no problem beating it.
http://www.overclockersclub.co...890_toxic_vaporx/7.htm

Throw in PhysX, CUDA, Ambient Occlusion, better image quality, better drivers, you should be very happy with the upgrade.

I own a multitude of nvdia graphics cards and zero AMD cards, and I completely diagree with you. I say "throw out" Ambient occlusion, better image quality, better drivers leaving Phsyx and Cuda, you just might be satisfied with the side step if you can get over the lack of directx 10.1.

I realize that having directx 10.1 is a lackluster feature since the only game off the top off my head that uses it is Stalker clear sky. However the same can be said about some of the features you touted so i felt the need include a useless bonus that the AMD cards have.

 

[sandorski]

Way back when I used a Third Party App to make Shortcut Profiles for my Voodoo 5 5500. I don't recall what it was called, but am thinking such an App still exists for current cards.

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: sofakng
Yeah, I saw that too but you need to disable UAC and windows defender.

Plus, they guy doesn't provide the source code which I don't like...

I'm using the ATI tray tools (on vista 32), it's got a neat feature that you can set it so it overclocks the card before a game starts, then underclocks it after the game is done. My 4850 used to idle close to 100W (total system power), with this feature I underclocks it and it's about 85W in 2D. This is all done automatically. my advice is to skip CCC if you going ATI just get the ATI tray tool, that get ya stronger profiling ability than even NV app center.

Actually this is my fist ATI card, been an NV fan for years, just want to try it out to see what the raves about. so far, I feel ATI card is less frills (no cuda//phyx etc), excellent overclocking potential (runnning at about +10% core, +20% mem no problem) and get a little more for the cash. Only down side is you need to setup the system yourself to get the full power of the card. on other hand NV has the nicer app center, excellent for people who are not going to DIY. Oh don't forget ATI's DX10.1 support, some games actually support it, but that's not too much.