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460 vs 560?

Which card to go for?

  • 460

  • 560

  • I have a better idea.


Results are only viewable after voting.

anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
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mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
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The one at Newegg has a rebate as well, which brings it down to $129.99.

OP, what resolution are you running?
He said it was the thinkpad x201t which according to amazon is "LCD Native Resolution: 1280 x 800" Both cards are overkill IMHO unless you are hooking up to an external 1080p monitor.
 

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
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Both are overkill, but IMO you should get the best that you can afford.
 

nanaki333

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2002
3,772
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get 2x 460s for a little bit more than the 560. better to have the performance and not need it, than need it, and not have it :)
 

anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
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@ Firebird and mnewsham:

I will not be piping the signal back into the laptop.

Essentially, this setup utilizes an express card slot adapter (1x speed) and then connects that to the video card. The video card will be powered by a PSU that I have lying around (though I could use a laptop power adapter if I used a low-wattage card). I will then have the option to use the internal LCD, or use an external monitor.

I will use an external monitor. Since expresscard is only 1x, I'm already taking enough of a performance hit. I would like to run @ the highest resolution possible, but in reality I doubt that I would be able to run most games at 1080p.

Couple guys with similar laptops are reporting 3DMark scores ~12,000 with a 460; a massive improvement over the Intel HD chip in my lappy.

@almighty.peanut:

This is for a laptop. I can only have a one card solution.
 
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notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
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He's using a tablet/laptop with some kind of external dock that accepts video cards. I'd like to see a picture of the dock setup to a external monitor. -found one :)

 

nanaki333

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2002
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i should really read the entire OP. i didn't even read the part where you said thinkpad. that's freaking NEAT! i'd go for the 460 though. not worth the price premium for, as you said ~25% performance at 1080P.
 

anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
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@notty

You got it!

That big card is for the vid card and the smaller one is to turn the psu on, because two leads have to close a circuit for power to flow. Usually this is done by the mobo, but obviously there isn't one involved here. (alternatively you can simply use a paperclip)
 
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notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
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I'd go with the best deal on a gtx 460, because as you mentioned, you have a bottleneck with the link speed, so performance after a certain point will be held back.
 

anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
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And I don't have to pay CA tax @ Amazon.

However, you are wrong on the specs (or rather Amazon is): here is the card @ Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-390-_-Product

However, I get some free games for the MSI card (that are included in the cost of the card) @ Newegg. ;)

Another benefit of the MSI one is that it looks nicer and should keep cooler. Lastly, the MSI card is cheaper off the bat (which helps if there are rebate issues). Not to mention Newegg's impeccable support and fast shipping. Overall, seems like a better deal even though I have to pay tax.

Another thing: these cards are all readily overclockable. I can push any of them to 900, especially considering that they won't be in a case.
 
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Seero

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
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This is the most high tech DIY thread I have seen here.:thumbsup:

Note that this isn't my expertise, so don't take what i said as truth without verification. It is a theory of mine.

Assuming you are connecting to PCMCIA, then you don't need any video card that requires external power supply as the bandwidth on PCMCIA is only 132mb/sec, which is about half the bandwidth of a PCIe 1.0x1. PCIe 2.0x1 = 500mb/sec, and you need x16 lanes to completely utilize GTX460.

Depending on games, some can't saturate 4 lanes, some utilize all 16 lanes. Clearly the bottleneck will be on your DIY connector and not on the card itself.

I'm don't think Optimus will work on external vcards as Optimus itself is highly specific towards the internal video card.

IMO anything requires an external power is probably an overkill for vidock, meaning 430 is good enough. 460 if you must choose between the 2 cards, but i will be very surprised to see if the practical performance is better than 430.

Again, I am not an expert on those so I can be way off.
 
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notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
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I wrote 'cheap' , but I was also thinking of looks and the twin frzr looks cool :), . Outside of a case its slower running fans will also be very quiet.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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Assuming you are connecting to PCMCIA, then you don't need any video card that requires external power supply as the bandwidth on PCMCIA is only 132mb/sec, which is about half the bandwidth of a PCIe 1.0x1. PCIe 2.0x1 = 500mb/sec, and you need x16 lanes to completely utilize GTX460.
This allmost ^^^, :)

It depends on his chipset and if he has the 2.0 or the 1.0 output speed.

Here is some very interesting reads about this subject, I was gonna do the same thing with my laptop.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-diy-vidock-experiences.html

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/397667-lets-figure-out-how-make-diy-vidock.html

Edit since the gtx460 and gts450 kit are about the same price, I would just go the overkill route and grab the gtx460.
the gtx560 is way way overkill and not worth it.

Edit 2 : What kind of Cpu do you have in that laptop? A core i5 @ 1.1?
 
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anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
136
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@ Seero, this isn't actually very complicated. I have already tried it is as a proof of concept with a 9800 GT from another computer, and it worked fine. It was literally plug and play. I simply need to put my computer to sleep, plug it in, and then resume the computer. The external display was powered by the external GPU, and the internal display was powered by the Intel HD chip. This was done with Windows 7 and I only had to pay for a ~$90 part.

Now, to explain my current solution:

As I mentioned earlier, I'm utilizing the expresscard slot not a PC card slot. Expresscard is essentially a PCIe x1 slot due to its direct connection to the system bus over a PCI Express ×1 lane. This is the reason why everything works plug and play. To Windows, this is no different then a desktop video card. It cannot differentiate between the link speeds, or rather, doesn't care. Drivers start installing automatically, and games figure out what to do from there.

With regards to the power supply, I need to power the card, therefore I need to use an external PSU. All cards need a PSU, because the laptop doesn't provide power over the slot. Furthermore, expresscard doesn't even have that capability (and neither does my laptop's PSU).

About link speed:

Okay, here is where things get tricky. I am currently connect by x1, which means I get roughly 50% of the performance that I would get connected via a standard x8 or x16 desktop mobo (no cards really need the extra bandwidth provided by x16 yet). This scaling is irregardless of the card. However, as with any PC connected device, there are diminishing returns.

PCIe 2.0 x1 will likely never happen on laptops due to USB 3.0. Expresscard 2.0 was slated to come out late 2010, but was overshadowed by USB.

Now, I can increase my performance by using tweaked drivers and making tweaks of my own like disabling hypermemory and HDMI sound (about 15% better). So I personally get 65% of the performance of a desktop card. I wish there was a way to utilize the Lenovo dock connector at the bottom of my computer, but there isn't.

Some people have done even better by using their wifi's mPCIe slot to get an x2 link. That would provide nearly 90% of the performance after tweaks.

It would be interesting to see what can be done with the Intel Thunderport technology when that gets rolled out in PCs, since the data can simultaneously travel both ways.

I need to use an Nvidia card because the Nvidia Optimus driver allows you to clone to your internal LCD if you have an Intel 4500MHD/HD chip when using a Nvidia 4xx or 5xx card. Then means that I could use the internal display for a LAN party situation.

Hope I cleared some things up. :)

@happy_medium:

I have the i7 640L. If I remember correctly, it runs at 2.0, and can turbo up higher. It's also a ULV proc. I know that this will not be the bottleneck for sure.

I'm sure that games will run even nicer on the x220 (or whatever it will be called) with Sandy Bridge.

Other specs that matter for gaming: 8GB RAM (total overkill, but got a deal) and 750 GB HDD (I need the space).

A side note: That RAM is amazing. Once Windows loads up the standby memory, I can open all my most used applications as quickly as I would with an SSD. Windows 7 does some amazing stuff with a lot of RAM.

I also think that Lenovo does something proprietary to Windows, because a loaded install loads quicker on my laptop than a fresh install on a significantly faster laptop. My drive also runs @ 5,200 RPM, though it is an adv. sector drive.
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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And I don't have to pay CA tax @ Amazon.

However, you are wrong on the specs (or rather Amazon is): here is the card @ Newegg:
One site says 800 mhz, one site says 700mhz,,,,.

I did not notice the difference.
 
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anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
136
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Yeah, Amazon has a conflicting description. They say 700 mhz, and then right below that they state 800 mhz overclock. Not your fault, I've noticed that on products that aren't very popular, Amazon will sometimes have conflicting descriptions because they can be written by Marketplace sellers, while most other websites have those specs written by the actual company representative or an employee.

This is a damn fine deal:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0341905
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-116-_-Product
 
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anishannayya

Member
Jun 10, 2008
136
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@Dacalo, I think that the performance is more important than the amount of RAM, especially at lower resolutions. That chip is essentially a faulty 460. Rather than toss it out, they sell it as a different chip. Overall, a good buy; but I think the other chips are a better deal.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
475
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So I personally get 65% of the performance of a desktop card.
The question is 65% performance of what desktop card?

If your only getting 65% performance from a gtx460, then a gtx560 willl only use 45% of it's power. See what I'm getting at? That would be a waste.

Now if your only getting 65% performance of a gtx460 because of a slots bandwidth limitation, then why not save a few bucks (if you can) and grab a gts450 1gb (35% slower) which might perform the same?
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,143
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I think that with the severe limitations you mentioned, a gtx 460 768 would be great for you. I don't know what they cost now, but I've seen them 3 or 4 times down to $90 on various sites over the past few months.
 

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